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Thread: Total War: Warhammer II announced

  1. #101
    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    I guess this is the closest thing I'm ever getting to an America's Total War, I doubt they would go the new world route after having done a fantasy setting in a "new world". Just as well I guess, since all the people and moaning about it being a Warhammer title instead of a history one are also the kind of people that would have probably and moaned about TW not being set in europe for the millionth ing time. Really makes the whole "history nerd" persona TWC members think they have ring hollow as hell.

    Honestly I would rather get more warhammer titles if it means I didn't have to meander throughout the same obnoxious european map, installing the same trillion mods that appear for every title about Rome, Medieval Europe and LOTR, with the same god damn nations with slightly different weaponry.


    The whole "history buff" fanbase is a joke, if TWC is anything to go by.
    Last edited by saxdude; April 04, 2017 at 12:51 PM.

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  2. #102

    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaxx Hatmen View Post
    So is everybody just gonna gloss over the fact that CA, for the very first time in the TW franchise, are expanding the campaign map for base game with an expansion? I've been wanting them to do this since Med I. Kinda excited to them try something bold like that for an expak finally.(Even though it's an expand-alone.)
    They are not expanding the campaign map, they are just selling it in pieces.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Dumanthis View Post
    Well and what has DeepMind to do with the in game "AI" of a Videogame?

    [ ] It must be the same because both is called "AI"
    [X] Nothing
    [ ] Don't know


    Or do you think that something like the Deep Mind AI will in future be included in VideoGames?
    Let me correct... in the near future
    Last edited by Chlodwig I.; April 05, 2017 at 10:59 AM.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    Seems CA decided to hurl out as many warhammers as they could in shortest time possible... which means its second game in a row i will just ignore
    The wood elves mini campaign map can be modded to medieval era as it does look like France. Just disable all the non-human factions and all those magics and flying horses, you'll get a pure medieval France already. If CA added Araby later on, the assets can be use maybe to create Charles Martel campaign.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Do not even care still playing TW Medieval 2 mods )

  6. #106

    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by perifanosEllinas View Post
    They are not expanding the campaign map, they are just selling it in pieces.
    Yeah honestly that was the first thing I thought too, already when they announced Warhammer 1 with so few factions and the big hints at expensions... It was all thought out from the beginning. Can't blame them since it's a good way to get extra money for the company, but it does feel that old TW players are being forgotten here. Myself I am a bit salty aswell but i'm still enjoying the older games with mods. It's just that it feels like CA is getting worse every new TW game and it worries me.

  7. #107
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    No it is not an expansion.
    Yes, it is an expansion in all but name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    It has the same amount of content, if not more, than Warhammer, at launch it is a completely separate game.
    Expansions are know to be like that. No one has ever bought a expansion that rests content to a game. The fact that launch separately is by design so they can say "it a different game" and charge you the whole price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    It is a TRILOGY, not a rushed new generation, not an expansion.
    It's a trilogy yes, just like we could say Shogun 2 was a trilogy... that doesn't mean they needed to make 3 "separated" games back then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    Saying Warhammer 2 is an expansion is like saying the first Warhammer is an expansion for Rome 2!
    No, saying Warhammer 2 its a expansion from Warhammer 1 is like saying is like saying it is freaking expansion in all but name. Look it's even in the tittle, 1, 2 and the following 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    They share similar mechanics and story, apart from that there's a new map, new factions, new narrative.
    Just like Brood War for starcraft, for example. Let's see:
    New races. Check.
    New maps. Check.
    New campaign. Check.
    All in the same engine. Check.

    In fact one could say it's nothing but a glorified mod. Do they make something moders couldn't do given proper tool and had the game be designed to be more modeable?
    Did they include naval battles? Nope. More strategic options? Did they include dismounting in battle? Truly new mechanics? Nope, nope and nope. Only a new campaign map, new factions and the ability to play the old game races and map... guess what that used to be called? That's right, and expansion, or hell, even a good mod.

    A really new game would have meant at least a new engine with new capabilities and new mechanics. Yes I know all total war games have been based on the sameish engine from Empire or Shogun onward, but for every game they have modified the engine heavily (their words) to adapt it for each setting. A truly new game probably wouldn't have been compatible with the original one, like Empire and Shogun in example, or any other two games that are indeed two different games.

    In my eyes the only way they could save some face would be to yes, sell it like a "complete game" for people that don't have the Warhammer 1, but sell it at the price of an expansion or dlc or whatever you wanna call it for people that already own the game.

    Saying it's not an expansion in all but name is condoning the current, sad state of the gaming industry. But to each it's own.
    Last edited by Lord Baal; April 08, 2017 at 03:29 PM.
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  8. #108
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    I still cant get my head around people not realizing the animation work for one faction in warhammer is more expansive than pretty much the sum of animations in any other TW game. And then they complain about the map being sold in "pieces" like all three games and all the dlcs in one neat 30$ package was the least we should have expected. And getting four new races (not factions, races. There's at least 8 playable factions in wh2) a new map and a new story and mechanics is somehow less than what was provided by Attila and does not qualify as a new game.
    Last edited by Påsan; April 08, 2017 at 04:55 PM.

  9. #109
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Animation work is intensive yes, but isn't makes up for a new game and most new units could reuse most animations already in the game with only a few retouches unless we are getting a whole new race of tentacled decapods... and even then animation alone doesn't justify a "new game" price.

    Which new mechanics? Is there's something I'm missing? Please yes it would be refreshing to learn they indeed put something really new.
    Last edited by Lord Baal; April 08, 2017 at 05:23 PM.
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  10. #110
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    I'm not a WARHAMMER player, but this joining up of the map does sound interesting.

    Can anyone tell me (what they think) would happen if I only bought WARHAMMER 2? i.e. Do you someone who only owns the second game will have a lesser or greater experience?
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  11. #111
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Animation work is intensive yes, but isn't makes up for a new game and most new units could reuse most animations already in the game with only a few retouches unless we are getting a whole new race of tentacled decapods... and even then animation alone doesn't justify a "new game" price.

    Which new mechanics? Is there's something I'm missing? Please yes it would be refreshing to learn they indeed put something really new.
    Well considering we are getting a whole race of dinosaurs with a variety of dinosaur mounts and monsters. And a race of ratmen with a variety of monsters and wierd steampunk machines. None of those two even remotely resemble anything in the game. I guess the two elven factions can share some animations with the wood elves. But even there theres a bunch of different monsters and unique mechnaics that need animation.

    And obviusly there's going to be new campaign mechanics for each of the four races and new campaign mechanics tied to the vortex.

    And basically, given that Rome 2 and Atilla were very similar, most things were the same with some additions, mainly the horde and winter thing. I dont see why the threshold of "new game" is so high for you guys. Similar situation with Rome 1 and Med 2, and Empire and Napoleon really. What makes these games different enough? Different timeline does not count as you get a new continent with warhammer which is better than Europe slightly later.
    Last edited by Påsan; April 09, 2017 at 04:22 AM.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Frunk View Post
    I'm not a WARHAMMER player, but this joining up of the map does sound interesting.

    Can anyone tell me (what they think) would happen if I only bought WARHAMMER 2? i.e. Do you someone who only owns the second game will have a lesser or greater experience?
    With both games you should have options to start 1) w1 - old world campaign , 2) w2 - new world campaign , 3) combined map .....this last options won´t be available from start as they want to focus firstly on "new world campaign"..catching bugs and this combined campaign should be available shortly after release (first big patch? +/- month is my estimation..)

    W2 campaign should be to no degree lesser than w1. It has 4 continents, one third more regions,similar number of races/factions and diversity. Its own goals centered around vortex...

    However i´m really hyped for the combined map because warhammer world is build to be big battle/play-ground. For example Skaven. If they add more sub-factions they need to cover both new/old world :-)

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Animation work is intensive yes, but isn't makes up for a new game and most new units could reuse most animations already in the game with only a few retouches unless we are getting a whole new race of tentacled decapods... and even then animation alone doesn't justify a "new game" price.

    Which new mechanics? Is there's something I'm missing? Please yes it would be refreshing to learn they indeed put something really new.
    Are you just joking or blind? Check some screenshots please. Because each warhammer faction has more diversity in itself than older total war titles in whole.. by your logic whole shogun two are just one soldier animation in different armour..who cares if its ashigaru or samurai and just some cavalry..okay and some artilery. Even rome has only charriots and a few elephants....such lazy development. Copy paste only with different weapons and armour. And empire just some standing troops with rifles....

    Go,check screenshots for warhammer....

  14. #114
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    I already did it. Again animation alone shouldn't justify the whole price of a game. I wouldn't pay full price IF I owned the "first" game (that's it, the base game), the only debatable advantage I see is that people are not forced to buy the base game to play this expansion, tha would work out if you are a hardcore dark elf or slaan fan only I guess...

    @Påsan, my dear friend, I haven't see anything about vortex related mechanics, have you? And the threshold is high in my case because dollars to buy a game, justify buying one are really hard to come by. I'm a gamer at heart and it's almost impossible for me to buy new games. So when I'm planning in doing so I would like them to be really new games, with as many features they can have and not something with just new models, so I have a lot to do and enjoy because it will be a long time (read years most likely) before I can buy another. It bring sadness to my heart the acceptance people have to being nickle and dimed in the way they are now.

    But like I said to each your own.
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  15. #115

    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    I already did it. Again animation alone shouldn't justify the whole price of a game. I wouldn't pay full price IF I owned the "first" game (that's it, the base game), the only debatable advantage I see is that people are not forced to buy the base game to play this expansion, tha would work out if you are a hardcore dark elf or slaan fan only I guess...

    @Påsan, my dear friend, I haven't see anything about vortex related mechanics, have you? And the threshold is high in my case because dollars to buy a game, justify buying one are really hard to come by. I'm a gamer at heart and it's almost impossible for me to buy new games. So when I'm planning in doing so I would like them to be really new games, with as many features they can have and not something with just new models, so I have a lot to do and enjoy because it will be a long time (read years most likely) before I can buy another. It bring sadness to my heart the acceptance people have to being nickle and dimed in the way they are now.

    But like I said to each your own.
    To some degree I can see your point. My own mind set is it isn't a lot of money and there will be enough that's new and fun to make Warhammer II playable for some time.
    It's too easy to take for granted having the money for these games, never mind the PC to run them because I live in the rich part of the world.

    If you had the money would you really like to buy this new game(from what little we know so far of course) even though it's not quite up to the value for money you would like?

  16. #116
    Huberto's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrin View Post
    Obviously, I would prefer to be playing a historical title, but that's no reason to be getting aggro that this was another WH announcement. Honestly, if I had the choice of playing an extremely well-conceived and polished history title in late 2019 or a half-baked piece of crap like Rome II was for its first year, hands down the first.

    I honestly see the big hiatus as a good thing. New engine perhaps. Entirely new era of warfare. Perhaps a much-needed overhaul of some of the series' fundamental mechanics. These things all need time... and at the very least, Warhammer is giving them that.
    I don't disagree except with your last sentence. WH has always been a time suck for CA and every hour spent on WH has robbed historical games of attention. WH has consumed the majority of TW staff since release of Attila in early 2015. However, that appears to be changing now as the new historical game design is locked and in full production.

    In other words, there is reason to believe that we will be able to play the next "major" historical title in 2018. The real question is whether it is coming before WH3 or after, which will determine the ultimate timing. As far as the eventual quality and polish of the game, this will be due to many factors that are hard to account for right now; but it's not simply based on the amount of months or years between releases.

    We hope a new engine has been built for the new historical game, and there certainly has been enough time for that -- given that it's been almost four years since TWR2. A new engine should improve the game and it's performance. The design of game features, mechanics, etc. is already done. From here it's really about attention to detail, but there's no reason to believe it will take two years to produce, unless WH3 is in the way.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    I don't disagree except with your last sentence. WH has always been a time suck for CA and every hour spent on WH has robbed historical games of attention. WH has consumed the majority of TW staff since release of Attila in early 2015. However, that appears to be changing now as the new historical game design is locked and in full production.

    In other words, there is reason to believe that we will be able to play the next "major" historical title in 2018. The real question is whether it is coming before WH3 or after, which will determine the ultimate timing. As far as the eventual quality and polish of the game, this will be due to many factors that are hard to account for right now; but it's not simply based on the amount of months or years between releases.

    We hope a new engine has been built for the new historical game, and there certainly has been enough time for that -- given that it's been almost four years since TWR2. A new engine should improve the game and it's performance. The design of game features, mechanics, etc. is already done. From here it's really about attention to detail, but there's no reason to believe it will take two years to produce, unless WH3 is in the way.
    Warhammer 1 was released in May 2016 with content being pumped out until now, Warhammer 2 will be released this summer +/- ...so it´s one year later and with similar amount of DLC/additional content so the part three will be out probably next summer. And I simply cannot imagine Sega allowing CA to publish next historical title with shorter than 6 months between these two..... This is about marketing. So at best we can talk about Christmas 2018, more likely beginning of 2019. DLC for warhammer three will be comming out up to summer 2019 probably...so that´s it.

    The very best we can hope for is either mini campaigns for rome2/attila or another attila style datadisc as that is meant by a standalone title.

    Plus I strongly disagree with warhammer robbing historical titles of anything. These three years of warhammer can be used by CA to prepare a new engine (hopefully) and Warhammer is bringing serious money. It is the biggest success so far. With multiple teams working on various projects they can spare resources now.

  18. #118

    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Well considering we are getting a whole race of dinosaurs with a variety of dinosaur mounts and monsters. And a race of ratmen with a variety of monsters and wierd steampunk machines. None of those two even remotely resemble anything in the game.
    Oh wow you get new factions big deal, that is common in most RTS expansions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    I guess the two elven factions can share some animations with the wood elves. But even there theres a bunch of different monsters and unique mechanics that need animation.
    So yeah only two factions right now that are even all that different. And no different units and slightly different mechanics does not help justify calling it a sequel, that is again, stuff that was almost always around in RTS expansions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    And obviusly there's going to be new campaign mechanics for each of the four races and new campaign mechanics tied to the vortex.
    Again, big deal. We see this happen in numerous expansions where they introduce new campaigns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    And basically, given that Rome 2 and Atilla were very similar, most things were the same with some additions, mainly the horde and winter thing.
    What a lousy argument to make. Every one knows Attila was just an expansion to Rome 2 so you are not helping your point one bit here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    I dont see why the threshold of "new game" is so high for you guys.
    Funny how you complain that ours are so high when it seems more like yours are just too low.
    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Similar situation with Rome 1 and Med 2, and Empire and Napoleon really.
    Wrong. Rome 1 and Med 2 were no where near the same game like Empire and Napoleon was. The latter used the exact same animations as their previous game and had practically the same mechanics just refined so it was obviously an expansion. The other had virtually new animations for everything and added various features along with the battles being vastly different in speed to where the combat was far slower then the more arcade like speed in Rome 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    What makes these games different enough? Different timeline does not count as you get a new continent with warhammer which is better than Europe slightly later.
    >different timelines don't count
    >adding more continents do

    Some messed up logic right there man. Warhammer 2 is just like any other expansion Total War has made. There is no arguing this and it is honestly a pointless debate. No amount of excuses is going to change the fact that they are just adding on to what the original game has already started, not making a whole new game. I don't understand why it is such a big deal for you guys to be so desperate in defending this, it's not like it's a bad thing if people just call it an expansion. In the end you are getting more Warhammer in the future so what's the big deal?

  19. #119
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Well maybe if I wee able to buy the game easily my opinion would be more lenient towards this.
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  20. #120
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    Default Re: Total War: Warhammer II announced

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    Some messed up logic right there man. Warhammer 2 is just like any other expansion Total War has made. There is no arguing this and it is honestly a pointless debate. No amount of excuses is going to change the fact that they are just adding on to what the original game has already started, not making a whole new game. I don't understand why it is such a big deal for you guys to be so desperate in defending this, it's not like it's a bad thing if people just call it an expansion.
    It doesn´t matter how we call it. Question is, what are we getting for the money.... I just browsed steam shop and checked all lower listed games with bigger DLCs/datadiscs.... (yeah i have bought all and played em all a lot so probably i can have my own opinion). Really new things/assets were added by Napoleon/Attila and Fall of the Samurai in relation to the "original game" (Empire/Shogun2/Rome2). But these are datadiscs. Don´t get me wrong, Age of Charlamagne is one of best mini-campaign but does it bring anything really really new? Attila is greatly polished and enriched Rome2 BUT by this Rome2 was left in pretty much unfinished state. And probably everybody would love if Empire was improved by Napoleon additions as well. So my question is, how much would you pay to get these games merged together? I can imagine there might be slight discount for warhammer2 if you have already part1. But from start warhammer was supposed to be trilogy. Expanding each another. Is it more or less? Well we will see but from current state of warhammer one, each race is playing very differently with different mechanics (Chivalry, Amber, Chaos + Vampiric Corruption....) i have no doubts warhammer two will continue and the vortex part seems to bring new kind of end game content...or race for victory.

    Now mini-campaigns for Warhammer1 are more likely combination of mini-campaign and culture pack as they are adding actual new faction even to main campaign so that´s actually getting discount as culture packs for Attila/R2 ....are +/- 7 EU...so we are things for 17,5 instead of 15+7. And don´t even start that in R2 we get more factions in one pack. Yeah by they are all pretty much copy/paste and every single race for warhammer is really really different to the rest. I very well remember all the whining about factions from you history guys... Sorry we have everything from magic, steam tanks, gyrocopters, griffins, dragons, various monsters, elves....undead......

    About smaller DLC we cannot even compare them because for empire they are just some units..different skin, nothing special....Otomo clan, at least Ikki Jikki. Empire/Napoleon - different stats, the same guy with rifle, Shogun - different stats , the same guys with katanas, bows and early guns, rome2/attila - different stats for guys with sword, pike or slingers....Variety amongs factions in warhammer is like comparing Ikki with Roman Empire with Great Britain with some Huns....that´s the variety in warhammer.

    Empire:
    Warpath Campaign - 8 EU

    Napoleon (20 itself):
    Peninsular Campaign - 8 EU

    Shogun 2:
    Rise of the Samurai - 8 EU
    Fall of the Samurai - 30 EU

    R2:
    Wrath of Sparta - 15
    Hannibal at the Gates - 15
    Ceasar in Gaul - 15

    Attila (40 itself):
    Age of Charlamagne - 15
    The Last Roman Campaign - 15

    Warhammer:
    Call fo Beastmen -17,5
    Realm of Wood Elves - 17,5

    So what´s the conclusion? Is warhammer 2 worth 60 Eu from release? For me yes but if you doubt, well a lot guys is grabbing things in sales so whats the deal? It would be cheaper anyway in year. Getting all parts, DLCs for money of one new historical title But my opinion is ,we are getting much more new content for our money than in previous games. Overall it is more expensive but if you compare the in-game value?... And really big question is if next historical title could even match diversity in warhammer world. Because it was designed with diversity taken into account....You need Mongols as they were only one fighting Samurai, Middleage Knights, Muslims and China people in one period.
    Last edited by Daruwind; April 09, 2017 at 08:46 PM.

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