Total War: Warhammer II announced

[Steph]

Nonono I fully agree that WH2 won´t get anymore faction packs. I was always specifically talking about WH3 preorder DLC. We know it will come and there were as well comment from Grace that the preorder was not yet decided.
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15807441

There will be faction packs for WH2. What is currently not planned are race pack.

H&B added several factions : Laurelorn, Golden Order, Markus expedition, Nakai...

The data is clear that, according to the original plan, the last part of the trilogy is supposed to feature the four Chaos deities and the Chaos Dwarves/Ogres as DLC

We all agree that WH3 will feature Chaos deities (I still think as one race with many LL, and faction specifities, more than 4 full races), Chaos Dwarves and Ogres.
Where I'd be disappointed is if we have only them.
We could have Kislev.
Maybe DoW/ Southern Realms.
Maybe Empire but it would require a significant upgrade to be considered a "new" race.

But still, I think it would be to "destruction focus".

I still hope for Cathay as an order faction... Maybe 3K success can fuel some hope , with the aim of the Chinese market.

Look at the last dev blog: it's in English, and Chinese. No French, (or Czech )

[Daruwind]

There will be faction packs for WH2. What is currently not planned are race pack.

Damn! I should not be writing in 3 AM....I was talking about Race Packs for WH2 of course (older Campaign Packs?) because our Lord Packs are Faction Packs...
(because my mind is dumb .. TK, VC, WE, Beastmen are for me Race/Campaign packs , Lord packs are Lord packs and Norsca/Bretonnia were for me kinda Faction Pack/Update ..just explaining where am I constantly loosing myself )

Okey, back to WH3...just put together what we know. There will be something like Vortex2.0 campaign and ME2.0 There will be a lot Chaos factions so their Vortex objective is simple, compete against all others, conquer them and then unleash invasion into somewhere? Chaos Dwarfs,Ogres that´s nothing..they are like filler/neutral at best and with all due respect, Kislev too, that is just speed bumb into Empire. Keeping playground just about N. Wastes, Dark Lands, there is nothing to destroy properly..no end of civilization

Now Ogres easily might have something with aweking the Great Maw, feeeding ..kinda Vampire Coast. Travelling around world and getting pieces of meat of different races. Chaos Dwarfs are easily like Tomb Kings with some scheming about world domination (books of Nagash )

If Kislev is preorder faction to guard the north way, Southern Realms/DoW guarding south way , Empire + some new big Empire faction like Middenheim.

I mean. If there is Cathay and it is the good faction of game three,the focus will on line Wastes - Dark Lands - Cathay. And honestly if we are speaking about end game. What do you imagine is typical Warhammer setting? Chaos/Deamon invasion into Cathay? Or Chaos/Deamon invasion up to feet of Karl Franz ;-) But if the line is Wastes - Kislev - Empire....See what I mean? Kislev has objective to stop Chaos. Empire is either fighting for survival or being goal for Chaos Gods. DoW/Southern Realms are then easily another man pool to fight Chaos. Even if majority of game is "destruction" focused, we need some good guys. At least one Core faction. Kislev can be preorder,Empire might get another LL ala Markus..leaving Souther Realms/DoW as good guys or Cathay.

I can show it on the maps below. While they are similar, they are very different at the same time
Left map - clear connection line Empire / Chaos, Kislev speed bumb, Dark Lands/Ogres at the side, similar for DoW/Southern Realms. Very simple setting from Warhammer.
Right map - Empire is way out of the way. So the champion of good side will be Cathay, but how many chaos incursion we know, how many invasions? And Kislev is completelly out of way as well.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(of course this is just long theorycrafting like usual. So far usually CA manages to throw us off track from any prediction. But from my point of view it is way more likely we will see campaign on basis Chaos/Empire even if Franz and Empire are just AI...)

[Steph]

If CA goes for the "left" option, it means a Game 3 maps which includes a large part of Game 1 as "good guys" to conquer. With the risk that customer complain that they already paid for Game1, and so "should get game 3 for 3". Game 3 becomes a kind of "DLC for Game 1", with half the map from game 1n, and half the factions too.
This would guarantee Kislev, a significant empire second update (all the knights orders, mroe playable faction), maybe Southern Realm.

If they go for the "right" option, it means opportunity to have Game 3 as a real independant game, and w'ell have Kislev / Empire in the ME (Mega Empire ).
This would require Cathay as main faction, but as you say, this is unlikely, since the focus should be Empire...

But there is maybe another option: the "North" way.

Map could go from Kisvlev/ East of Empire to the West, to the Western part of Cathay to the East, but not going too far South.

West: Chaos invasion, with Empire and Kislev to hold it, with more open fields battles.

East: Chaos invasion of Cathay, through the Great Bastion, and a focus on siege.

[Abdülmecid I]

Nonono I fully agree that WH2 won´t get anymore faction packs. I was always specifically talking about WH3 preorder DLC. We know it will come and there were as well comment from Grace that the preorder was not yet decided.
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15807441

Not to be pedantic, but what Grace said is that they are not going to reveal the information to the public so soon. I'd be really surprised if the pre-order incentive has not been already determined, especially considering how CA just confirmed that it's not going to feature Araby. As for the possibility of a Warhammer II faction as a pre-order DLC for Warhammer III, in my opinion, it was never very likely. Warhammer II sold less than its predecessor and, unlike the Mortal Empires campaign, Warhammer II and III cannot be combined, unless the customer has also purchased the original game. All this points towards a faction, whose lands are located either in Warhammer I or III. Therefore, Kislev is the perfect candidate, as it remains quite popular and unique and can also serve as a counter-balance for the Chaos hordes. In conclusion, although I'm not as certain about its inclusion as I am about the four Chaos deities being separate factions, I'll be really surprised if another race is chosen, instead of Kislev.

[Steph]

I'm not so sure.

I don't see tha game with only Chaos at start, I think they will make several FACTIONS, with LL and a few specific units, but no fully independant races.

They can have Ogres + Chaos Dwarves, and so need a 4th race if they keep the modus perandi from previous game.

Could be Cathay... Or much more likely Kislev.

Meaning the pr order could be DoW/SR.

Why? Because it could be a bonus for Game 2 Owner (via ME), an even Game 1 owner, even if theyr are not really featured in Game 3

[Daruwind]

Warhammer II sold less than its predecessor and, unlike the Mortal Empires campaign,

Actually this might be already wrong. SteamDB is showing Wh1 as having 1-2 millions owners and Wh2 as 2-5 millions. Funnily 3K is already also 2-5 millions range...with recent comment that Vampire Coast, W&P and H&B were all the best DLCs released (selling most copies) in history...

Wh1 - https://steamdb.info/app/364360/graphs/
Wh2 - https://steamdb.info/app/594570/graphs/
3K - https://steamdb.info/app/779340/graphs/

It is fair point against ME2.0 that people need all three game. On other hand it is probably the biggest incentive to get it... :-) CA discontinued Wh1 campaign and similar thing will probably happen to Vortex and ME, too many things to constantly patch. And they will focus on new WH3 main campaign (like Vortex) and ME2.0..but we will see. :-)

And about Chaos gods, I would say the game will start with like 2 Chaos Gods each one with 2 LLs and then we definitely need two other races. Even this way people might say the game has effectively just "3" starting races...

[Welsh Dragon]

In my view the most likely Warhammer 3 base game races are:

• Chaos Demons (2 legendary lords/factions based around different gods. Probably Khorne as he's the one I often seem to see people mentioning, and one other.)
• Chaos Dwarves (2 legendary lords/factions. Offers a different take on Chaos that could perhaps lean more into Chaos Warriors territory?)
• Ogre Kingdoms (2 legendary lords/factions. One of the main non-Chaos races still missing, and I could see them being a selling point as they offer a more monstrous but non-Chaos race.)
• Kislev maybe? (2 legendary lords/factions. To give a more relatable/heroic race for non-Warhammer fans like Empire in 1 and High Elves in 2.)

As for the early adopter bonus:

• Another flavour of Chaos might be an option (if they want to risk the Chaos fandom backlash.)
• Dogs of War are a mercenary force, so I could see them incorporated along the lines of Markus (their "homeland" may be in a different game, but doesn't mean they have to start there. And we already have some LL with different start positions in Mortal Empires.)
• Another possibility I think is perhaps a bumper Lord Pack (an extra legendary lord for each of the WH3 base game races.)
• Or they could go the Thrones of Britannia route and have it be something completely different.

Then DLC would be mostly Lord Packs, much like Warhammer 2. (I can't see either 2 or 3 having as many Race/Campaign packs as 1 due to geography. i.e. There are more fleshed out races in the area covered by Warhammer 1 than 2 or 3.)

This seems to me a more likely (and importantly sellable) set up than a game focusing entirely or predominantly on Chaos, which might appeal to Warhammer fans, but perhaps not so much the general public.

Just my two pence.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[Daruwind]

It is fair point that the most playable races are Empire and HE as they are humanlike..So CA definitely will have at least one good, human like race at the release date.

Welsh, problem with Kislev is the number of LLs. You can have two Legendary Lords at best (unless CA will invent a lot more ). All other core races from both games have like 4+ , we are now reaching 6 with lizardmen and HE/Skaven will probably have 6 soon too..

Chaos, Southern Realms, Chaos Dwarfs are easily 4+ characters
Ogres have exactly 4 notable characters
Kislev has 2 with one being technically dead (but that´s not big deal, it is similar to a few otehr characters we already have )

Kislev is simply similar to Norsca (or Araby in theory )

[The Wandering Storyteller]

I am not at all happy with this decision but there isn’t much I can say or do. I am confirming that Cathay will not show up, and that Abdul was right. I take no pleasure in typing these words. CIN isn’t coming. All that speculation was wasted. If Araby isn’t coming then forget CIN.

I do not wish to purchase game 3 and I have no interest in Kislev. But what can I say? I was always a causal player in this place. Chaos doesn’t interest me nor Orgres. This is one persons opinion. I enjoy Warhammer, but am seriously disapointed.

Well Abudal, you got what you want. Happy playing. I’m just a part of a general public. I am tired of European settings though and it is time total war moved on to more Asian or even African settings.

[Abdülmecid I]

Hey, I love bragging, but it's way too early for that! In all seriousness, the "4 Chaos gods" speculation is not my desire, but a hypothesis I personally consider as the most probable, based on the Datamine leak, common sense, the behaviour of the Warhammer customers and the franchise's lore. I was never attracted to fantasy, so I'm not emotionally invested in the subject of playable factions, as I was, for example, when the laughable Iceni were chosen, instead of my beloved Seleucids! Actually, the essential point of my argument is that we should not let wishful thinking influence us or otherwise frustration will inevitably follow.

Especially the membership of reddit is exceptionally vulnerable to hypes built upon thin air, which often results into massive uproars, despite the fact that the "controversies" are much smaller in scale than those of the past, like the misleading marketing or cut-out content of Rome II. I just advise for caution, when all indications point towards something quite different to the expectations of Total War fandom and I genuinely understand your disappointment concerning the prospect of the Far East not being featured in the games.

Actually this might be already wrong. SteamDB is showing Wh1 as having 1-2 millions owners and Wh2 as 2-5 millions. Funnily 3K is already also 2-5 millions range...with recent comment that Vampire Coast, W&P and H&B were all the best DLCs released (selling most copies) in history...

Interesting information, but I am not convinced, as Steam Spy is notoriously unreliable. The Ars Technica leak revealed back in the summer of 2018 that Warhammer I had surpassed the 2 million limit, while its successor was around 1.3 millions. I don't doubt that in the meantime the sales of Warhammer II were disproportionately larger than those of Warhammer I, but what Steamspy suggests seems totally absurd for such a short period of time.

[Welsh Dragon]

It is fair point that the most playable races are Empire and HE as they are humanlike..So CA definitely will have at least one good, human like race at the release date.

Welsh, problem with Kislev is the number of LLs. You can have two Legendary Lords at best (unless CA will invent a lot more ). All other core races from both games have like 4+ , we are now reaching 6 with lizardmen and HE/Skaven will probably have 6 soon too..

Chaos, Southern Realms, Chaos Dwarfs are easily 4+ characters
Ogres have exactly 4 notable characters
Kislev has 2 with one being technically dead (but that´s not big deal, it is similar to a few otehr characters we already have )

Kislev is simply similar to Norsca (or Araby in theory )

Well, I mean Vampire Coast only had two (Luthor Harkon and Count Noctilus,) CA drafted in a third (Aranessa Saltspite,) and created a fourth (Cylostra Direfin,) so it can be done. But I do get what you mean, Kislev don't tick all the boxes. I just can see them going for someone like that, being able to draw upon Russia's history of valiant defences against overwhelming forces to give Warhammer 3 a "heroic" protagonist race.

But, as ever, my knowledge of Warhammer is limited. I just enjoy theory crafting from time to time.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[perablenta]

I invited the developers and publishers, of games that I do most videos about on my channel and which get the most views, to my 1,000,000 video views celebration. I got a response from Creative Assembly PR already. And I am still waiting on a response from Paradox PR and Maxis(EA). I can tell your already to expect game and DLC giveaways as the developers of Total War where generous! https://www.youtube.com/user/perafilozof

[Daruwind]

We got updated FLC chart. Looks like next is just FLC LL and from CA´s comments it won´t be Skaven. So ...We won´t see Lizardmen, Skavens and HE are probably off for Greenskins so next Wh2 race is DE...DE vs somehting we are not expecting...like Bretonnia? Only factions not requiring update are Bret, Dwarfs, Vampires and possibly Norsca. And one CA comment about vampires was that nothing son enough... I don´t think we will get LLs for three factions in total (counting DLC+FLC like Skaven vs Dwarfs + Bretonnia) leaving Bretonnia and Norsca?

and video which I cannot manage to link here...
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...u_think_he_is/

[Abdülmecid I]

I wonder why so many believed that Thanquol was the strongest candidate. It had been essentially confirmed that it will feature an elf, which also matches the Christmas theme, something that cannot be said for mouses. Apparently, high elves are more suitable for the 2020 featuring the Greenskins (Grom the Paunch, probably), so indeed Dark Elves and Maulus are the only remaining option. I doubt he will be paired with anybody, to be honest. It's just a small holiday update and the twitter video clearly mentions one legendary lord, in singular and not plural form.

[Mhaedros]

Clearly you haven't heard the old Swedish children's rhyme, Mössens Julafton (Christmas of the Mice).

Upon further investigation, the origin seems to be Norwegian rather than Swedish, but the Swedes perfected it, damnit!

[Daruwind]

Because it was fitting together with all hints? Lizardmen got two LLs so we are expecting two more LLs for all other WH2 core races. We knew Greenskins are not next and HE are very very good paring with them. That is leaving DE and Skaven. And Update requirement removes WE, Beastmen (and WoC ) as possible factions, they need it. So that´s leaving just Dwarfs, Vampire Counts (they have too much + CA´s comment), Bretonnia and possibly Norsca+WoC. WoC are probably for WH3, Norsca..is quite good + almost nobody is really asking for Norsca update and Bretonnia is still "core but free" faction so could be out but not for 100%.

So we have:
DE
Skaven

Dwarfs
Bretonnia (not fully core)
Norsca (quite complete)
Vampire Coast (not soon)

And from those Skaven vs Dwarfs are another natural pairing, plus theme as master engineer/rune master vs master mutator. Technical crafting vs bioengineering.Plus there were like one comment that CA would love to add more Skaven to around Hell Pit...that´s easily Clan Moulder under Throt and that means Thanquol as he is another super popular character. I was always little skeptical to imagine Gotrek+Felix but now? Thanquol will appear, question is just timing. But Abdul you are right that we can get Throt + Snikch. Plus it is very easy to add Skaven into ANY map. And that Thanquol could be kept for Wh3. With Vermin Lord etc..

DE also have good pluses. Naggaroth can use a few more LLs. Malus is very popular and due to his search for items is natural theme for mechanics. But problem is natural oponent. Beast theme? With Beastmen or with Skaven? Norsca is not Order faction and only Bretonnia might be good pair. Some kind of questing/crusading mechanics for new lord? Probably Araby? Dwarfs and DE...it is little War of Vengeance all over but that is old history...

I just just put aside
HE/Greenskins
Skaven/Dwarfs

so it is not leaving a lot space. DE/Bretonnia is best pick according to my knowledge. :-)

[Abdülmecid I]

Am I missing something here? Why are we searching for a pair? Both in the video and in the subsequent tweet, Creative Assembly explicitly mentions that there will be only one Legendary Lord, not two. After all, it's a free DLC, which means more limited in scope than its fully-paid colleagues, so I guess it will focus on Maulus Darkblade or a High Elf hero, while also including a number of tweaks and cosmetic additions, probably in the same spirit as Rome's II Halloween update.

[Daruwind]

Now I´m confused too. You think Abdul that there will be no paid DLC (+FLC) but just the FLC itself, right? I saw no such info so far, but confusion might be due to the fact that CA is teasing FLC part alone.... The FLC chart is saying nothing about paid DLC, it is just free content. And there was CA comment about no update this time but that was just about Old World Rework. It is again saying nothing disabling possible DLC at max limiting options which factions might be in.

Looking at https://steamdb.info/app/594570/dlc/
there are two entries with same age, as of lately CA is adding entries for next release. Like next DLC+FLC. Plus numbering is

1158181 SteamDB Unknown App 1158181 27 days ago
1158180 SteamDB Unknown App 1158180 27 days ago

1074321 Gor-Rok
1074320 The Hunter and the Beast

835671 Lokhir Fellheart
835670 Curse of the Vampire Coast

See? Often similar numbers mean DLC+accompanying FLC.

[Steph]

CA_James just confirmed next DLC is not a Cross Game DLC.

So very likely DE/Skaven (50%), or smaller chance DE/HE (30), or even HE/Skaven (20%).

CA didn't it will be a FLC for Festag. They said the FLC will only have a LL, with no oldworld update.

[Daruwind]

Previously it sounded like CA will do 4 more Lord Packs for 4 Wh2 core races and tie in 4 Old World Updates. Exactly as Lizardmen + Empire (Hunter/Beast DLC), then Elthation + Grom.....So question is, is this DLC/FLC additional? On top of that or instead of two of them? Second option would probably point to DE/Skaven (Rakarth vs Throt + FLC Malus Beast theme), first one would be way harder to quess..basically we need factions with a lot characters for all those DLCs...

Technically what about...TK ? Because CA is like spanish inquisition...every time they do something we are not expecting at all. There is still Herald Nekaph, Apophas, Ramhotep..we can still dig out a few possible units as well. Melee Bone Giant for example, Scarab Titan some common skeleton boys..

Let´s say Lizardmen won´t get more stuff, Vampire Coast...Cylostra..no nothing more So HE, DE, Skaven but not FLC for them...
-Skaven would be good pick as they have a lot of possible characters still left (Throt/Skweel, Snikch, Thanquol) they can easily be even in two DLCs..
-HE also have a lot characters left (leaving Eltharion for Greenskins, there is still Imrik, Caradryan - also strong candidate for possible travelling round map type adventure)
-only DE feel little full (Malus but then who? Rakarth - making sense for beast them so either clan Moulder or Beastmen, Shadowblade feels more like Hero type..)

So strongest candidates
DE/Skaven - Rakarth vs Throt + FLC Malus Beast theme...because Clan Moulder are big hole here...
DE/Skaven - Snikch vs Darkblade (or somebody like Kouran, Tullaris) + Malus Assassins theme (this is good combination for future...leaving Rakarth for possible DLC with Beastmen, leaving Throt/Thaquol for possible DLC with Dwarfs)
DE/HE with Malus/Caradryan + Imrik like adventures around map and finding items,deamons,magic
DE/TK with Malus - Malus again going for shiny toys