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Thread: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

  1. #21
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    It's a historically-appropriate system for the easiest faction in the game. If that's too difficult for you, we won't lose any sleep over it.
    It's not difficult at all. It's too annoying and bothersome. Especially now that you've removed the Rome's fort and young FMs must idle in the wild for endless turns and no reason whatsoever. You just didn't design it well, sooner you accept it, sooner we can get some fixes that make Romans play normally again. As a sidenote, you can't seriously state that you're balancing Romans against other factions by making them annoying to play?

  2. #22

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    To answer a few of your questions, Agrippa:

    I try to roleplay as best I can, but I also try to achieve high quality FMs since that pleases me. Due to the limit on the number of family members that can be in game (connected with the number of provinces you own, I believe), I tend to get most of my FMs through being very picky about my daughters' suitors. Low quality sons who come of age tend to get killed off against rebel stacks (I'll accept one bad trait in S/C/V...sometimes.... Never two).

    Basically for me it looks like this:

    1) Dull? Don't accept marriage. Consider killing off if son. Otherwise, go immediately to outside tasks. You need 30 turns ended outside a city to get the FULL military experience benefit for quaestor and other elections.

    2) Sharp? Move to Rome or other city with good schools if under age 28. They will progress first to Cultured due to the presence of a school (there are other ways to get to this first stage as well), then ideally to Erudite which is the 2nd stage of the education trait. This needs to be done before age 28, otherwise it is too late. But if they do manage to get Erudite before 28, then they can continue to benefit from higher education life-long. The third stage is Scholastic which is the first negative trait, i.e. too absorbing in learning to be practical. This is more likely for uncharismatic FMs (another reason not to accept them in marriages/adoptions and to kill off sons who are uncharismatic. But if I like the rest of the traits I'll keep one bad trait as I said).

    3) If you really like micro, every Spring check your students and get the ones who are already Erudite out working their 30 turns (assistant cavalry, watchtower building, rebel suppression etc all lovely tasks here. Sometimes it's just staying parked though). Otherwise wait for the 'eligible for quaestor' notices to remind you someone's turned 26. If they're Sharp and Cultured and 26, consider trying for Erudite for the next two years by moving them out before hitting end turn in Winter and putting them back in Spring. Or don't if that sounds irritating to you.

    4) At this point, I leave Quaestors in Rome until they become Praetors. I usually have enough governors to spare (I agree with QS that your rate of expansion, while not a blitz compared to other M2TW mods, is still a little fast for EB2's pace) that I don't need to move these guys around as Aediles, and of course you can't move Plebeian Tribunes. Every winter while the turn is ending, I update a notepad document and move all my generals down a row. It looks like this:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    Quaestor dodging - need Cultured to turn into Erudite before age 28.
    
    
    Move to Rome:
    		N. L. Nerva (10PL)				-1				Bag -> 24k	
    		C. A. Regulus (10Pl)			-1				Lily -> 24k
    
    
    Praetors:
    Propraetors:
    	II:
    	III:
    	IV:
    	V:
    
    
    Consul:	
    		M. F. Ambustus (10H)			0		
    		T. S. Orata (10/48)				-1				//Arretium -> 75%				
    		M. S. Gracchus (10Pl)			-1				//Ariminum -> 75%
    		T. C. Nero (10)					-2				//Messana -> 24k				
    		A. S. Orata (10/66)				-1				//Nesactium -> 24k
    		A. P. Maso (10)					-1				//Capua -> 75%
    Proconsul:	
    		C. F. Ambustus (10)				-2				Segestika pac
    		C. V. Maximus (10)				-1
    		S. A. Cotta	(10PL)				-1
    		A. L. Nerva (10PL)				-1				
    
    
    	II:
    		T. S. Orata (10L)				-1				Patavium -> 24k
    		P. S. Longus (5PL)				0				Rhegium -> 75%
    		T. C. Dolabella (7)				0				GOV: SICILIA (Syra)
    		M. V. Maximus (10)				-2				GOV: CISALP (Medio)
    	III:
    		C. J. Caesar (10)				-1				Massaila pac
    	IV:
    		L. F. Labeo (10)				-1				Caralis -> 24k	
    		T. L. Lucullus (10Pl)			-1				GOV: CORSAR (Aleria)
    		T. C. S. Asina (10)				-1				Dalminion -> 40%						
    		M. V. Maximus (10Red)			-1				Noreia -> 24k
    	V:
    		S. C. S. Asina (10)				-1				Scodra -> 6k AND GOV: ILLYRIA (Scodra)
    		S. V. Falto	(10)				-1				Tarentum -> 24k
    		S. V. Messalla (10)				-1				Bononia -> 24k


    As you can see, this is the weird part of my game where all my FMs are aging and children just aren't being born (thanks M2TW engine). So I have way WAY too many consuls. I don't have a saved version of this file earlier or I would show you one with Praetors in it.

    Basically I move people down from Praetor/Consul to their five stages of Propraetor / Proconsul. What's the 0/-1/-2 you ask? That's their effect on famine. Besides governors and army commanders (I try to use just consuls like you, etc), the chief jobs for my experienced FMs are promoting culture conversion (hence keeping track of the influence, which is the number in ( )'s next to their name, since higher influence scores give a larger impact on culture conversion), and promoting population growth. In particular in many regions you HAVE to use a FM to get up to 6k since it will stagnate before then, but better growth buildings don't unlock until after 6k. Here it's later game for Italy so I have goals of helping reach 24k instead.

    5) To become a governor: you need: a) to be in a city with a Province government building completed, b) to be a Propraetor or higher (including having once been a praetor but now completely out of your term), c) have fewer than 8 ancillaries (remove_ancillary console command is a great help here for getting rid of unnecessary ancillaries like mistress to make room; but watch out because sometimes you have to do this a few turns in a row, because they'll pop up a new mistress/public horse/whatever before the governor ancillary can be given that same turn), d) in a region that is scripted to be a Roman province, and e) that province doesn't already exist.

    In practice, once I get the first one (there's one for Cisalpina and one for Sicily, and one for Illyria, and one for Corsica + Sardinia, etc etc), I just drag and drop the banner to the replacement governor.

    6) Every spring when my 'move to rome' people are elected, I move them down to Praetor: or Consul: respectively and then take a look at who are my NEW 'move to romes', i.e. the people who are no longer pro-anything and are now eligible for praetor and consul again. Then I assign them replacements from the newly elected officials. So Praetors go become governors, consuls go find an army, or a city in serious need of a good governor, etc. Sometimes as the empire expands, I'll start sending out a replacement one year early when someone in a far away spot has just moved from IV to V in their years of pro-whatever.

    7) Here's a guide I made earlier that is still mostly (entirely?) correct in the new version that should help: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ffices-in-2-2b

    8) As for which regions are in what province, this post I made debugging some of them a while ago is slightly out of date but it's still mostly correct as far as listing the province names and the cities that ought to be in them. There've been some map changes but it's close enough that it should give you an idea of where to expect Province-system governors: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14810592

  3. #23

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Rome also start out rich and well-provisioned economically, with better units than virtually everyone else that get better as the game progresses. It's easy and gets easier.
    I don't disagree about their economy, however I can say that at least early on (which is the part I'm talking about) their roster currently has major weaknesses. Roman bodyguard unit is literally the worst of the game, not only they have bad stats, but the general somehow always tends to die really quick, compared to basically any other faction generals who would struggle to die even if I really wanted them to. Their cavalry overall isn't that much better. They don't have much in terms of their heavy infantry support, no archers or slingers. Literally all their units are armed with spears, and despite that most of them don't match up to hoplites.

  4. #24

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Mercenary sotoaroas from the north or toxotai from the south, but neither are terribly effectively against heavily armed units. I find the Leves you start with make a decent 2nd line behind combined Hastati/Principes, with Triarii in the absolute rear. Plenty of javelin kills from the Hastati/Principes and the Leves behind them, excellent morale and a solid infantry line up front with Triarii in close for their morale boost and to take over if needed, and then you just use your cavalry against that anvil from the rear. I try not to get my FM's bodyguard involved in combat for more than 10% casualties or so if I can help it, and use the other cavalry units for smashing duty. It's less about their combat stats and more about the morale shock to the enemy rolling up a flank, unless they have a superb general or excellent veterans keeping their morale pretty resistant. Though the difficulty you play on could be a factor. I do battles at medium myself since I don't care for the AI having stat bonuses that don't make sense for the types of units facing off against each other.

  5. #25

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by nvm View Post
    I don't disagree about their economy, however I can say that at least early on (which is the part I'm talking about) their roster currently has major weaknesses. Roman bodyguard unit is literally the worst of the game, not only they have bad stats, but the general somehow always tends to die really quick, compared to basically any other faction generals who would struggle to die even if I really wanted them to. Their cavalry overall isn't that much better. They don't have much in terms of their heavy infantry support, no archers or slingers. Literally all their units are armed with spears, and despite that most of them don't match up to hoplites.
    Roman infantry is some of the best in the game IMO.

    As regards their BGs--no, the numidians are much much worse than them in virtually every way IMO. And the Gandharan elephants are possibly one of the most likely BG units for getting your FMs killed.

    Their cavalry isn't supposed to be superb by any means--that's supposed to be one of their weaknesses.

  6. #26

    Default Re: How do you manage the Cursus Honorum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Roman infantry is some of the best in the game IMO.

    As regards their BGs--no, the numidians are much much worse than them in virtually every way IMO. And the Gandharan elephants are possibly one of the most likely BG units for getting your FMs killed.

    Their cavalry isn't supposed to be superb by any means--that's supposed to be one of their weaknesses.
    I would honestly rate even levy phalangites above Roman infantry - they don't kill a lot of enemies, but they are very effective at what they are meant to do, which is pinning the enemy in place. The best thing about Roman infantry is that their only levies are skirmishers - and Hastati, Principes and Triarii are all effective infantry units which can replace each other. However, they aren't particularly effective in their given area, unless you are fighting barbarians - which are vulnerable to javelins and tend to rout easily with sufficient persuasion.

    Numidian bodyguards aren't very powerful combatants, but the ability to function as skirmisher cavalry while barely counting as heavy cavalry in a pitch makes them stronger than Roman bodyguards even if you discount my personal experience of observing my multiple Numidian generals getting reduced to 9 men and surviving, and Roman generals losing 10 men, of which one was the general. The latter happened to me playing Romans both in original EB 2, 2.2 and 2.2h.

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