Remember to smile
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Its looks unique. Nice work.
I was thinking. What would Arab gunpowder look like in t2 and t3? The Swedish stick gun from 1400 and central European bombard/mortar doesn't blend in too well into Northern-African/Mesopotamia in my humble opinion. I'm not educated on the gunpowder in the area, but in general terms, what do we know?
~Wille
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Originally Posted by Finn
Campidoctor
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
From the little I have specifically researched into gunpowder weapons, they seem to look relatively similar to european models:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
[this is an ottoman but ottoman and mamluk equippment overlaps a lot].
Earlier guns like Midfa' are also similar to european models:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
There is ample evidence that the Mamluk Sultanate casted cannons themselves and used them in naval and siege combat, but production varied greatly among individual rulers. As a rule the Mamluks were hesitant about artillery, but they absolutely knew of and how to use it. I can't find many pictures of period artillery from the Mideast that aren't ottoman but I doubt they would appear any different. The cannon and mortars used for this preview might eventually be changed to more region appropriate models but thats not a very high priority to me right now.
Main Source: Gunpowder and Firearms in the Mamluk Kingdom: A Challenge to a Medieval Society, by David Ayalon
Remember to smile
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
What makes you so certain?
With the context in mind, I'd share your sentiment.
~Wille
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Campidoctor
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
I'm not very certain, but barring much evidence for or against i'm taking what I see as the simplest option until further evidence confirms or denies.
The Mamluks on occasion shipped ottoman cannons when they couldn't match manufacturing expectations, and given the mamluk distrust of artillery I doubt they would put much effort towards developing uniquely indigenous designs rather than just copying existing designs from more gunpowder friendly-states. Its just a hunch really, and since I am not developing the Mamluks but rather a hypothetical Abbasid Caliphate in the 1400s I'm not bound much by that level of historicity. Its just what would be plausible.
Senator
Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Looks nice
Nice work DF22
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Alexandros
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
What is ur next project!?
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Weren't the Mameluk gunner regiments composed entirely of black African slaves?
Campidoctor
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
At a certain point yes, but this is not the Mamluk Egyptian roster, this is a Abbasid roster if the Abbasids had survived through to the 1400s. Some of the specifically Egyptian elements of the Mamluk Sultanate are left out or replaced with Iraqi and Syrian elements to provide a more plausible alternative.
The truth is the Abbasid t2 and t3 rosters are quite speculative because of real history and how the mod must account for a campaigns timeline not necessarily following real history. Its just a reality of the way the game is played.
Civis
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
There were also Ayyubid qara-ghulams (black ghulams) of African origin as far as I know, they were cavalry though.
It is also said that the term "qara-ghulam" was used to refer to mamluk/ghulam trainees (at least the Seljuks used the term that way) and had nothing to do with African slaves. So I'm not sure.
Last edited by Danishmend; July 31, 2017 at 04:34 PM.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
I am pretty sure that the Ayyubids abolished all black regiments employed by the Fatimids, except of a couple of mercenaries.
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Why should the Zagwe have anything in common with either of them? They are located on the other quarter of the African continent and belong to an entirely different culture.
Alexandros
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Guess the Ayyubids wil take the place of the "Abbasid" Turkic and Circassian Mamluks!?
Civis
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
sorry but what are the barud engineers?
Campidoctor
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Naffatum essentially. Barud was the word used to refer to explosive weaponry in the 14th century, superseding naft.
Alexandros
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
What about Zagwe? Did they preserved a system similar to the Fatimids or where they Ayyubid in nature!?
Alexandros
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
I meant Makuria/Nubia not Zagwe/Abyssinia/Aethiopia sorry.
Basically... will Makuria represent the Fatimid early struggle of reconquering Egypt with their Nubian Mamluks!?
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Ehm the mod starts in 1212, so the Fatimids are gone since 40 years. Also, there are no sources attesting a Muslim-Egyptian influence on Makurian military organization nor are there sources attesting a slavery-system in Christian Nubia that is anywhere as extensive as in Muslim societies, so Ghulams and the like can be pretty much ruled out.
Alexandros
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Yeah but because the Fatimid "usurpers" together with their loyal Nubian Mamluks and the allied Nubian nobility tried to retake Egypt very few time before our timeframe, the 1200's, I think this would be the best way to represent them, and from my point of view, the only valid option for a Nubian Empire or should I say Fatimid Empire!? The Solomonic line of the Abyssinians is a different story mainly because of Aksum and their heritage.
Campidoctor
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
after a absurdly belated update, finally added the missing pics for the Julban and Qaranis mamluks. Consider the Abbasids functionally done for now
Senator
Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Abbasid Caliphate
Nice man
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