Medieval Kingdoms Total War: The Duchy of Lorraine

**Azrien Fox** · June 12, 2017, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Knight2708

Great work, it really is incredible how far this faction has come, the units get better with every update. My only complaint is that the pavise spears for tier 2 still seem a bit too heavily armored, they look more like a tier 3 unit tbh. In this period I'd expect more of a mix of brigandines and gambesons and less armor on the extremities, especially on the legs. This would also better show the transition between the 3 tiers, as right now the tier 2 pavise spears look pretty similar to the tier 3 version.

Yeah i see what you mean. I'll put in some gambesons and maybe give more of the transitional armor kneepads I use on other tier 2 units instead of full leg armor. I will however leave the armor shown on the one guy in the yellow brigandine on the far right, to show a variety in armor quality in the unit.
I'm pretty sure other than that, I could maybe change helmets a bit, but I think they should be fine. Ive got mostly bascinets, and few eye hole kettles and chapel de fers here and there. I could maybe give them some other kettle helms and maybe some more chapel de fers. Could that help show a transition in armor tech?p

**Knight2708** · June 12, 2017, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Azrien Fox

Yeah i see what you mean. I'll put in some gambesons and maybe give more of the transitional armor kneepads I use on other tier 2 units instead of full leg armor. I will however leave the armor shown on the one guy in the yellow brigandine on the far right, to show a variety in armor quality in the unit.
I'm pretty sure other than that, I could maybe change helmets a bit, but I think they should be fine. Ive got mostly bascinets, and few eye hole kettles and chapel de fers here and there. I could maybe give them some other kettle helms and maybe some more chapel de fers. Could that help show a transition in armor tech?p

Sounds good. I'd also remove the bascinets with visors and reduce the number of eye hole kettles as those are more of a 15th century thing afaik.

**Visarion** · June 10, 2017, 06:43 PM

Great stuff... you never cease to amaze me...

Two things still... head piece of horses of late Coutiliers

Lack of shoelds or changing animation for Bas-Rhine Militz

**Azrien Fox** · June 10, 2017, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Visarion

Two things still... head piece of horses of late Coutiliers

Wait, Im pretty sure we talked about the high Coutiliers? The late ones are staying as is.

Originally Posted by Visarion

Lack of shoelds or changing animation for Bas-Rhine Militz

Let me say it again: animation change has no effect, and I didn't intend to have shields on that unit. They are staying as-is, but I may put shields in the future. I cant really find any evidence for shields and pikes used in the 13th century, and they are going to be a throwaway type unit, so I think shields would not fit.

**Visarion** · June 10, 2017, 07:15 PM

Well at leadt do smth about thst late horse headpiece... modify it somehow

**Azrien Fox** · June 12, 2017, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by Visarion

Well at leadt do smth about thst late horse headpiece... modify it somehow

Well I really wanted to keep them how they were without "modifying them," but I could also add a gothic chaffron and maybe add some gothic horse armor as well to the unit.

The thing was with the armor, I notice that a lot of the manuscripts in 15th century France show colored horse chaffrons being used by both knights and lower nobility, so I am using a default chaffron to show that they can afford the minimal horse armor, but not enough to personalize it.

**Azrien Fox** · June 12, 2017, 04:06 AM

Updated the Guild Halbardde and Hommes d'Hand Late unit photos. I tried out a way to capture more guys in the photo by putting the unit in loose formation, so hopefully it doesnt look silly to have them randomly in loose formation. I think soon Ill be able to get both Rudolph and Rene onto the preview, they would be a bit of a WIP.

Something else Im thinking is maybe making a variant of Rudolph of Valiant as an on-foot unit. Rudolph participated in a lot of battles in his life, and I thought since he seemed to be pretty experienced in war, I might put Rudolph in a mounted bodyguard as well as a dismounted polearm bodyguard. What are your guys' thoughts on this? Lemme know!

**Visarion** · June 12, 2017, 08:46 AM

Yeah... anytging but just don't leave that head piece without barding... it looks like it's floating or smth... very goofy

**Slytacular** · June 12, 2017, 05:14 PM

Those actually become a mid 14th century thing.

**Azrien Fox** · June 13, 2017, 02:49 AM

I updated the hommes d'armes, hommes d'armes montes, crossbowmen, and the urban militia. I need to update the photo of the crossbowmen using their shields, so Ill do that fairly soon.

**Knight2708** · June 13, 2017, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Azrien Fox

I updated the hommes d'armes, hommes d'armes montes, crossbowmen, and the urban militia. I need to update the photo of the crossbowmen using their shields, so Ill do that fairly soon.

The new hommes d'armes look incredible! I do think that the urban militia could use some slightly more diverse shields though. Adding in some of the colors and insignia of some of the cities from the areas would be a great improvement imho.

**Visarion** · July 03, 2017, 04:44 PM

Yeah I do like qhat u did 2 the late coutiliers...

Hmmm... what s cookin now?

Can't wait to fight in the Burgundian wars... hope Lorraine can recruit lots of Swiss AoR... btw are you responsible for Savoy as well!? Hope it will be a unique faction... well distinquished...

Wouldn't a independent Duchy of Guelder be a better option than Trier!?

Found this interesting book

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...g2O9CcnHY8BD1g

I would recommend you check this site

http://warfare2.netai.net/6C-11C/Moo...lamic_West.htm

Sooo... anything new!?

**Knight2708** · August 15, 2017, 11:56 AM

One thing that I never understood about this faction is why there are so many Alsatian units. By the time of the mod's start date Alsace was part of the Duchy of Swabia and should thus be part of the HRE faction or possibly Sicily, depending on how exactly the Staufer-Welf conflict will be handled. And after the dissolution of the Duchy of Swabia in the mid-late 13th century, Alsace fell apart into a number of smaller factions, some of which later became part of Austria, and that were eventually conquered by France, but as far as I know none of them ever became a part of or joined with Lorraine in the medieval period. Now I am not an expert on this area, so maybe I am missing something, but as far as I am aware it would probably be best to remove Alsace from the unit names and heraldry of this faction.

Aside from that I really think that a lot of these units need some armor reductions. Some of the most obvious examples are the Guild Halbardde, Pavise Lang-Stekke Mann and Hecht de Mann who look more like knights in full plate rather than foot soldiers and militia units. the tier 2 pavise spearmen who look more like a tier 3 unit and the Moselle Merchant Marines who seem rather over-armored for their intended role. Generally there seems to be pretty much a complete lack of any lightly armored units in tier 3 and most non-knightly units could still use slightly less armor here and there.

**Zovf** · August 19, 2017, 11:20 AM

Hello

I am French and Lorrain, I live near Vaudémont (excuse me for my bad English)

I hope that one day the Vaudémont fortress (below) can be seated!

Below is a picture of Rene 2 (carrying the cross of Jerusalem)

Below a link to a blog with an article on the Battle of Nancy (with soldiers and equipment)

http://patrimoine-de-lorraine.blogspot.fr/2011/01/la-bataille-de-nancy-5-janvier-1477.html