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Thread: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay - Links between Trump and Russia are being officially investigated by the FBI

  1. #101

    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post


    This is just conspiracy theories and logical fallacies. Everything that goes wrong in Russia is the West's fault, every social conflict in the West is proof of tyranny and social collapse, anyone who opposes Putin is working for a foreign government...
    Actually, not really. Just the 90s disaster. Sure there can be remnants now and then but most of save for the wealth inequality, most Russians problems today are their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    You keep talking to me as if I'm an internationalist leftist. As I told you, the choice isn't between the globalists and the Russians. We can and should oppose both.
    Nah, I treat you like Neocon supporter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    I will research how much of Russia's wealth was "stolen" by people living in the West. Seems pretty interesting. Although it doesn't explain the oligarchs who remain in Russia and why Putin supports them.
    http://www.therussianoligarchs.com/meet-the-oligarchs/
    Abramovic lives in London.
    Potanin is still in Russia.
    Prokhorov is only formally in Russia, actually spends most of his time in New York.
    Berezovski, UK based.
    Gusinski moved to Israel.
    Usmanov is in Switzerland.
    Deripanska and Tariko are still in Russia.
    Gutseriyev is another one that got caught evading taxes but eventually settled and since 2010 he was allowed back to Russia.
    Khodhorkovsky got caught, ended up in jail, now lives in Switzerland.

    So, only 3 never had to leave Russia. 1 was allowed back, 1 was jailed, 6 are abroad.

    There are obviously others, but it's hard to claim ''Putin has the support of the oligarchs''. Those who are still allowed to Russia, are so under specific conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    How in the world is a coup in the Ukraine an act of aggression against Russia? I am legitimately befuddled. See, that's what I mean when I mention the Russian government's propaganda. Your views aren't for an ideology; they are for Russia. Whatever Russia does is all right, whatever Russia's rivals do is bad. That's why I asked where you get your information. Russia is spending an unbelievable amount of effort on propaganda in the West. You have to be either very rational or very irrational not to fall for it.
    So, an aggression on a strategic and economic ally of Russia is not an aggression on Russia?
    Again, what exactly do you expect them to do? Sit down and let the US install enemy governments all around it? Now I'm the one befuddled.

    As for the rest, it's not my fault if the Russian foreign policy makes more sense than the continuous nonsense done by the West.
    You know, maybe if in Syria we weren't actually allied with Salafist Saudi Arabia and actually cooperated with Al Qaeda, aka the big boogeyman of the 2001-2010 decade, I'd also say that Western foreign policy makes sense.
    But it doesn't. We work with our alleged worst enemies to overthrow a government we don't like and we are ready to hand that country to people who backstabbed us multiple times and regularly commit terrorist attacks in the West. How the does that make an iota of sense?

    You can say ''yes but Russia is allied with Iran''. Shia Muslims do not commit terrorist attacks in Russia. Their alliance makes sense. Their actions are logic.

    Are Ukrainians and Georgians a threat to Russia? Why are there double standards for Russia and the West?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    When America has a base in Kuwait, it is unnecessary imperialism.
    A Russian base in Syria? Perfectly reasonable.
    Again fair difference. Russia asks a country to let it build a base, all good. The US asks, when it gets no as an answer it starts plotting regime change and eventually executes it with poor results.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    An American invasion to restore a pro-Western government after a coup? An act of aggression.

    A Russian invasion to restore a base or a pro-Russian government after a coup? They're just protecting their national interest - a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
    Iranians overthrew the Western backed government on their own. Ukrainians did not overthrow the Russian backed government on their own.

  2. #102

    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/...source=copyurl

    Let's get back on topic with the absurdities of Neocons;

    McCain's speech on tape in the link:



    Anyone that doesn't agree with ever expanding NATO and hating Russia is a Putin stooge.
    They are destroying themselves. I love it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    There's been a positive trend in Poland and Czechia and other countries as well, and, strangely enough, these countries didn't need an oppressive dictatorship to improve their economy. And while Russia has improved since the 90s, things have actually been getting worse these past few years; much much worse. The Putin system is unsustainable. It's a system based on natural resources and semi-state-run companies controlled by Putin's cronies. Pretty nice if you're Putin or one of his cronies, but if you're like most Russians, "emigrate or die."
    Nah, life quality hasn't gone down much during the crisis,, see HDI. The main change is that western goods and western vacations have become much more expensive (which is good IMO). As for Poland and Czech republic: I guess being a small country which avoided the trauma of "shock therapy" and having a Yeltsin kleptocracy in charge, having many billions of EU funds available and sitting in a great geographical position for trade pays off. Who knew.

    Honestly you don't know what you're talking about mate - your thought process literally works like this: "they told me Russia is bad and life sucks there, so it must be true".
    Last edited by Nikitn; March 16, 2017 at 02:11 AM.

  3. #103

    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    Unravelling?:
    "Clinton Ally Says Smoke, But No Fire: No Russia-Trump Collusion
    Former Acting CIA Director Michael Morell, who endorsed Hillary Clinton and called Donald Trump a dupe of Russia, cast doubt Wednesday night on allegations that members of the Trump campaign colluded with Russia.
    Morell, who was in line to become CIA director if Clinton won, said he had seen no evidence that Trump associates cooperated with Russians. He also raised questions about the dossier written by a former British intelligence officer, which alleged a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia."
    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...lusion-n734176

  4. #104

    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...trump-camp-and

    House Intelligence chairman: 'No evidence of collusion' between Trump camp, Russia

    "It's pretty clear that that's happening," he said.

    "There's even been stories written about it in numerous newspapers talking about how they said they left breadcrumbs around to hurt the Trump administration."
    And there you go.
    Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, Buzzfeed, Politico are fake news. They created and promoted something that was never there to begin with.

  5. #105
    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...n-or-wiretappi

    Nunes is saying there is no evidence while Schiff is saying there's direct evidence of deception. We'll see starting Monday, when Comey testifies.

    In the meantime, Trump's wire-tapping claims are still not bearing fruit.
    Last edited by IronBrig4; March 19, 2017 at 01:57 PM.

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  6. #106
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    "Clearly to leak Michael Flynn's name talking to the Russian ambassador," Nunes said. "That was clearly designed to hurt Gen. Flynn and the president's national security adviser."

    i dont get it, flynn talking to the russians isnt a big deal? if it is, oc its going to hurt him, and it should.

    also, what exactly is the role of the HIC here? do they investigate this exclusively, do they just head the investigation? just sounds strange to me that a republican chairman investigates a republican president, how are other parties and institutions involved in the process? is it just both republicans and democrats being on the commitee?

    hope someone can bring me up to speed here, i find it a bit iffy that Nunes is more concerned with the leaks occuring than possible foreign meddling.
    Last edited by HannibalExMachina; March 19, 2017 at 02:35 PM.

  7. #107

    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    Dude, even Hillary's staff talked to Russians (among many others) during the campaign.

  8. #108
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    so, thats what the kremlin spokesperson said:

    “There are lots of specialists in politology, people working in think tanks advising Hillary or advising people working for Hillary.”

    so, here we have flynn, advisor to the president, talking to the ambassador.

    and there, we have people who talk to people who work for hillary. no names, oc. must have been some pretty important people.

    or so my grandma's neighbor's son tells me

    i also like this bit:

    "Whom would you like better? The one who says that Russia is evil or the one who says that, 'Yes, we disagree, but let's talk to understand and to try to find some points of agreement?'” he asked."

    "yes, we prefer the person who likes to suck up to us, what are you people, stupid?"

    i wish trump was as honest as this guy.

  9. #109

    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    Where's my check from the Kremlin then?

  10. #110
    HannibalExMachina's Avatar Just a sausage
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    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    i feel ya, soros didnt pay me either, the hack.

  11. #111
    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...hearing-236265

    So the FBI is confirming an investigation into Russian meddling AND has refuted Trump's wiretapping conspiracy theory. The Trumpkins must be so crushed right now.


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  12. #112
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Trump's Wiretapping Allegations

    Fresh news,It's Official: The FBI Is Investigating Trump's Links to Russia
    I’ve been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election,” Comey told members of the House Intelligence Committee in a prepared opening statement. “That includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts.”

    I do think it should be investigated aggressively and if possible prosecuted so people take as a lesson this is not okay. This behavior can be deterred, and it’s deterred by locking some people up who have engaged in criminal activity.
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 20, 2017 at 04:06 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  13. #113

    Default Re: Trump's Wiretapping Allegations

    Since July. They also have no information regarding what Trump implies in this Tweets.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  14. #114

    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    Trump is a traitor. This is not going away. He will be tried for treason.

  15. #115

    Default Re: The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Trump is a traitor. This is not going away. He will be tried for treason.
    He was elected only a few months ago. He didn't rise to power alone, but with the consent and vote of many many people. Also has been public figure for decades.
    So if in such short amount of time you consider he is a traitor, by proxy you are calling the Democracy process as Treasonous aswell.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  16. #116

    Default Links between Trump and Russia are being officially investigated by the FBI

    So here it is. You may remember that our alt-right posters have spent months upon months loyally lying about there being no evidence of links between Trump and Russia, so prepare for some top-quality mental gymnastics. No doubt the left is to blame, somehow:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39324587

    Trump, within his first 100 days as sitting President of the United States of America, is being investigated by the FBI for his links and potential collusion with Russia.

    So far it looks like the majority of the GOP have yet to find their patriotism or spines, but with Trump defunding Appalachia, ripping away healthcare, and Paul Ryan still without the votes to get through his destructive healthcare bill, these Congressmen are becoming increasingly aware their own seats may slip into peril.

    This is the scandal that Donald Trump cannot lie out of existence, so much as he is trying:

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...t-comey-russia

  17. #117

    Default Re: Links between Trump and Russia are being officially investigated by the FBI

    "You can continue to look for something, but continuing to look for something that doesn't exist doesn't matter."

  18. #118

    Default Re: Links between Trump and Russia are being officially investigated by the FBI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    You may remember that our alt-right posters have spent months upon months loyally lying about there being no evidence of links between Trump and Russia, so prepare for some top-quality mental gymnastics.
    So can you post the evidence?



    After you post the evidence, please explain why in this video the head of the FBI agrees that there is currently no evidence of collusion between Russia and Trump
    Last edited by tgoodenow; March 21, 2017 at 12:40 AM.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Links between Trump and Russia are being officially investigated by the FBI

    An investigation of links isn't the same as an investigation of collusion, although you'd have to be a very good little brownshirt to not see where this is going at this point.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Links between Trump and Russia are being officially investigated by the FBI

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    So can you post the evidence?



    After you post the evidence, please explain why in this video the head of the FBI agrees that there is currently no evidence of collusion between Russia and Trump
    This, essentially, concludes this thread.
    Last edited by alhoon; March 21, 2017 at 09:15 AM.

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