Turkey Referendum catastrophe: Erdogan declares victory. End of the Republic?

[bigdaddy1204]

President Erdogan has won the referendum in Turkey, granting vast new executive powers for himself and abolishing what little safeguards were left. He is now free to reign supreme without limit on his power, at least until 2029 and more likely for the remainder of his life.

The victory represents a calamity unprecedented in modern Turkish history, in my opinion. It is nothing less than the end of Turkish civilisation, and its replacement by a foul, vile autocracy which has crushed all dissent and will rule Turkey with an iron fist. This is the end of all hope. Goodbye Turkey. I am sorry to see you go.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tu...-idUSKBN17H0CU

We now descend into the grim and terrible despair of fascism. The future looks bleaker than I can imagine. One can be sure that things will get much, much worse in Turkey in the coming years. I suspect those who can will leave; those behind will suffer a dreadful future. Truly a catastrophe of unmitigated proportions.

[Kyriakos]

So Erdogan officially became sultan just in time for Tamerlane's impending invasion.

More seriously: imo Erdo is a tragic figure, in that while (supposedly or really) he strives to make Turkey stronger etc, in reality he is inviting its own doom.

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

Classic example of Caesarism/Bonapartism if I do say so myself - using a plebiscite to confer extensive executive powers. He's in stellar company now, is Erdogan, alongside Mussolini.

[gastovski]

I'm partying hard in here. Congrats to our first great Sultan. Praise Allah the Great.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Times like these that I'm glad that Turkey didn't join the EU and now they never will.
Turkey will suffer for this and it's people has only itself to blame really even tho I'm sure Erdogan will find someone else to blame for his own actions.
Dictators always do.

[ArBo]

Times like these that I'm glad that Turkey didn't join the EU and now they never will.

Lol, I'd have liked to see Turkey join just for the massive protests that'd burst out all across Europe. No European ever wanted Turkey to be a part of the EU, why the option was even kept open is beyond me.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Lol, I'd have liked to see Turkey join just for the massive protests that'd burst out all across Europe. No European ever wanted Turkey to be a part of the EU, why the option was even kept open is beyond me.

I think it was because they wanted them to move towards a more positive and more open direction thus dangled some shiny in front of them but they went complete opposite instead.
So hey, atleast we can say that we gave them a chance but they screwed it up, so now they can't say that we don't want Turkey in because they are muslim which was a excuse before.

[PointOfViewGun]

3 of the largest cities in Turkey, İstanbul, Ankara and İzmir, voted No. The overall result being Yes is unheard of for any cause, party or otherwise, without winning over such major cities. The uncorfirmed result right now is 51.36% Yes against 48.64% No. The difference is less than 1.5 million votes. These are, of course, not yet legal numbers. There are also a lot of objections for numerous cases of voter fraud.

However, a round of thanks is due:

First of all, to President Erdoğan for violating the Turkish constitution clause of being neutral, using all government resources to campaign for Yes, and most importantly using his executive order powers, that he was legally only allowed to use under a state of emergency and only in service to battle the reasons for having a state of emergency, and relieving Supreme Electoral Council of its duty to regulate equity in media when it comes to the referendum campaigns coverage. Thank you.

Second, of course, the Supreme Electoral Council (SEC). Thank you for changing the rules of the election midway through counting and validating ballots with no SEC seal per request of an AKP member. Thank you.

We, of course, can't forget the EU countries, most importantly, Netherlands and Germany. Thanks to you, and the fuss you created either directly through providing photo opportunities by having your security forces use dogs to chew on fallen Turkish protestors or directly cancelling scheduled gatherings or meetings of AKP members with Turkish citizens living abroad under dubious reasons only a few days before they're scheduled while allowing PKK rallies on your soil, and indirectly by giving AKP the opportunity to use you in the "enemy" rhetoric, abroad votes of Turkish citizens, most being middle or lower class workers who support AKP or Erdoğan (though still only managing to get about 58.66% of No votes in total), increased by about a factor of 4.5, producing about 600 thousand No votes. Thank you.

The biggest thanks, however, goes to over 24.9 million Turkish people who voted Yes in this referendum, for completely disregarding modern democratic values, supporting the very same people under the umbrella of nationalism the same people that banned military to act on terror groups slipping into city centers, for voting on something you can't defend, nor even tried to defend over the course of the referendum campaign process, for voting on something you opposed by a large margin only a year ago, for voting with your pride in mind and not your honor, it's your victory. Thank you.

Thank you all...

Times like these that I'm glad that Turkey didn't join the EU and now they never will.
Turkey will suffer for this and it's people has only itself to blame really even tho I'm sure Erdogan will find someone else to blame for his own actions.
Dictators always do.

By EU officials own confession, they treated Erdoğan like a prince, and postponed a EU report on Turkey to help AKP win the previous election. That's only one thing that got leaked.

Lol, I'd have liked to see Turkey join just for the massive protests that'd burst out all across Europe. No European ever wanted Turkey to be a part of the EU, why the option was even kept open is beyond me.

Turkey is a founding member of the Council of Europe.

[Inhuman One]

He's just digging his own grave, I feel sorry for anyone in Turkey since now they are subject to the whims of an unchecked madman who seems very eager to bring back the death penalty.

While I am not opposed to the death penalty, seems fitting for mass murderers, pedophiles and such if it is 100% certain they did it, we already know that Erdogan would use it to kill those who speak out against him.

[Sar1n]

Possibly the only hope for Turkey now is that Ataturk himself will rise from his grave and throttle Erdogan.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Possibly the only hope for Turkey now is that Ataturk himself will rise from his grave and throttle Erdogan.

And you know that Erdogan would just call him a traitor, a nazi and a enemy of the turkish people.

[ggsimmonds]

The op used some of the best poetic hyperbole that I've seen in some time. Very impressive

[ArBo]

Turkey is a founding member of the Council of Europe.

Which is relevant how?

[Harith]

I don't follow Turkish politics much, but why is this a bad thing exactly? Turkey is now back into a presidential system much like the US. Why is that a bad thing?

[gastovski]

I don't follow Turkish politics much, but why is this a bad thing exactly? Turkey is now back into a presidential system much like the US. Why is that a bad thing?

It's pretty easy. Turkey's head is a Sunni, traditional, religious guy. The EU or US doesn't want Sunni-Islamic country like Turkey. If any non-religious, secular person would get elected, people would ok with it. But now everyone hates Erdoğan. But actuallly through Erdoğan, they hate Sunni Anatolian Muslims.

It's a blessing for you, coz you don't follow Turkish politics much, otherwise they would brainwash you for extreme hate of Erdoğan, which he is elected democratically since 2002.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

I don't follow Turkish politics much, but why is this a bad thing exactly? Turkey is now back into a presidential system much like the US. Why is that a bad thing?

Its nowhere near the US-System. That system was constructed based on the system of checks and balances. Very much like Cicero's utopical view of the roman system. I think the american system is deeply flawed granting the President already to much power, but as we see with Trump, his actions get limited by courts. That however is no option in Turkey. The courts are not independend. In the last couple of years you had a "Gleichschaltung", the same thing the Nazis did when they rose to power.

I have a question i can't find an answer for. Did the over 100k people arrested as enemies of the state had the right to vote? Or the people who got their passed stolen by the government?

[Sar1n]

It's pretty easy. Turkey's head is a Sunni, traditional, religious guy. The EU or US doesn't want Sunni-Islamic country like Turkey. If any non-religious, secular person would get elected, people would ok with it. But now everyone hates Erdoğan. But actuallly through Erdoğan, they hate Sunni Anatolian Muslims.

So, you really think that amassing power in hands of one man and effective dissolution of the system of checks and balances that is essential pillar of a liberal, democratic country has nothing to do with it?

But yeah, I won't pretend that religion has nothing to do with it either. Because another essential principle that made Turkish republic rise from ashes of Ottoman empire was separation of church and state. And that one is now going to hell along with everything else that made Turkish republic something more than a sad vestige of the Ottoman Empire.

And that is without even taking into account Erdogan's character. Be wary of it. He is using the religion as a tool for his own purposes, and in doing that he's making tools of all of you. One day, you won't agree with one of his policies, and because all the power he's already excersising you'll find yourself jobless and homeless, or in prison for voicing a concern...just like those thousands of people that met such fate after his latest round of purges, just because they had different opinion.

[Abdülmecid I]

It's pretty easy. Turkey's head is a Sunni, traditional, religious guy. The EU or US doesn't want Sunni-Islamic country like Turkey. If any non-religious, secular person would get elected, people would ok with it. But now everyone hates Erdoğan. But actuallly through Erdoğan, they hate Sunni Anatolian Muslims.

These comments show how professionally Erdoğan has managed to manipulate a large portion of the Turkish people, by very efficiently polarizing the Turkish society on a domestic and international scale. In what concerns the first, according to his opulist narrative, uncritically endorsed by many, Turkey is divided into the Sunni Anatolians, who proudly follow the traditions of their ancestorsm and the moderately religious, Shiite or even atheist wealthy elites of urban centers, who have surrendered unconditionally to westernisation and financially exploit the Sunni Anatolians, carrying only for their materialistic interests and not the needs of their state and religion.
Then we have the supposed hatred of the Europeans against Erdoğan and his supporters, because apparently they are (mis)led by an evil Kabbalah of Jewish Shiites, who either despise Sunni Anatolians, due to doctrinal differences, or are just jealous of their successes and moral purity. Ironically, events like those occured in the Netherlands significantly contributed to the popularity of the "Yes" in the referendum, not because there is some sort of grand conspiracy between the Turkish president and the Dutch government, but simply because both sides want to exploit polarization, in order to gain more votes. Erdoğan's strategy is a very effective tool at using the very often perfectly justified frustration of Turkey's poorer classes at his advantage, instead of allowing it to orientate against the leadership, under which they experience so many problems (not claiming, though, that the AKP government is solely responsible for that negative situation). Quite a pity that he's not as clever and creative, when it comes to foreign affairs.

[bigdaddy1204]

He is using the religion as a tool for his own purposes, and in doing that he's making tools of all of you. One day, you won't agree with one of his policies, and because all the power he's already excersising you'll find yourself jobless and homeless, or in prison for voicing a concern...just like those thousands of people that met such fate after his latest round of purges, just because they had different opinion.

Well said, I completely agree with this.

It's sad that so many people fail to see it, even though it's obvious to anyone who has ever read a news story in the last 5 years. That's why I condemn Erdogan utterly. He is an impostor, a hypocrite, a liar, a fraud, a thief, a criminal and a dictator. Erdogan uses sugar coated words to appeal to people's emotions, but his action tells a very different story.

I will admit the AKP made many great improvements for the lives of people and most of them are grateful to Erdogan for that, but that doesn't excuse him for completely dismantling the rule of law and abolishing the entire system of government and turning it into his own personal property so that he can rule like a god-king and crush anyone who dares to disagree with him. This tyrant is destroying everything that once made Turkey great. People are so foolish to trade their liberty for some feel-good rhetoric and the illusion of security, which will actually end up with them being much less safe. It may even cost their lives, rotting away in one of Erdogan's jails or worse.

[Harith]

It's pretty easy. Turkey's head is a Sunni, traditional, religious guy. The EU or US doesn't want Sunni-Islamic country like Turkey. If any non-religious, secular person would get elected, people would ok with it. But now everyone hates Erdoğan. But actuallly through Erdoğan, they hate Sunni Anatolian Muslims.

It's a blessing for you, coz you don't follow Turkish politics much, otherwise they would brainwash you for extreme hate of Erdoğan, which he is elected democratically since 2002.

I'm not a fan of Erdogan or the AKP, especially after Abdullah Gul left office. However, I do appreciate your POV nonetheless.

Its nowhere near the US-System. That system was constructed based on the system of checks and balances. Very much like Cicero's utopical view of the roman system. I think the american system is deeply flawed granting the President already to much power, but as we see with Trump, his actions get limited by courts. That however is no option in Turkey. The courts are not independend. In the last couple of years you had a "Gleichschaltung", the same thing the Nazis did when they rose to power.

Right, I do understand that the recent purge is pretty concerning and Saddam did exactly the same damn thing when he rose to power. However, my question is merely on the constitutional amendments. From an objective POV (disregarding Erdogan), I don't see the fuss of why it would be a disaster. If anything, I think it would make the government more efficient and clear the ambiguous lines between the executive and legislative that exist in the parliamentary system.

Ideally, I would like to see the judiciary become fully independent too, such that all appointments are done by the judicial branch autonomously or by a judicial committee compromised of maximum of 3 minority (as in they are a minority within the committee which should be comprised of judges, law experts, ex-judges) political representatives (2 government and 1 opposition or whichever).