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Thread: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

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    Agrippa19's Avatar Tiro
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    Default How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    I would just like to hear how others manage their character's political careers.

    For me 200 turns in, I think I've found a system that works but will soon run into trouble as I expand further. Right now I've conquered all of Sicily, N. Africa, all western med Islands, South Gaul, Illyria and planning on moving into Greece next.

    I find that fighting on 2 fronts is extremely undesirable in this mod above all others, certainly manageable but causes more problems than it's worth.

    I will school all coming of age characters in a city that has at least a 2nd tier academy. From 16-21 they complete their education without leaving the settlement. Initially this school was just Rome but after years of expansion this now includes Capua, Ariminium, Arretium,Luceria and even Carthage and Massalia as characters come of age in far off lands. The traits I look out for are 'man grown', 'cultured' or 'bureaucrat' (is this a trait gained through education?)before beginning their military careers. If a character gets the 'unschooled' trait I relegate them to govern an unimportant settlement with a ludus until they show signs of improvement.

    At 21 years old my young educated Romans get stationed with the legions and complete tours of Sicily fighting rebels or partake in campaigns wherever the fighting is more intense. The army will always have a (Pro)/Consul or (Pro)/Praetor leading, with 2-3 characters simply gaining experience for their political careers. It''s expected that they stay on the move until the age of 26/27 at the least and hopefully be engaged in battles that give them experience but do not put their lives at risk. I will usually avoid full stacks when multiple characters are in the army and will only use their cav very carefully. Usually only to mop up routers to capture as slaves.

    By 25/26 they have usually become tribunis militums and and many are eligible for questership. However when hovering over the trait many still do not have enough experience. This means they will stay with the army until maybe 30 by which time when hovering over the trait it says their experience will help them to advance far. Then it's time to race back to Roma in time for the elections.

    Italy is the hotbed for Characters who have begin the cursus Honorum. Every governor is a quaester, aedile plebis/curilis/ tribunis plebis or praetor while the Consuls are outside Italy leading the campaigns. Sometimes the Praetors will lead young characters and the army within Italy fighting rebels or even fighting off any random incursions such as the hording Boii in search of a homeland and so forth. However some characters I have not got them engaged in the cursus honorum and they govern cities that are too far from Rome to be running to every winter, but they still become good governors.

    The election process often means that most winters there is a scramble towards Rome leaving some cities ungoverned for one turn while characters are partaking in the elctions. Once they begin their political careers they do not partake in the military again until they reach praetor or consul.

    If a character becomes consul in his early 40's I would consider allowing him run for consul twice if he was a particularly gifted General. However the main goal is for each consul to achieve significant victories against the main enemies and receive a Triumph in Rome. Then they retire to become the Provincae Rectae or provincial Governor of Sicilia, Cisalpine Gaul or wherever. This means they don't become permanent governors until 50 years old usually, however with the 4tpy this means they have usually at least 60-80 turns as Provincial Governor. Only the faction leader stays in Rome and I always elect an older character nearing the consulate and preferably patrician to be heir.

    I have always made territories Roman provinces but now I'm thing of making Spain and Greece free states when conquered, so that I can elect client rulers, allowing my FM's to remain within Rome and engage in politics. Later I'll probably convert some key settlements to Provinces to allow a former consul to become Provincae Rectae of that region. However I'm finding some regions difficult to get the provincial governor (PG) ancillary. I'm guessing I might have too many ancillaries and will need to transfer them to younger characters before getting the PG trait and thus finishing their cursus honorum and military careers, allowing them to retire in the provinces. Could anybody also direct me to a link that explain what cities and traits are linked to the Provincial Governor ancillary? Thanks and I'd like to hear how you all mange it too!

    This is such a great mod once you get the hang of the traits, so immersive. Two criticisms I have though is the stability and the battles. I'm getting far too many crashes unlike other M2TW mods and I'm afraid my latest one is game breaking over 200 turns in and I can't get the error log to tell me what's wrong. I'm awae this is still unfinished though. And the battle formations feel very out of sync. The enemy will usually divide their cav very far away from their infantry and it feels more like an error than a tactic. Just my opinion. All in all though great stuff!

  2. #2
    postm00v's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    In my last game I've had some trouble with the education, where a couple of generals gained the 'Unschooled' trait, so I'll have to look out for that in my next game. Usually a character stays in Rome until they become 20. They then spend some time with the military, until they become eligible for Quaestor.

    A quaestor governs a city for a full term, which lasts one year. He then returns to Rome.
    Plebeian/Curule Aediles : From what I understand is that Aediles were in charge of public works and organizing festivals, so they stay in Rome for their entire term.
    Tribunus Plebis : Historically they have no actual power outside the walls of Rome, so they stay in Rome as well.
    Praetors : They lead a praetorian legion. Once they become propraetors they will either govern a province, or stay with the legion.
    Consuls : They lead the consular legion. I only keep one, maybe two consular legions at any time.
    Censors and the Pontifex Maximus stay in Rome.

    The provincial governor should always be a sitting (pro)consul or a (pro)praetor.

  3. #3

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Important note: I've drank a few beers and I will not bother reading the posts for the time being, as they are too long. I am sure you two had something smart to say

    I will answer the title/question.

    I park all my young FMs outside my starting cities in Italy. They get military service points that way. Once they qualify for the first office, it's just a matter of rotating them from where ever they are at back to Rome for the elections. My last Roman campaign was full of praetors/propraetors/consuls/proconsuls.

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    Agrippa19's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    @postm00v. Do you keep all characters with offices in Rome then even when the elections are not happening, does this effect traits? Wouldn't this mean many cities don't have a governor then? I usually leave them govern cities around central Italy until election season.

    Also do the provincial governors have to have the trait Pro Consul/Praetor or is it sufficient that they just held those offices sometime in the past after they lose the proconsul/propraetor trait. I thought that must have been consul to get the provincial rectae.

    @Rad.. I guess my posts can be a bit long somtimes. Do you just have a stack of young FM's outside Rome the whole time and leave them there for 30-40 turns rather attach them to campaigning armies?

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    postm00v's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    I keep the Aediles,Tribunus Plebis,Censor and the Pontifex Maximus in Rome. Characters can only govern a city if they have an office with imperium, that does mean cities are often without governors. I have no idea if this affects traits.

  6. #6

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    @Agrippa - I generally avoid having them in my main battle stacks because two FM units (the commanding general and the young rookie) would be too overpowered in my opinion. They are usually behind the main army on their own and without troops, as to not get the no-imperium penalty. What I do is give them small tasks which they can finish within a turn and with few troops, like mopping up enemy stragglers... something a tribune might actually do while being subordinate to a magistrate with imperium.

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    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Lots of cities with no governors is generally a sign you're expanding too fast, and not making use of Allied Governments.

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    postm00v's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    I try to expand historically, but I must admit I don't use Allied Governments at all. I was planning on using them in my next game though.

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    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    I don't. I avoid playing Romans ever since this horribly designed micro-management heavy trait system was added to cripple their gameplay.

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    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    I don't. I avoid playing Romans ever since this horribly designed micro-management heavy trait system was added to cripple their gameplay.
    It's a historically-appropriate system for the easiest faction in the game. If that's too difficult for you, we won't lose any sleep over it.

  11. #11

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    The Cursus Honorum is the number 1 roleplay enabler in the game. I can't wait until other factions get as complex as Rome! We're off to a good start with Carthage

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    Agrippa19's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    I think this mod is like an interactive history lesson. You can't really just start a campaign as the Romans and enjoy it if you don't read a bit about the trait system first. However once you've got the hang of it, it's certainly more immersive than most other mods. This is at least the case for me because the Roman era is far more interesting to me than the medieval ages. However one thing I can't get over is the ctd's. I still can't tell if it's just me, did I install this wrong or whatever as I don't get anywhere near this level of instability on SS6.4 or any other mods. But if I could get the stability issue sorted this would be by no comparison my favourite mod.

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    Agrippa19's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Lots of cities with no governors is generally a sign you're expanding too fast, and not making use of Allied Governments.
    About this. I was probably 200+ turns in in my roman campaign. Empire including N Africa, Italy, West med islands and south gaul, maybe 30 regions in 200 turns which I don't think is blitzing, I had made 90% of these regions provinces with only some far flung regions as allied governments. My next target was Illyria with all their mines that when developed could give 2000+ income a turn. That could support a full legion's upkeep so I thought would be a wise target next. However my understanding was that allied governments cut back severely on income. But I would probably need to start utilising client ruler's soon. Is it a bad idea to set up client ruler's in regions that could possibly be extremely helpful to my economy?

  14. #14

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    For starters, you can't build level 2 mines in Client States. In fact, highest level of infrastructure buildings (roads, markets etc) are not available.

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    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa19 View Post
    About this. I was probably 200+ turns in in my roman campaign. Empire including N Africa, Italy, West med islands and south gaul, maybe 30 regions in 200 turns which I don't think is blitzing, I had made 90% of these regions provinces with only some far flung regions as allied governments. My next target was Illyria with all their mines that when developed could give 2000+ income a turn. That could support a full legion's upkeep so I thought would be a wise target next. However my understanding was that allied governments cut back severely on income. But I would probably need to start utilising client ruler's soon. Is it a bad idea to set up client ruler's in regions that could possibly be extremely helpful to my economy?
    30 regions in 200 turns is a little faster than one settlement every 7 turns - which to my mind is pretty fast. Bear in mind the historical Romans had only taken 11 provinces in the same time. It was turn 500 by the time they'd hit 30 provinces.

    Yes, Allied Governments take up some income and give you less money. It's a good intermediate step to Romanise somewhere more slowly and sustainably. It adds to the challenge of playing the game's easiest faction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colos1987 View Post
    For starters, you can't build level 2 mines in Client States. In fact, highest level of infrastructure buildings (roads, markets etc) are not available.
    Yes, Allied Governments don't have as good infrastructure options as your better factional governments. That's intended, AG's shouldn't be the best option, but sometimes they're the only option.

  16. #16

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Firstly before I Begin Agrippa19, drop that save game for me. I'd love to see and compare your empire sometime and give it a go! With that lets get started!


    To begin my campaign has increased movement speed and I wholeheartedly recommend doing that with all other campaigns! The AI poses a much more significant threat firstly and it makes the Cursus Honorum much more maintainable. And to a degree it will get all over the place if you aren't on top of all of your individual characters. So from the time they come of age I put them inside of Rome until their 18th year. At which point I press them into military training. I keep two units of Equestrians just outside of Rome and I'll stack up all the young me in it to represent their equestrian status. I'll normally have a legion or two rotating back to Italy every year or so maybe longer at which point i rotate those with chevrons back into the equestrian order and pull those without chevrons (depending on age need all of my future politicians to be versed in battle) so I'll rotate them into the mix. If i have an Influx of Equestrians i might bring the number of subordinates up to 4 accompanying a general. Now to fastfoward some years. The Military Tribune has fought in battles and served under a senior Politician with Imperium. His impressive military career will do him a long way in the Senate house and he'll be moved into Rome, or a settlement with citizenship to run for the position of Questor. After he successfully campaigns for the position of Tax collector, he'll be Rotated to the frontier provinces I.E. Corsica et Sardinia, Sicilia, Cisalpine Gaul, Illyria, Africa, Iberia (Wherever you've stocked a claim and conquered Ecetera ecetera) Now after moving into the province and getting to know the local populace as well as the elected chief or ruler of the allied state, he begins his career as a taxman until his term is up and he becomes a senator of the Republic! He'll be moved back to Rome, to live a senator and gain a much needed follow up on his education, as well as run for future offices. If he's elected as an Aedile DO NOT keep him in Rome, send him from city to city make him the governor/ only family member in the city and build! He will knock down construction costs so magnificently you'll wonder if he stole from his provinces and started building out of his own pocked (I've had it not be uncommon for Aediles once gaining positive traits threw their building experience knock down 20% off of everything they constructed from that point on; and it is one of my favorite offices to micromanage) If he runs for Peoples Tribune leave him in Rome obviously, and when he begins his career as a praetor i'll make him lead reinforcements to legion with his own personal command ability usually commanding a mix of socii/ auxiliary troops and Roman based units, and maybe taking on a singular eques family member to accompany him. If all positions of such are filled he'll begin a career as a governor of an Italian City. I'll lead them out to confront rebels every chance he has available and work on increasing that influence. Command wins battles Influence wins cities. As our character ages and becomes eligible for the consulship. He'll be the leading and commanding legions all over the Republic. Expanding the frontier and educating the young men of war will be his primary responsibilities. The Consuls who expand to the point of Triumph the main city of a province (Filled with ally states) Will be reconstatuted into a Province and will him and a force of Roman Troops (Stationed on the frontiers for reinforcement purposes also) as well as allies sent to the capitol of the province. At this point the retired senator is ready to enjoy immersing the populace into the Roman ways. And the Empire will roll on without him, just like old Cincinnatus.

    So my major changes being the role of the Aedile, and the praetors. and when i have people with nothing to do i'll at times have all my generals in Rome, the Roman senate wasn't just a few people it was made up of hundred of people and i like to have that populace represented by having many generals in Rome especially in my mid empire stages while the Republic was still going strong.

  17. #17

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    It's a historically-appropriate system for the easiest faction in the game. If that's too difficult for you, we won't lose any sleep over it.
    If you ask me, I think their status as easiest faction in the game should be taken with a grain of salt in EB2. Sure, they start with a consolidated territory that is easy to keep control of, BUT, they also have to deal with the northern rebels sending like 4 or 6 stacks to pillage Roman territory or even siege it at start of the game. Many of the nearby cities (at least Taras and Rhegion) have severe unrest modifiers forcing you to establish allied governments in them. And lastly, AI Carthage simply has a larger army and better navy than you. You can work around both of these issues, like using your navy sparingly and only to transport troops, and AI Carthage is likely to just trap it's superior forces on Sicily leaving Carthage itself ripe for taking, but beating them the "fair" way will be much more difficult.

    As such, I believe that under current difficulty thresholds they should be classed at least as Challenging - start with a somewhat difficult position but become much more capable as the game progresses.

    So basically, a player that plans to fight tooth or nail to make their empire the best, possibly might find Romans easy. Anyone who actually cares about roleplaying or turtles will be unpleasantly surprised when the northern rebel stacks decide to encourage the Roman expansion there from the start.
    Last edited by nvm; March 07, 2017 at 07:08 AM.

  18. #18
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Rome also start out rich and well-provisioned economically, with better units than virtually everyone else that get better as the game progresses. It's easy and gets easier.

  19. #19
    Apani's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by nvm View Post
    If you ask me, I think their status as easiest faction in the game should be taken with a grain of salt in EB2. Sure, they start with a consolidated territory that is easy to keep control of, BUT, they also have to deal with the northern rebels sending like 4 or 6 stacks to pillage Roman territory or even siege it at start of the game. Many of the nearby cities (at least Taras and Rhegion) have severe unrest modifiers forcing you to establish allied governments in them. And lastly, AI Carthage simply has a larger army and better navy than you. You can work around both of these issues, like using your navy sparingly and only to transport troops, and AI Carthage is likely to just trap it's superior forces on Sicily leaving Carthage itself ripe for taking, but beating them the "fair" way will be much more difficult.

    As such, I believe that under current difficulty thresholds they should be classed at least as Challenging - start with a somewhat difficult position but become much more capable as the game progresses.
    On being surrounded by rebel stacks: that is true for virtually every faction. EBII has quite a stressful early game.

  20. #20
    Agrippa19's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanStorm13 View Post
    Firstly before I Begin Agrippa19, drop that save game for me. I'd love to see and compare your empire sometime and give it a go! With that lets get started!


    If he's elected as an Aedile DO NOT keep him in Rome, send him from city to city make him the governor/ only family member in the city and build! He will knock down construction costs so magnificently you'll wonder if he stole from his provinces and started building out of his own pocked (I've had it not be uncommon for Aediles once gaining positive traits threw their building experience knock down 20% off of everything they constructed from that point on; and it is one of my favorite offices to micromanage).
    I like that Aedile tac especially, nice way of saving in your economy. I have a thing usually against switching governors as I'm not sure if it hinders trait development but I'll def give this a go.

    Also attached is my save game file. Hopefully you will not have a CTD when you end turn as I am having. Bear in mind this is my first EB2 roman campaign so I am only getting a feel for it. Playing m/m on huge settings.

    (Bit of background to the campaign) Some previous successsful consuls have become provincial governors in Bononia, Lilybaem, and I am trying to settle one in corsica and Carthage. I have an extremely successful former consul stationed in N Africa and trying to get him the African ancillary but I think he currently has too many ancillaries to get it. Carthage had declared war on me, first punic war ended with me taking Sicily, Corsica and Sardinia and them paying 3500 gold tribute for 3 turns. They declared war like 20 turns later again after attacking Caralis and I sacked Hadrumentum. I then left and declared a ceasefire, but Numidia took the ungarrisoned city and continued on to betray their carthaginian allies and attacked other Carthaginian territories. (I related this to a Jugartha situation and attacked taking all North Africa.

    Lusitania finished off Carthage in spain. Sweboz became a massive powerhouse in Europe taking all of Germania and nearly finished off the Gallic factions. I then led an alliance of the Aedui, Arverni and Lugones against the Sweboz retaking most of Gaul and giving these regions back to the Gallic factions and Noreia to the Lugones (there is a praetor and legion here). The Gallic regional economy is in tatters after so much war though so I don't know if they will remain free of the Sweboz for long. Lusitania declared war but have since accepted a ceasefire rather eagerly. I have conquered Illyria and am close to having those mines up and running while the economy is now extremely strong. I think Greece is relatively divided, the Koinon hellonon were originially destroyed but made an outrageous recovery, makedon is as good as gone so I've allied with them and was considering sending a legion to help balance power in Greece again. Maybe it would be best to invade Spain as the Lusitani are close to steamrolling the entire peninsula.
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