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Thread: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

  1. #1
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    After watching Master and Commander and Waterloo, decided to give ETW a run.. I also read somewhere that CA said they may go back and fix it as a lot of people still play it.

    The game isn`t bad in part, and there`s a LOT of potential. But what use is potential if it is not brought up to it?

    Sieges- ugh. Still awful.

    1.Campaign map: Enemies never retreat, no matter what the number. Not troops nor ships.
    2.Maratha still causes that dreaded slowdown halfway into the game (can`t believe CA never sorted that out).
    3. Diplomacy- Playing as British -"Give me Ireland, give me Scotland!" From everyone, even the Indians... again, and again, and again.
    4. Peace? Anyone want peace? nope, let`s just fight no matter what.

    That said campaign Ai isn`t that bad as at least the enemy will do naval invasions on me and make me fight.

    Battles aren`t bad until...
    1. Cavalry that react when you TARGET them, not when actually under fire. Bad coding. I can literally `dance` them by targetting, not targetting.
    2. Troops get easily confused, both yours and theirs, especially in sieges.
    3. Arty goes into weird walking mode through troops and become unkillable.

    Etc, etc, etc.

    MODs do save the situation a bit. Sieges can be just got rid of and with the smoke/blood mods is pretty immersive in battles.

    You`d think if CA truly were professional creative artists it would bug them in leaving such a big and unique game so incomplete, and they would go back and fix these most glaring problems, even years later, but no, they just can`t be arsed.

    CA and their carrot-on-a-stick routine of `maybe we`ll fix it` - such nonsense. Pity there really isn`t anything better out there when you want up in your face 18th century battles and strategy.

  2. #2
    onmy6's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Well said Warrior

    ETW is my fav TW game but out of the box it's not so good.

    Looking through some the code it did seem as though they were plan on an even bigger and better game
    but Sega must have pushed up the deadline to get it out, which is a shame
    so a lot of the codes just never got implemented
    With that said though ETW is my favorite TW game and with some of the magnificent mods available
    and NTW graphic which can now be implemented, it's 10 times better than the "out of box experience"

    Just my 2 cents worth

  3. #3
    baselhun's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Don't buy their game again, I'll do the same. I had enough with people don't care about quality rather than trying to sell arcadish game to kiddos.

  4. #4
    Markmilan's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Quote Originally Posted by onmy6 View Post
    Well said Warrior

    ETW is my fav TW game but out of the box it's not so good.

    Looking through some the code it did seem as though they were plan on an even bigger and better game
    but Sega must have pushed up the deadline to get it out, which is a shame
    so a lot of the codes just never got implemented
    With that said though ETW is my favorite TW game and with some of the magnificent mods available
    and NTW graphic which can now be implemented, it's 10 times better than the "out of box experience"

    Just my 2 cents worth

    ETW is my fav game as well. NTW is very good but just Europe is boring which is a shame as the map of europe, graphics, units, diplomacy, cannons are so much better - the great thing about empire is the different theatres.

    What is/are the mods you play with Empire? I'm still playing vanilla but with small Scottish highlanders recruitable mod.

  5. #5
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Quote Originally Posted by onmy6 View Post
    Well said Warrior

    ETW is my fav TW game but out of the box it's not so good.

    Looking through some the code it did seem as though they were plan on an even bigger and better game
    but Sega must have pushed up the deadline to get it out, which is a shame
    so a lot of the codes just never got implemented
    With that said though ETW is my favorite TW game and with some of the magnificent mods available
    and NTW graphic which can now be implemented, it's 10 times better than the "out of box experience"

    Just my 2 cents worth
    I was thinking of trying NTW, but like Markmilan I like the several theatres feel. I`ll probably look at it after this.

    Just wish CA would show some love for ETW and clean up the holes. It has such promise...

  6. #6
    onmy6's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    NTW is cool although it gets boring fast but IMO it's nowhere near as cool as Empire by a long chalk. when i said NTW graphics, what I meant was there is a mod here on TWCentre that has the NTW graphics or effects ported over for ETW, it improves the battle map, campaign map tremendously, it's aesthetically beautiful, breathes new life into the tired old maps

  7. #7
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Quote Originally Posted by onmy6 View Post
    NTW is cool although it gets boring fast but IMO it's nowhere near as cool as Empire by a long chalk. when i said NTW graphics, what I meant was there is a mod here on TWCentre that has the NTW graphics or effects ported over for ETW, it improves the battle map, campaign map tremendously, it's aesthetically beautiful, breathes new life into the tired old maps
    I`ll have a look. Can`t be hard to find

    What is/are the mods you play with Empire? I'm still playing vanilla but with small Scottish highlanders recruitable mod.
    Me personally, I have..

    Aum Mod pack.
    Mod bsm 1.4
    Fonts larger pack. (fonts always too small to me).
    Diplomatic attitudes - Not sure if working, maybe I need to start a new game.

    Pike slave trade.
    Shokh hates sieges pack- Hmm, not sure if this is working.
    No tracers. I can tell quite easily where everyone is shooting without tracers.
    Last edited by Humble Warrior; March 31, 2017 at 10:51 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Couple of the biggest fixes they could have made should have been: Sieges (I like sieges as they were the primary form of combat in the era simulated, but were far more formal than the format allows), and Unrest and Maintenance (in lieu of actual logistics). While the idea of nationality was fully cemented until the 2nd half of the 18th Century, a wonderful mechanism would be not to allow unrest to improve so long as you're at war with the original owner of a province, triple the unrest possible in the cultural centers of various nations (I've experimented with this locally, it's damned hard to keep some of the really big provinces like France), and adjust the maintenance and replacement costs for units based on distance from the nearest friendly point where that unit could be produced (including ships at sea) doubling for enemy territory and doubling again for winter. (you'd better have a good treasury if you want to embark on a winter campaign) In all, simple that that I'll admit are a bit gamey but would add a simulated reality to the game and make it that much tougher to win, even at lower levels.

  9. #9

    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    I've had alot of fun with Empire (modded) but the game pales in it's incompleteness compared to Europa Universalis. EU is the better game and so is Fall of the Samurai compared to Empire.

  10. #10
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    [...]
    Shokh hates sieges pack- Hmm, not sure if this is working.[...].
    There is a simple way to check this. Select one of your region capitals which is not already fortified. Does the game allow you to fortify it? If not, the mod is working. Some region capitals are fortified at the beginning; this mod does not remove forts from those capitals. The mod works for me. Is it in your C:/ProgramFiles(x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/Empire Total War/data folder (or equivalent, depending on your operating system)?

  11. #11
    onmy6's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Markmilan View Post
    ETW is my fav game as well. NTW is very good but just Europe is boring which is a shame as the map of europe, graphics, units, diplomacy, cannons are so much better - the great thing about empire is the different theatres.

    What is/are the mods you play with Empire? I'm still playing vanilla but with small Scottish highlanders recruitable mod.
    Hi Markmilan

    The mods I use are (although I've altered them abit so the work together)

    Regiments of American Revolutionary Wars (altered)
    Aditional Units Mod - Empire (DM version)
    DarthMod 8.01 w/navy pack, cannon units 6, BSM, deploy, etc etc (altered)
    Huron Warparty
    French & Indian Wars
    Minor factions revenge (altered)
    NTW Graphics for ETW mod
    UPC english (altered)

  12. #12
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    There is a simple way to check this. Select one of your region capitals which is not already fortified. Does the game allow you to fortify it? If not, the mod is working. Some region capitals are fortified at the beginning; this mod does not remove forts from those capitals. The mod works for me. Is it in your C:/ProgramFiles(x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/Empire Total War/data folder (or equivalent, depending on your operating system)?
    Ah... I see. That`s what had me confused. It is working after all. Thanks.


    I`ve been avoiding Darthmod cos I wanted to see if anything had changed in the basic game. However, I`ll probably install dartmod now and restart.
    Last edited by Humble Warrior; April 01, 2017 at 06:27 AM.

  13. #13
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    I've tried these mods in the past and quite often I start a new campaign in ETF or continue playing until I get bored, because the AI makes me bored overtime.

    DME
    TAR
    ETF (try the early campaign by Vae Victis via the "More Content" menu in ETF)
    Greek mod with AOR
    Under patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader.

  14. #14

    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    I also love this game so badly, nothing out there which could be comparable .But the Tragedy is , you can mod the hell out of this game it doesnt matter,
    i came too the point so often where my campaigns were broken in the middle, so i had to give up every time :[
    My only hope is ,they will release the Source Code some Day,well wil never happen just dreamin ^^ or we get a worthy successor ,
    but for the sake of streamlining and down dumping i think i wouldnt be excited that much .
    Europe Universalis are great games due to their historical accuracy , but they are counting more on Imagination ^^
    18th century was time of warfare,but playing such events out with only numbers doesnt match that in a worthy way .
    Last edited by Bavarian Grenadier; December 06, 2017 at 03:13 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    After watching Master and Commander and Waterloo, decided to give ETW a run.. I also read somewhere that CA said they may go back and fix it as a lot of people still play it.

    The game isn`t bad in part, and there`s a LOT of potential. But what use is potential if it is not brought up to it?

    Sieges- ugh. Still awful.

    1.Campaign map: Enemies never retreat, no matter what the number. Not troops nor ships.
    2.Maratha still causes that dreaded slowdown halfway into the game (can`t believe CA never sorted that out).
    3. Diplomacy- Playing as British -"Give me Ireland, give me Scotland!" From everyone, even the Indians... again, and again, and again.
    4. Peace? Anyone want peace? nope, let`s just fight no matter what.

    That said campaign Ai isn`t that bad as at least the enemy will do naval invasions on me and make me fight.

    Battles aren`t bad until...
    1. Cavalry that react when you TARGET them, not when actually under fire. Bad coding. I can literally `dance` them by targetting, not targetting.
    2. Troops get easily confused, both yours and theirs, especially in sieges.
    3. Arty goes into weird walking mode through troops and become unkillable.

    Etc, etc, etc.

    MODs do save the situation a bit. Sieges can be just got rid of and with the smoke/blood mods is pretty immersive in battles.

    You`d think if CA truly were professional creative artists it would bug them in leaving such a big and unique game so incomplete, and they would go back and fix these most glaring problems, even years later, but no, they just can`t be arsed.

    CA and their carrot-on-a-stick routine of `maybe we`ll fix it` - such nonsense. Pity there really isn`t anything better out there when you want up in your face 18th century battles and strategy.
    What are you talking about? They did fix it! Didnt you hear? Its a little file called 'NapoleonTotalWar.exe'

    I never bought another TW game after Empire brought such a titanic amount of unpolishedness to a game that would, if released a year later and with fixed everything, been amazing.

    Instead, Sega says 'Ok, ETW came out wrong. Lets now make a good version of the exact same ing game and call it Napoleon Total War'.

    Do you think they would spend time and effort to fix something when they can release the same game under a different name and call it fixed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean=A=Luc View Post
    What the hell is wrong with you people?

  16. #16
    EoNightcore's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Great Ambition.

    Horrible Execution.

    Still fun.

    Would have been more fun with polish.

  17. #17
    Epic28's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    The Ottoman turn bug/late game lag is what really hampers ETW for me.. Unbelievably horrible bug to of never resolved officially by CA.

    Knowing my campaign will inevitably come to a crawl during end turn times reaching 1 hour+. I've been exclusively using DarthMod 8.01 for my modding experience and playing Austria and invading Ottomans myself, it's the only way I've been able to prevent the bug from happening. I've tried every fix in the book but to no avail... Really too bad because I've been itching to play another faction in the campaign, but can't bring myself to start it knowing i'll be forced to abandon it too early.
    Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse.
    All war depends upon it.

  18. #18

    Default Re: So they never did go back to fix Empire, I see ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    After watching Master and Commander and Waterloo, decided to give ETW a run.. I also read somewhere that CA said they may go back and fix it as a lot of people still play it.

    The game isn`t bad in part, and there`s a LOT of potential. But what use is potential if it is not brought up to it?

    Sieges- ugh. Still awful.

    1.Campaign map: Enemies never retreat, no matter what the number. Not troops nor ships.
    2.Maratha still causes that dreaded slowdown halfway into the game (can`t believe CA never sorted that out).
    3. Diplomacy- Playing as British -"Give me Ireland, give me Scotland!" From everyone, even the Indians... again, and again, and again.
    4. Peace? Anyone want peace? nope, let`s just fight no matter what.

    That said campaign Ai isn`t that bad as at least the enemy will do naval invasions on me and make me fight.

    Battles aren`t bad until...
    1. Cavalry that react when you TARGET them, not when actually under fire. Bad coding. I can literally `dance` them by targetting, not targetting.
    2. Troops get easily confused, both yours and theirs, especially in sieges.
    3. Arty goes into weird walking mode through troops and become unkillable.

    Etc, etc, etc.

    MODs do save the situation a bit. Sieges can be just got rid of and with the smoke/blood mods is pretty immersive in battles.

    You`d think if CA truly were professional creative artists it would bug them in leaving such a big and unique game so incomplete, and they would go back and fix these most glaring problems, even years later, but no, they just can`t be arsed.

    CA and their carrot-on-a-stick routine of `maybe we`ll fix it` - such nonsense. Pity there really isn`t anything better out there when you want up in your face 18th century battles and strategy.

    Some of these things are fixable actually, and i did fix them in my ER mod.

    For example:
    - Cavalry reacting on targeting them - this can be solved by giving artillery "can snipe" attribute. This way, artillery will fire "hidden" therefore Cavalry script will never activate. Instead, cavalry will try to get out from danger after being hit. overall, i would say all units could benefit from "can snipe" attribute this way.. only if there was some easy way how to disable crouching animations from infantry units...

    - Diplomacy region requests - you can disable these in episodic scripting (check my mod, i have separate file for every playable faction) you can completely disable region trading, or only allow player faction to initiate it. Works quite well..

    - Artillery walking - i think here, its best to make majority of artillery units unmovable, so it will never walk like this. Historically, artillery was moved by civilian contractors, which didnt liked to be shot at, as they were only payed for transport, not to fight.. therefore it was common for them to bail out, or refuse to move guns into danger. Only guns that were movable were small regimental pieces, 3-4pdrs. Another option how to solve this, is to give artillery train same amount of hitpoints as unit has men - this way, you will need to hit such unit same amount of times as you would need to, to kill all men in the unit.

    Anyway, yes, Empire is broken game, full of things that don't work, are implemented just half way, while base game concept lacks in many areas.. they fixed some in Napoleon Total War, which is slightly better, but fundamental issues are kept even there..

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