Total War: Warhammer II announced

[Abdülmecid I]

I think the theory about 4 Old World updates was pretty baseless and generated from almost nothing but reddit hype. Goblins and the Empire were the only factions in desperate need for updates, so I doubt anything more will follow. Even the Skaven are already too powerful, especially the last mouse (can't remember its name, it's the one riding that wheel of doom). In my opinion, there are only two remaining lord packs, the first to be released in Christmas and the second, concerning the orcs, sometime in the spring, probably before or just after Troy. Then, in summer, Warhammer III (and the 4 chaos deities! will be announced, in order to get published either in late 2020 or early 2021.

Now I´m confused too. You think Abdul that there will be no paid DLC (+FLC) but just the FLC itself, right? I saw no such info so far, but confusion might be due to the fact that CA is teasing FLC part alone.... The FLC chart is saying nothing about paid DLC, it is just free content. And there was CA comment about no update this time but that was just about Old World Rework. It is again saying nothing disabling possible DLC at max limiting options which factions might be in.

Nice point, I had completely forgotten it. To be honest, I'm a bit confused with all these announcements about additional, digital content, paid or free.

[Daruwind]

Waaaaaait a second. Reading once again. Next DLC is not cross-game. But nothing about FLC. We only know FLC is not skaven. Can we live in some weird domension where we will get like three races? WH1 race as FLC and DLC as Wh2 vs Wh2 race? Like DE (Malus) vs TK + FLC like Bretonnia? ...or DE (Rakarth/Malus) vs Skaven (Throt) + FLC Dwarfs like Thorek? That is probably way too complicated...



EDIT: the theory about more lord pack is just theory. It was just about makign things symmetrical..like 4 Wh1 core races, 4 Wh2 core races. And Beastnem and WE will get update too soooner or later. CA said it that they will visit all races basically ;-)

[Love Mountain]

What does "cross game dlc" mean?

[Daruwind]

What does "cross game dlc" mean?

Latest DLC for example - Beast/Hunter - Lizardmen LL (Wh2 faction) vs Empire LL (Wh1 faction)

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And one comment, the last paragraph. One favourite character by Christmas. (Malus?)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Love Mountain]

Thanks for the reply Daruwind, though I have to say that the term is extremely poor in my opinion. To be honest, I'm not even sure if its existence is necessary. Either way, I'm prepared to be underwhelmed by the FLC. Give me a new Empire LL already!

[Steph]

With 4-5 months between DLC, I think we could still get more than 2. In in December, and another around april may are more or less granted.

But with Troy next year, and thehabit from CA to not release two titles the same years, I don't expect Warhammer III before 2021. And they need time to build the hype.

So it means a possible DLC in Setpember/October, and maybe a small one around Christmas.

CA said they have a large team (the largest one) on WH3. Since WH2 and WH3 will be more compatible than 3K (from CA in Discord: no guarantee of compatibility, they are ready to change stuff if needed for improvement, but it is also in their interest to be able to reuse as much as possible from Game 2).
A large team means they have some ambition: maybe an upgrade of the engine that could allow faster turn, bigger maps, new cool mechanism... I don't think they'd put the largest team so far "just" to make Chaos , Caos Dwarves and a few Ogres, with a 25% map increase to include Darklands, while Game 2 more than doubled the map. They are probably preparing some surprise.

And it also means that if they are smart, they can prepare the ground for Game 3 by introducing some changes in Game2 (some QoL that will be used later, like a change in the race selection UI, or Greeskin update, trying to put every race more ro elss on the same level before starting Game 3)

And this would need time and hype building.

So, based on tis time frame and past release around the same period, I expect two "small" DLC around Christmas 2019 and 2020, and two DLC around May and September.

We can hade DE/Skaven in December, and still time to do HE/Greenskin rework (May), (this means each core race for Game 2 will have two rounds of DLC), and then another in October with another update. I'm not sure what they could put... DoW Southern Realms?

[Abdülmecid I]

Well, don't forget that Rome's II 40% increase in budget eventually gained quite an embarrassing notoriety. Seriously though, there's nothing extraordinary about the largest team being dedicated to Warhammer III. Currently, the last part of the trilogy is the only tent-pole title in full production, while Three Kingdoms or Warhammer II are now only focused on DLCs and minor digital packs. Troy, similarly to Throb, is a project of a more limited scope and is worked on exclusively by the Sofia branch. I expect that the team for Warhammer III grew in its present dimensions, immediately after Three Kingdoms was released, but this is a standard procedure for any company, like that of Creative Assembly, where this specific business model is followed. It would be really bizarre if the next big Total War project did not concern the majority of the studio's staff.

Regarding the content of Warhammer III, I doubt it will be somehow smaller than that of its predecessors. CA can easily distort the map to make it comparable to those of Warhammer I and II (for example, you can check how Iran and the Arabian peninsula were squeezed in Attila and Rome II) and, as far as I know, the lore of the four Chaos deities is rich enough to justify a large as diverse and extravagant as those of the rats, lizards or pirates.

[Daruwind]

Like even with ToB the time distance between games were around a year. So if we expect Troy around April/May next year it would mean probably Wh3 no earlier then 2021. And May-September is typical CA release windows for previous part years.
Wh2 - 09/17
ToB - 05/18
3K - 05/19
Troy - 03-05/20 ?
Wh3 - 05-09/21 ?
3K follow up title (like Attila) x/22 ?
Plus there were hints that Troy might have some DLCs this time, we know that 3K barely got one DLC so far so many more will come and Wh2 probably has at least two lord packs and Wh3 preorder...so it is all fitting together somehow.

Problem with 4 Chaos Gods is, for many people they are more like one super faction with 4 branches. Yes, they are the most diverse due to having 4 army books but some people can justify existence of Empire provincies as independent factions, I can do so with my beloved High Elves and others with Skaven Clans. Plus judging from Wh1/2, we need more different starting races. Not just 4x chaos. We need good/order faction, evil, something almost neutral...it is simple fact that most popular factions are "good" and "humanlike" ones - Empire and HE. Unless we get Cathay, Kislev is way small so DoW is only left bigger good faction around.. I get the idea with old dataleak info but CA itself on few occassions said it is not final plan. So the more time passed, we are diverging more and more...plus from marketing point of view, 4 staring Chaos races are simply no go.

This is bringing us back to Steph. There might be even Wh3 preorder DLC ala WoC/Norsca. It might be one of the Lord Pack(s) but it might be tied with another Old World Update.

My original vision was like: ...too much theorycrafting

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lizardmen/Empire update 09/19 - done
HE/Greenskins update 1/20
Skaven/Beastmen update 5/20
DE/Beastmen update or Bretonnia LL 9/20
Wh3 preorder (Kislev,Araby)+ WE update 2/21
Wh3 5-9/21

Then with Festag DLC I was thinking like:
Lizardmen/Empire update 09/19 - done
DE/Skaven 12/19
HE/Greenskins update 4/20
something 9/20
Wh3 preorder + WE update 2/21
Wh3 5-9/21

-Skaven/Dwarfs LL
-DE/Skaven/Beastmen update
-DE/Bretonnia LL/TK LL
-HE/WE update (like Imrik vs Ariel)

[Welsh Dragon]

Problem with 4 Chaos Gods is, for many people they are more like one super faction with 4 branches. Yes, they are the most diverse due to having 4 army books but some people can justify existence of Empire provincies as independent factions, I can do so with my beloved High Elves and others with Skaven Clans. Plus judging from Wh1/2, we need more different starting races. Not just 4x chaos. We need good/order faction, evil, something almost neutral...it is simple fact that most popular factions are "good" and "humanlike" ones - Empire and HE. Unless we get Cathay, Kislev is way small so DoW is only left bigger good faction around.. I get the idea with old dataleak info but CA itself on few occassions said it is not final plan. So the more time passed, we are diverging more and more...plus from marketing point of view, 4 staring Chaos races are simply no go.

Agreed. I don't see any realistic scenario where a Warhammer Total War game launches with 4 Chaos Gods as the 4 base game races, which is one of the reasons I've always been very dubious of the old "dataleak." Doesn't mean there won't be 4 Chaos races in Warhammer 3 eventually, just I think a 2 Chaos Gods + Ogres + Chaos Dwarves/Dogs of War seems a more viable spread of races to appeal to a variety of players, not just the diehard Chaos ones.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[Love Mountain]

Rather than 4 distinct Chaos "races", it'll likely be a mechanic. I.E. a Chaos general can be aligned to a Chaos god through customization (skill points) which will grant him access to unique units or abilities related to his Chaos God. Legendary Lords will come automatically aligned to a specific Chaos god or Chaos Undivided, which will have its own advantages/disadvantages. Most likely there'll be a specific system to determine Chaos God influence, something like the elector count system.

[Steph]

That's an interesting concept.

IMO, we have 4 possibilities
- We have 4 chaos "race", one for each God, with different game mechanism, building, rosters, and several factions. This would mean not much more due to the cost, and would be liked only by a minority. I have the feeling most player don't like chaos, except as ennemies.
- We have a single chaos race, but with several factions, each one aligned with a specific God. They share a common unit base and building, and game mechanism, but then each faction has a few specific buildings and units, a special game mechanism, maybe it's own corruption. This would be better for DLC, we could ahve "only" 2 Gods at start, and then get more faction/God via DLC later.
- Several factions, but all the same, with Chaos God general as you suggest, customizable via Skill to worship a special Chaos God. This would give the advantage of flexibility: each faction can have all Gods, if they recruit / specialize each General§;
- Instead of having buildings split according to unit type (like Tribal Relic giving Marauder units, Blasphemous icon giving Chaos Warriors, Trophies Giving Chaos Knights, etc) we could have one buildign for each God. Level 1: gives Marauders, Level 5 : Gives Chaos Knights, etc. But each buildign vies a variant specific to one chaos god.

[lolIsuck]

Agreed. I don't see any realistic scenario where a Warhammer Total War game launches with 4 Chaos Gods as the 4 base game races, which is one of the reasons I've always been very dubious of the old "dataleak." Doesn't mean there won't be 4 Chaos races in Warhammer 3 eventually, just I think a 2 Chaos Gods + Ogres + Chaos Dwarves/Dogs of War seems a more viable spread of races to appeal to a variety of players, not just the diehard Chaos ones.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

Yeah, going with the four Chaos Gods as the base for WH3 would be a really weird choice as it greatly limits the playerbase. I can't see how they'd ignore both other main races still left as they are the ones that dominate large parts of what in all likelyhood will be WH3's map. The Chaos Dwarves dominate much of the Darklands and the Ogres the Mountains of Mourn. It'd also make sense to include an Order faction for the people who like to play the "good guys" as two of the other three are Chaos-aligned and the other is neutral (a bit like the Greenskins, so in many people's perception they'll be leaning towards the evil side as well). Main options here are Kislev, DoW (being mercs they're more neutral) and Cathay. The latter is the least probable of the three but I think it'd be a good idea to include it as it'd greatly improve the climate diversity. A map focused almost solely on the Darklands, Mountains of Mourn and Chaos Wastes would probably not be very interesting visually.

Possible factions:

Chaos-aligned:
Daemons of Chaos Obvious inclusion)
Chaos Dwarves (Obvious inclusion)
Kurgan (Nomadic human warriors who worship the Chaos Gods, could be their own thing, could be Norscan clones, probably the latter)
Hung (Also nomadic human warriors who worship the Chaos Gods, could be their own thing, could also be Norcsan clones, probably the latter)
Beastmen of Ind? (There are Tiger-headed Beastmen in Ind, from what I read on the wiki they seem a lot less extreme than the "normal" Beastmen and the locals seem to worship them in some way)
Snake Men of Kuresh? (They exist, that's about it, highly unlikely to get in)

Order-aligned:
Kislev (Seems to be the most popular candidate for the starting order faction, makes more sense than DoW to me given their whole history of struggle against Chaos)
Dogs of War (Would be surprised if CA ignored them completely for the entire trilogy, them being mercs they can of course go everywhere. Pigbarter is the Darklands would be a possibility, they have a presence in the westernmost part Of Cathay's Great Bastion as well)
Cathay (Least likely of the three main options, would give the order side a massive boost though, what with it possibly being more powerful than even the Empire and all that. Kislev for the most part is a, very brave, doormat and DoW are a bunch of mercs rather than a proper order faction. Known to have Chaos cults which could provide some internal conflict)
Ind (Not very likely and very little lore but if they expand east to include Cathay it'd make sense to include the lands of Ind as well. Seem to have some reverence for the tiger-headed Beastmen)
Nippon (Highly improbable)

Other:
Ogres (Obvious inclusion)
Hobgoblins (Seen as traitors by the other Greenskins, largely vassals/slaves of the Chaos Dwarves)
Nagash (The big bad undead, his stronghold is just outside the current map)

Already introduced races with a presence/possible presence:
Greenskins (There's supposedly a crapton of them in the Darklands)
Skaven (Clan Rictus HQ is in the Darklands and Clan Eshin has a large presence in the east)
Vampires (Neferata so you can get her head for Khalida)
High Elves (Their colonies are already in the Vortex map, they're there to protect their trade with Ind and Cathay)
Dark Elves (Like to raid Ind and Cathay, Lokhir being a famous example)
Wood Elves (There are Worldroot entries in the southern part of the supposed map)
Lizardmen (Feral lizardmen inhabit the Dragon Isles south of the Darklands)
Dwarfs (Occupy the World Edge Mountains which could be included, CA might get creative with some lost Dwarf hold as well)
CA could always come up with some Imperial expeditions or Bretonnian errantries/crusades if they want Order factions for the baddies to fight.

[Daruwind]

We can also ask question what will be goal in Wh3 for core races. Wh1 is just Old World Brawl, it is basically ME on smaller map and I think ME2.0 will keep this trend just on bigger scale. But Vortex campaign has mechanics around it, for all core races. It makes sense for HE to try to keep Vortex up and for others to gain control/influence. Lizardmen were active in creation of Vortex, they helped from distance. For Skaven it makes sense to meddle in everything related to gaining global powers/magic and DE are schemers as well. TK and VC are off. Now imagine Wh3. What will be possible goal?

Ogres are easy, something about awakening Great Maw, big sacrifice ale Sotek/DE slaves..but that is hardly true for all other races. They hardly care about anything else except food and gold.
Chaos Dwarfs sounds like Empire building type. Reversing TKs to actually expand their empire with slaves and industry. Global dominance.
Chaos Deamons are also easy. Become number one, unite/conquer others, steam roll world. Easy question, where is almost every chaos incursion heading? All big ones usually heading into "Empire"

Kislev...is like WE or VC..live and let live. No greater plan to unlock world iceage
DoW/Southern Realm...not much to be said here. Gold, maybe travelling around to unlock RoR ala Norsca but they lack any kind of world domination scheme.

I simply fail to see any multi faction objectives, mechanics except simple conquer them all.. :/ Maybe those three factions, somekind of bar or general progress toward Great Maw awakening/Chaos blessings/empire building but no idea how to put in any good faction...

[lolIsuck]

"He who controls the spice controls the universe."

Yeah, I can't think of anything really. Keeping the trade routes intact and making sure the bad things don't get into their lands are really the only things the Order factions care about here. The latter obviously being more important.

[Squiggle]

Anyone know of a warhammer mod that just...removes lords and heroes from combat? I love the game but id prefer the combat be more similar to classic total war titles; armies vs armies, not heroes.

[Love Mountain]

That's a good question and something I'd be interested in myself.

[Steph]

You could remove heroes from the game, but not Lord: they are needed to create an army.

But I doubt any modder is working on that, since fantasy and heroes are at the core of Warhammer

[Daruwind]

New reddit post from Grace_CA:
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...er_not_snitch/

You'd better not snitch...

-Which basically confirmed the DLC to have Skaven more precisely Deathmaster Snikch and his Clan Eshin.
-We know the FLC LL is not Skaven so it really is pointing towards 2x DE LL...with "assassin" motive I would expect Shadowblade as DLC counterpart to Snikch (technically Tullaris/Kouran but not Rakarth ) and Malus Darkblade as FLC is still the best candidate.

EDIT: which is great news for completionist inside me as we would definitely see Clan Moulder and Throt/Skweel down the line. Plus Moulder is great "beast" theme for possible pairing with Beastmen (or again DE with Rakarth )

[Steph]

new DLC: "The assassin vs the Assassin".. what game mechanism could be added?

[Daruwind]

Variation of Alith Anar and his Infiltration mechanics for Snikch at least? Or if DE LL is not Shadowblade, it could be some executioner/sacrifice slave mechanics for Tullaris/Kouran?