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Thread: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

  1. #21
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    see the post above yours please
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    I mean what is the map example that alreadyded is looking when he is making his own maps.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    I haven't decided yet, right now the southern regions are just squares so I can get everything else set up. Anyone feel free to post maps/ideas if you want and I will consider them.

  4. #24
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    This looks like an amazing, yet awfully big enterprise!

    Are there things a scrublet like myself (or other folk reading this) could do to aid the project?
    I come armed with dusty lorebooks only, I'm afraid..

  5. #25

    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    I plan to add in historic events for everything worth showing, if anyone wants to help with those. Not a big deal though, I can always just copy/paste stuff off the net if no one wants to help. Faction descriptions will be needed eventually too, but not a priority.

    Posting any lore on these periods is helpful too.

    Edit; The best way to help is to give feedback on bugs and balancing after I release it, that is the only help I expect from anyone.
    Last edited by alreadyded; September 08, 2017 at 08:20 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    Any news?

  7. #27

    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    @alreadyded whats up? havent been on in a while, this second age sounds exciting. How did the first age campaigns end up? PM me a link if you need a tester

    cheers!

  8. #28
    Macilrille's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    Glorfindel returns to Middle-earth to aid the Free Peoples in either SA 800 or sA 1100 (I forget which). This means everybody's darling goldenhaired Balrog-slayer can be included. The two Blue Wizards might also be around, they arrived before the others according to some sources. Some say with Glorfindel, others say alone.

  9. #29
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    Those two matters are intertwined, and both found in HoME 12's "Last Writings" chapters.
    In his final years JRR concluded that Glorfindel of LotR was the same person as the G. of Gondolin (even if he considered this when he began to write FotR).
    At first then he belived G. arrived at the established time of the Istari, ca 1000 of the Third Age. That was soon revisited and changed into the Second Age, possibly ca 1200 but more likely about 1600 SA:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The second essay, Glorfindel II, is a text of five manuscript pages which undoubtedly followed the first at no long interval; but a slip of paper on which my father hastily set down some thoughts on the matter presumably came between them, since he said here that while Glorfindel might have come with Gandalf, 'it seems far more likely that he was sent in the crisis of the Second Age, when Sauron invaded Eriador, to assist Elrond, and that though not (yet) mentioned in the annals recording Sauron's defeat he played a notable and heroic part in the war.'

    ...

    We may then best suppose that Glorfindel returned during the Second Age, before the 'shadow' fell on Numenor, and while the Numenoreans were welcomed by the Eldar as powerful allies.
    His return must have been for the purpose of strengthening Gilgalad and Elrond, when the growing evil of the intentions of Sauron were at last perceived by them.
    It might, therefore, have been as early as Second Age 1200, when Sauron came in person to Lindon, and attempted to deceive Gil-galad, but was rejected and dismissed.

    But it may have been, perhaps more probably, as late as c.1600, the Year of Dread, when Barad-dur was completed and the One Ring forged, and Celebrimbor at last became aware of the trap into which he had fallen.
    For in 1200, though he was filled with anxiety, Gil-galad still felt strong and able to treat Sauron with contempt. Also at that time his Numenorean allies were beginning to make strong permanent havens for their great ships, and also many of them had actually begun to dwell there permanently.

    In 1600 it became clear to all the leaders of Elves and Men (and Dwarves) that war was inevitable against Sauron, now unmasked as a new Dark Lord.
    They therefore began to prepare for his assault; and no doubt urgent messages and prayers asking for help were received in Numenor (and in Valinor). ...


    - Last Writings; Glorfindel

    As he had his eyes on the wizards, and especially the Blue, JRR proposed in a sketch that they might arrived separatley [the "..." here are written by Christopher Tolkien where he had a hard time read to the word(s) in the sketch]:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age.
    Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador.
    But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [? dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.

    - Last Writings; The Five Wizards

    This seems to contradict his story in Unfinished Tales where all Istari were appointed at the same time, and is of course is in opposition to what had been established in LotR, where their arrival was set to about 1000 TA.
    It is unclear whether he did not have this in mind at the time (as he sometimes forgot details), because he as a rule held the published LotR as "canon" and have been seen to reject ideas once he found them contradiciting LotR, or if he did desire to see an actual change for the Blue Wizards on the matter.

    Of game interest is thus that yes, Glorfindel is just to toss in, for sure when starting post 1600 and can be argued for at any start post 1200.
    And if desired, the Blue Wizards may be included; I would not propose it to be considered canon in a lore discourse, but for a game it certainly has the argument quoted above.
    Last edited by Ngugi; October 10, 2017 at 01:21 PM.

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  10. #30
    Macilrille's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    Those seem to have been actually also faction leaders/generals and I personally believe that their rise and fall is what kept Gandalf hiding and working as a "grey eminence", a man-behind-the-Man, an advisor. I very much disagree with KK in including him as a General, as he only takes that role once and only when he has to, otherwise, he works from the shadows (I remove him in my games). Meanwhile Curunir emulates the Blue, become Saruman and gets corrupted. He did not learn from the mistake of others.

    As for their arrival in the Second or Third Ages? I lean towards the Third, but an argument can be made for them as faction leaders in the Second and gamewise it might be more fun gamewise.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.



    The Early Second Age campaign setup so far. The Entpire goes up in flames pretty quick. Mordor gets bigger, other factions get smaller, Numenor saves the day and takes all the land as payment. Second Numenor faction (Aldarion) starts with NW Numenor and a small region on the south coast of Eriador.


    Ideas/suggestions are welcomed. Nothing is final.


    Edit; I do have ideas on my to do list for the wizards in the east and south (basically them becoming faction leader and changing the culture to Middle-men instead of Influenced by Sauron) for the Third Age and I can reuse those for the Late Second Age. Pretty much every little thing to make the Early and Late campaigns different (within reason) will probably be done, so much from the First Age will be used in the Early, and much from the Third will be used for the Late. Stuff from the Fourth Age (mainly region recruitment scripts for the RK) are being used for the two Numenors in the Early and Late, allowing Arnor and Gondor AOR troops.
    Last edited by alreadyded; December 01, 2017 at 04:05 AM.

  12. #32
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    If you like to, you can chose to adhere to the version where the Blue Wizards arrived already in the middle of the Second Age (ca 1500-1600 onwards presumably), and went into ME and did good.
    I wouldn't give it president in a lore discussion compaired to other sources, but once one is aware of that it is a disputed concept, its perfectly valid to argue for and use for a good game's sake. Especially if you do not mind potential conflicts in 'ingame lore' (dunno how your presented the Blue in the TA camapigns).
    The ‘other two’ came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age.
    Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo - Darkness-slayer and East-helper.
    Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir-up rebellion … and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East … They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of the East … who would both in the Second and Third Age otherwise have … outnumbered the West.

    - HoME 12; Late Writings
    Last edited by Ngugi; December 01, 2017 at 06:42 AM.

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  13. #33

    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    My goal with them is to use them to represent the people that didn't join with Sauron, to depict the internal strife of the faction and that it is more the government/people in power that serve Sauron and a different government may not since the people aren't Orcs or evil in themselves just selfish kinda thing. Whether the wizards are with them or against them or on a third side, I can allow for multiple outcomes with scripts that lead down different paths based on decisions to events. Either way the same message gets through. Anything that adds a bit more complexity to those factions and their gameplay is a good thing, I have mainly focused on adding things for them to fight not on making the factions more complex.

    Edit; Even if the wizards do make the faction no longer Influenced by Sauron, that faction will still not be "good" they will continue to hate and fight everyone they should in the lore, it will only have an affect on alignment with Orc factions. They basically will not get lumped in with Orc factions anymore is all, I will try to make them seem like something else a bit more.
    Last edited by alreadyded; December 01, 2017 at 07:11 AM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Dagor Andúnë ~ Second Age Campaigns - A very pleasant way to die.

    Hi. What is your progress with the second age campaing? If you need any unit ideas let me know.

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