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  1. #1
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    Default End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6189793.stm

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC
    End of the neo-con dream

    The ambitions proclaimed when the neo-cons' mission statement "The Project for the New American Century" was declared in 1997 have turned into disappointment and recriminations as the crisis in Iraq has grown.

    "The Project for the New American Century" has been reduced to a voice-mail box and a ghostly website. A single employee has been left to wrap things up.

    The idea of the "Project" was to project American power and influence around the world.

    The 1997 statement (written during the administration of President Bill Clinton) said:

    "We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities."

    Among the signatories were many of the senior officials who would later determine policy under President George W Bush - Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliot Abrams and Lewis Libby - as well as thinkers including Francis Fukuyama, Norman Podheretz and Frank Gaffney.

    The neo-conservatives were called that because they sought to re-establish what they felt were true conservative values in the Republican Party and the United States.

    They wanted to stop what they felt were the isolationist tendencies that had developed under President Clinton, and even under the pragmatic President George Bush senior.

    They saw the war in Iraq as their big chance of showing how the "New American Century" might work.

    They predicted the development of democratic values in a region lacking in them and, in that way, the removal of any threat to the United States just as the democratisation of Germany and Japan after World War II had transformed Europe and the Pacific.

    Attack

    Since so much was pinned on Iraq, it is inevitable that the problems there should have undermined the whole idea.

    "Neo-conservatism has gone for a generation, if in fact it ever returns," says one of the movement's critics, David Rothkopf, currently at the Carnegie Endowment in Washington, and a former official in the Clinton administration.

    "Their signal enterprise was the invasion of Iraq and their failure to produce results is clear. Precisely the opposite has happened," he says.

    "The US use of force has been seen as doing wrong and as inflaming a region that has been less than susceptible to democracy.

    "Their plan has fallen on hard times. There were flaws in the conception and horrendously bad execution. The neo-cons have been undone by their own ideas and the incompetence of the Bush administration.

    "George Bush is about the last neo-conservative standing, Cheney as well maybe. Bush is not an analytical person so he just adopted the neo-cons' philosophy.

    "It fitted into his Manichean, his black and white view of the world. After all, he gave up his dissolute youth and was born again as a new man, so it appealed to his character."

    In-fighting

    The fading of the dream has led to a falling-out among the neo-conservatives themselves.

    In particular, two leading neo-conservatives, Richard Perle and Kenneth Adelman, attacked the Bush team in Vanity Fair magazine. Both had been on a Pentagon advisory board. Both had argued for war in Iraq.

    In an article called "Neo Culpa", Richard Perle declared that had he known how it would turn out, he would have been against it: "I think now I probably would have said: 'No, let's consider other strategies'."

    Kenneth Adelman said: "They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the post-war era.

    "Not only did each of them, individually, have enormous flaws, but together they were deadly, dysfunctional."

    Donald Rumsfeld "fooled me", he said.

    He declared of neo-conservatism after Iraq: "It's not going to sell."

    Defence and counter-attack

    Other neo-conservatives defend their record, arguing strongly that the original idea had an effect, and pressing the point raised by Perle and Adelman that it was the execution of the idea not the idea itself that was wrong.

    Gary Schmitt used to be a senior figure at the "New American Century" project. Now he is director of strategic studies at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), and he says the project has come to a natural end.

    "When the project started, it was not intended to go forever. That is why we are shutting it down. We would have had to spend too much time raising money for it and it has already done its job.

    "We felt at the time that there were flaws in American foreign policy, that it was neo-isolationist. We tried to resurrect a Reaganite policy.

    "Our view has been adopted. Even during the Clinton administration we had an effect, with Madeleine Albright [then secretary of state] saying that the United States was 'the indispensable nation'.

    "But our ideas have not necessarily dominated. We did not have anyone sitting on Bush's shoulder. So the work now is to see how they are implemented. Obviously it makes life difficult with the specific failure in Iraq, but I do not agree with Richard Perle that we should never have gone in.

    "I do argue that the execution should have been better. In fact, I argued in late 2003 that we needed more troops and a proper counter-insurgency policy."

    Indeed, not all neo-conservatives have given up all hope in Iraq.

    The AEI, which has become the natural home for refugees from the American Project, is promoting an article entitled: "Choosing Victory: A Plan for Success in Iraq".

    The article calls not for a withdrawal of US troops but for an increase. President Bush's decision is expected in early January.
    Do you think the schemes and plans of this evil cabal is at its end or do you think they are gonna make a come back sooner or later?
    Last edited by Miraj; December 24, 2006 at 07:47 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    ThudareikssGunthigs (spelling?) post/article about this was a more amusing read. I believe they will be back, but in a more reduced/cautious form. For the next decades I do not thin there is political will in the US for neo-conservatism, at least not in the current aggressive form.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    I for one disagree.

    They have simply become more dangerous and twisted than ever before.
    Don't be complacent. They are very much still with us. And now they are far more dangerous.

  4. #4
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfootedfred View Post
    I for one disagree.

    They have simply become more dangerous and twisted than ever before.
    Don't be complacent. They are very much still with us. And now they are far more dangerous.
    care to elaborate? I mean, how have they become more dangerous?
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Roman View Post
    care to elaborate? I mean, how have they become more dangerous?

    If there is a Wasp in the room. I prefer to know where it is.
    You think these guys simply gave up, packed up their stuff and called it day?
    Now we don't know where they are, we don't know where they can influence things from. A wounded animal is often far more dangerous than one in good health. why? The one in good health can choose flight over fight.

    So, i do not think we have seen the last of them.
    and i also think they are now far more dangerous.
    And with the kind of laws in place in the united states today.
    This is certainly not the time for complacency.

  6. #6
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfootedfred View Post
    You think these guys simply gave up, packed up their stuff and called it day?
    certainly not, but that doesn't mean they'll be successful in coming back. Iraq really hurt their cause.
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
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  7. #7

    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    the 'new american century' only lasted for a measley six years!

    the 'third reich' lasted longer than that!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    Yeah...I think things are going to change a little....for positive or negative
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  9. #9

    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    Everyone needs a monster in their closet or under the bed, its ironic that Neocons have muslim extremists as theirs and quite a few TWCers have neocons for theirs.

    the 'new american century' only lasted for a measley six years!

    the 'third reich' lasted longer than that!
    What do both have in common? The American people brought about the end of both!
    Last edited by danzig; December 24, 2006 at 01:14 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    thats why all these ****** think tanks like the project for a new american century need to STOP DICTATING US FOREIGN POLICY.

    Every prediction theyve made has turned out wrong.

    even RealPolitik is better than the stuff these think tanks come up with, At least if we were still operating with a RealPolitik mindview, we'd have no qualms about cooperating with murderous despots as long as we got something beneficial out of it. Soon as we try to play the hero, we F things up, how do you think Vietnam happened? We had to save the world from communism! Wheres our cape with the large S on it?
    Last edited by RZZZA; December 24, 2006 at 02:21 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by mirage41 View Post
    Do you think the schemes and plans of this evil cabal is at its end or do you think they are gonna make a come back sooner or later?
    It's dead for now.
    But something similar will be "re-invented" by somebody else in the future.
    Then it will fail again...and again...and again.

    People just never learn from history.
    If they only bothered to read up on how Mussolini's plan for "a new Italian century" went down they would have known better.



  12. #12
    Freddie's Avatar The Voice of Reason
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    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    Neoconservatives…..also most a contradiction in terms.

    Bring back the Thatcher’s the Churchill, Eisenhower’s, true greats of true conservatism, not his half washed ex commy sorts.

  13. #13

    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    what has dollar circulation got to do with neoconservatism?

    ??

  14. #14

    Default Re: End of the Neo-Con Fantasy

    It would be easy to describe the neo cons you cited as lame ducks, not worth the effort of removing for the power they have left.

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