v.2.2 Rules Update: Royal Campaigns & Ireland

[Dirty Chai]

Vote above. State reasons why if you vote no or abstain. Open to suggested changes and can be reworked. Feel free to ask questions.

These would all go in a new section, where hopefully one day there will also be rules for France, Scotland, and perhaps Wales.

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Royal Campaigning

~These rules here are meant for campaigning against foreign enemies, but we have decided to let it be general, since it likely requires taxation which the nobility can prevent~ Royal authority has some advantageous abilities due to being the top head of a country and having the wealth and infrastructure necessary to organize on a larger and more efficient scale than a lord randomly calling peasants to arms. From each shire, the crown can raise an indenture (contract) of armies, in addition to calling forth military service from his vassals. The bulk of the crown’s armies will come from indentures, rather than vassals, who will often only bring token forces. An indenture for each shire is worth 100% of all its provinces’ levies, but instead of light infantry and light archers, they are 75 Yeomen Archers and 25 Yeomen Foot each. They also cost £40 for each soldier, rather than £3 each.

Ireland

All NPCs in Ireland get 3x the levy to work with from any owned provinces and also 5x the yearly income with which to have standing troops in case of an invasion by any player-controlled characters or factions. Their levy compositions are always 75% light infantry and 25% archers, rather than the other way around. The Pale: Land Control All player-owned provinces outside “the Pale” (marked above in map) have local Irish clans and populations rooted down that, either de jure or de facto, ignore and disregard the authority of the English lords and the king. Provinces outside the Pale (ie, outside the red lines mapped above): - Do not have levies for players; instead, the local clans, if threatened, have available 3x what the levy would be normally to defend themselves. - Are constrained to 25% income, and the remaining 75% is considered to be in the hands of the local Irish. If threatened, the local clans have 3x that yearly amount available to them at any given time to buy troops to defend themselves with. Attacking and successfully subjugating or moving these Irish clans out of each province individually will remove these limits. But, unless in the Pale, there’s always a yearly chance of these provinces being rolled back to decentralization by Irish clans moving back in or invading. Provinces within the Pale cannot be reduced or constrained to this state, however. Invasions & Raids Each land-holding player character in Ireland (including the King and his land in the Pale) has a chance of being invaded or raided by neighboring clans every year. This base chance is 2/20. If the character is involved in any sort of military actions already, internal or external, or a rebellion has occurred in his territory, then the chance is 8/20. If he has been defeated in battle by any Irishmen in the past two years, then the chance is 12/20. If the character has also centralized any bordering provinces in the past 2 years, then the chance is also 10/20. Always take the higher chance from any of these above scenarios. If an invasion/raid is rolled, then the mods must choose from where (using this map) the Irish are invading/raiding this character’s lands, and the size of the force. The size of the force is determined by the base 100% levies of the provinces the clan or clans might own, multiplied by a D3. Additionally, they will have those provinces’ one year income available to buy more heavier troops for the campaign, to represent the elite warriors of their chieftain or king. The Irish will without fail always move to raid each province before moving onto the next one. Each province they manage to sack will roll back land control to 25% (ie, their clansmen move in) if the character had centralized the sacked province beforehand; however, if they invade any Pale provinces, they will only sack the province. Royal Authority If at any time the King decides to campaign in Ireland or sends a suitable representative to do so (such as a son, a brother, a powerful duke, or the appointed Lord Lieutenant), and the campaign successfully does any of the following.. - subjugates/(re)conquers at least 4 provinces of Irish territory - Forces vassalization on at least 2 powerful clans (such as the O’Neills) - Forces Irish clans out of English territory and centralizes at least 5 provinces Then Royal Authority will be restored for a 1D10+5 of years. During these years, there will be no invasions or raids, and all landed characters will receive full income (but not their levies if they have not centralized). However, attempts by players to attack NPCs who have submitted to the king during this period will be met with pleas by those NPCs for the king to protect them.

[General Brewster]

I'm not against the Irish rules in particular but the boosts the clans get are a little overpowered imo.

[Dirty Chai]

What about 50% limit on income rather than 25%? I think that might lessen a lot of the difficulty here.

Also I'm thinking about ways on how to refine the random invasion rolls. But the general buffs for large NPC clans outside of player control should stay IMO. It should require large armies to conquer those lands.

As a side note, none of this will apply to Butler's Leinster campaign.

[The Mad Skylord]

I think you're going the wrong way way with massive levy armies. Most Irish forces were professional. Gallowglass, kerns and nobles made up Gaelic armies - not peasants.

Thus I think the clans should have access to 1.5x the levy number, with that levy being composed of 25% Gallowglass(Yeoman Foot), 25% Heavy Cavalry(Hobelars, because the Irish didn't use stirrups - their idea of heavy cav was simply armour. They had no way to couche a lance.) And 50% Kerns(30% Levy Infantry and 20% Levy Bows. Kerns actually made up the skirmisher element of an army - they carried slings, bows and javelins as well as their melee weapons. We, however, don't have any way to represent this, so the Kern element should be split between ranged and melee.).

I also think the 25-75% income cap is harsh, at most 25% of wealth lost is reasonable.

[Dirty Chai]

Going to do make another draft tonight, complete redo mostly, stay tuned

[General Brewster]

The income should be player determined with modifiers enacted if you go over 50%. Would be a nice system imo.
Agreed with sky's 1.5 times levy number.

[Dirty Chai]

Okay, so what about this for an outline of a new draft:
- Irish get for every province 150 man levies: 40 Yeomen Foot (Gallowglasses), 40 Hobelars, 50 Levy Infantry (Kerns) and 20 Levy Archers (Kerns)
- Player lords have, on their provinces outside the pale (poss. redo) a land control system: base minimum is 25% income for lord; every +1% above that 25% adds +1 chance to a D100 roll of rebellion (in each province) next year with a base chance of 5/100; if rebellion, the rebellion uses the above mentioned levy; also 6/20 chances of neighboring controlled provinces joining rebellion
- Building tree (expensive) allows you to (individually for each province) put land control up to 100% without rebellion chances
- will have map of Gaelic clans
- player characters get -10 malus on all levy call rolls outside the pale unless centralization building tree maxed out in that province

[Dirty Chai]

Okay, new proposal. Brewster, Xion, and Skylord, please give new input. Does this satisfy?

Ireland

Player characters can only get levies inside the Pale; all owned provinces outside the Pale will not provide levies, unless Royal Authority is in effect (see eponymous section). However, all NPCs in Ireland in any war against PCs get for every province they own: 150 men - 40 Yeomen Foot (Gallowglasses), - 40 Hobelars - 50 Levy Infantry (Kerns) - 20 Levy Archers (Kerns) The Pale Irish Clans circa 1400: Irish clans, kingdoms & lordships As marked above in a map, clans that are encircled with each other by a red border will help each other in case of being attacked by any players. This may represent a kingdom of tributaries or vassals as with the O’Neills, or a network of allies as with the O’Connors of Faly. Thus, if any one of these clans are attacked, every province in that circle still controlled by Irish clans will come to its aid with the above explained Irish armies. Land Control All player-owned provinces outside “the Pale” (marked above in map) have local Irish clans and populations rooted down that, either de jure or de facto, ignore and disregard the authority of the English lords and the king. Thus we have a system that allows player characters to either try and exert authority and rents on tenants, or let live and live. Outside the Pale, all provinces are affected by this system, called Land Control: - Base, Minimum Land Control is always at 25%; this means the lord will always receive at least 25% of the province’s income - If he wants more income, then he must raise it; for each +1% above 25%, this is +1 to a d100 roll for that province next year for a possible rebellion, with 76-100 being a rebellion (see section). We roll these in the yearly threads. If the player wants to indefinitely raise land control in a province with rebellion risk, he has the option to go down this infrastructure tree (for every province individually): I: Land Reassessment (costs £500): raises minimum land control to 40% II. Enforcement of Suzerainty (costs £1000): raises minimum land control 60% III. Court of Justice (costs £1500): raises minimum land control to 80% IV. Rule of Law (costs £2000): maxes out land control; gives you access to English levy in the province (75 levy archers and 25 levy foot) Invasions & Raids For every circled “group” of Irish clans (see the Irish clan map), there is a chance at least one clan from that circle will attack an English neighbor. If a player neighbors them and they rolled a raid or invasion, they will always attack the player over NPCs; they always go for the closest provinces before farther ones.Currently there are 4 circles that border English dominions: Kingdom of Thomond, Kingdom of Faly, the O’Reilly and O’Farrel region, and the Kingdom of Tyrone. For each bordering circle, roll a d100. Below 75 is peace. 76-95 is a raid, 96-100 is an invasion. - Modifiers for this roll are: +10 if a nearby player is at war or on campaign, +10 if a nearby player or otherwise English entity has been defeated in battle by Irishmen, -100 if Royal Authority is in effect - For a raid, randomly pick one of the bordering clans in the circle and send its own small army as a small attack on a neighboring player. - For an invasion, the whole circle is working together under a chieftain or king to invade the English dominions and will have access to most of its provincial armies of that circle The Irish will without fail always move to raid each province before moving onto the next one. Each province they manage to sack will roll back land control to 25% (ie, you lose any land control infrastructure); however, if they invade any Pale provinces, they will only sack the province. If no counter attack or defence comes to retake the provinces, they will try to keep them. Rebellions If a rebellion is rolled in a province (see Land Control section for how), then the province will rise up with these troops: 150 men [40 Yeomen Foot (Gallowglasses), 40 Hobelars, 50 Levy Infantry (Kerns), 20 Levy Archers (Kerns)]. When a rebellion is rolled, neighboring (touching borders) English-held provinces get a D20 roll to determine if they also rise up: 1-5 results in another province rebelling, and its neighboring provinces also in turn undergo the d20. If a province bordering Irish clans rebels, then roll a d20 for each directly bordering clan (not circle) to see if they send a raid-size force to help. 1-5 results in the clan (not the circle) sending its troops to try and take advantage. Royal Authority If at any time the King decides to campaign in Ireland or sends a suitable representative to do so (such as a son, a brother, a powerful duke, or the appointed Lord Lieutenant), and the campaign successfully fills the following requirements... - subjugates/(re)conquers at least 4 provinces of Irish territory - Forces/retrieves vassalization on at least 3 powerful circles (such as the O’Neills) Then Royal Authority will be restored for a 1D5+5 of years. During these years, land control will be raised by a free 25% with no revolt risk and there will be no raids or invasions from clansmen. All "vassal" circles/clans will ask the King and/or Lord Lieutenant for help if they are attacked during this time, but at the end of it will revert back to considering themselves independent.

[The Mad Skylord]

I still think the income is skewed. It's just going to leave us destitute.

If the income stays, I think there should be an Irish building tree that provides free upkeep troops so we can actually do stuff.

[General Brewster]

Shouldn't Land Control have a positive effect on income then as well?

[Dirty Chai]

Land Control is designed to prevent player characters in Ireland from being able to project power outside of their own territories from the get go. Can't you agree it's absolutely ridiculous that it's possible for a player to sign up one of the earls and then immediately start trying to eat territory from the Irish?

It doesn't leave you destitute - Butler would still get £900 a year (before the massive bonuses) and Desmond would have £762.5 a year. If I raise the minimum to 50%, then Butler would get £1,800 and Desmond £1,525.

Historically both the clans and the lordships in Ireland in the late medieval period seem entirely focused 90% of the time on just keeping their own territories under control. Conquests/expansions like in the 1100's are rare. Don't pick Ireland to play in because it's secluded away from everyone else and there's lots of NPCs to abuse - Ireland is chaotic, poor, and full of NPCs who will defend themselves. These are the reasons for why I want to penalize Irish landholdings.

What if I just raise the minimum land control to 50%? I don't want to make that any higher because 75% minimum is just a negligible amount.

Or what if I just apply a general -25% malus on all Irish estates permanently?

[Dirty Chai]

The simplest, most reduced nerf I will accept is a permanent 25% reduction on all province income outside the Pale, 150-200% Irish levy armies, and no levies for player characters outside the Pale.

[Dirty Chai]

Pushing this through:

Ireland

Player characters can only get levies inside the Pale; all owned provinces outside the Pale will not provide levies, unless Royal Authority is in effect (see eponymous section). However, all NPCs in Ireland in any war against PCs get for every province they own: 150 men - 40 Yeomen Foot (Gallowglasses), - 40 Hobelars - 50 Levy Infantry (Kerns) - 20 Levy Archers (Kerns) The Pale Irish Clans circa 1400: Irish clans, kingdoms & lordships As marked above in a map, clans that are encircled with each other by a red border will help each other in case of being attacked by any players. This may represent a kingdom of tributaries or vassals as with the O’Neills, or a network of allies as with the O’Connors of Faly. Thus, if any one of these clans are attacked, every province in that circle still controlled by Irish clans will come to its aid with the above explained Irish armies. Invasions & Raids For every circled “group” of Irish clans (see the Irish clan map), there is a chance at least one clan from that circle will attack an English neighbor. If a player neighbors them and they rolled a raid or invasion, they will always attack the player over NPCs; they always go for the closest provinces before farther ones.Currently there are 4 circles that border English dominions: Kingdom of Thomond, Kingdom of Faly, the O’Reilly and O’Farrel region, and the Kingdom of Tyrone. For each bordering circle, roll a d100. Below 85 is peace. 86-95 is a raid, 96-100 is an invasion. - Modifiers for this roll are: +10 if a nearby player is at war or on campaign, +10 if a nearby player or otherwise English entity has been defeated in battle by Irishmen, -100 if clan has been forced to recognize an English authority (kingly or otherwise) within the past decade - For a raid, randomly pick one of the bordering clans in the circle and send its own small army as a small attack on a neighboring player. - For an invasion, the whole circle is working together under a chieftain or king to invade the English dominions and will have access to most of its provincial armies of that circle The Irish will without fail always move to raid each province before moving onto the next one. If no counter attack or defence comes to retake the provinces, they will try to keep them.

It's now just the levy restrictions (no levies outside the Pale) + NPC buffs & invasion chances. No income nerfs are being applied (thus royal authority is redundant).

I'm going to be rethinking the "Royal Campaigning" rules alongside possible new levy rules, so ignore those for now