The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay - Links between Trump and Russia are being officially investigated by the FBI

[Elfdude]

Cause, Julian Assange who is beholden to the Russian Government not kicking him out of their country is the most trusted source on anything Russian?

[Basil II the B.S]

Ecuador is Russia now and that somehow justifies CIA trying to cause a world war and the Democratic Party corruption.

Great!

[Prodromos]

I'm curious where you get your news from Basil, because it almost seems like you believe Russia is innocent and on the defensive against America. Russia has a sophisticated propaganda apparatus. They are extremely skilled at manipulating people's opinions. They do this by figuring out what your values are, and then fooling you into believing that your government's enemies share your values. Even during the Cold War, US intelligence was like a gaggle of idiots compared to their Russian counterparts. I ask because I remember falling for the propaganda once too, regarding Ukraine and Crimea. Russians are great people, but Putin is simply a thug who makes use of fear and violence to repress Russians, and to sow division among Westerners. He's a bad hombre.

[Basil II the B.S]

I'm curious where you get your news from Basil, because it almost seems like you believe Russia is innocent and on the defensive against America. Russia has a sophisticated propaganda apparatus. They are extremely skilled at manipulating people's opinions. They do this by figuring out what your values are, and then fooling you into believing that your government's enemies share your values. Even during the Cold War, US intelligence was like a gaggle of idiots compared to their Russian counterparts. I ask because I remember falling for the propaganda once too, regarding Ukraine and Crimea. Russians are great people, but Putin is simply a thug who makes use of fear and violence to repress Russians, and to sow division among Westerners. He's a bad hombre.

Putin is hardly a saint. But right now he's simply the scapegoat for the Western elite's crashing consensus among the masses, and that's entirely on their own ups.

You can't tell me you actually believe Hillary lost because of Putin hackorz, Brexit happened because of Putin hackorz, Cologne rapes happened because Putin sent infiltrates among refugees to bring down Merkel, Putin hacked the US electricity grid, Putin had the golden showers tape of Trump. Sorry but those are just plain lies.

And he's hardly repressing Russians. You think Russians are unhappy if he banned gay books for kids? And that's the worst thing he has done in the last few years.

[Prodromos]

Putin is hardly a saint. But right now he's simply the scapegoat for the Western elite's crashing consensus among the masses, and that's entirely on their own ups.

You can't tell me you actually believe Hillary lost because of Putin hackorz, Brexit happened because of Putin hackorz, Cologne rapes happened because Putin sent infiltrates among refugees to bring down Merkel, Putin hacked the US electricity grid, Putin had the golden showers tape of Trump. Sorry but those are just plain lies.

It's a false choice. You can oppose the leftist "elites" and Putin at the same time. Historically, i.e. before Trump, it was the left that sided with Putin against the West. It was they who ranted about Western imperialism, and supported abandoning the Eastern Europeans and restoring friendly relations with Russia. That's why Ron Paul would often make the news. He was literally the only Republican who truly believed in Blame America First.

And he's hardly repressing Russians. You think Russians are unhappy if he banned gay books for kids? And that's the worst thing he has done in the last few years.

This is one of the talking points that Putin is spreading in the West; that Russians totally like living in a poor, tyrannical dictatorship. Russia is a decaying second-world country with barely any political freedom. It is a disgrace for a country with Russia's history and resources to be like this. Putin is propagating nonsense about American or Western conspiracies to destroy Russia, in order to engender a siege mentality among Russians, which is very effective at distracting from the country's numerous social and political problems. If you speak out against the government, you are undermining Russian national security and must be a foreign agent, etc.

[Basil II the B.S]

It's a false choice. You can oppose the leftist "elites" and Putin at the same time. Historically, i.e. before Trump, it was the left that sided with Putin against the West. It was they who ranted about Western imperialism, and supported abandoning the Eastern Europeans and restoring friendly relations with Russia. That's why Ron Paul would often make the news. He was literally the only Republican who truly believed in Blame America First.

The globalist elite isn't really leftist. By economic standards, it isn't. It's not even classical free market anymore, it resembles more a feudal landed aristocracy, except that the land has been replaced by stocks.
Also Ron Paul simply believes in minding your own business, which puts him at odds with Neocons and Liberal interventionists.

This is one of the talking points that Putin is spreading in the West; that Russians totally like living in a poor, tyrannical dictatorship.

It's not a dictatorship, nor tyrannical by any standard. That's an extremely biased view if not just sheer propaganda spouted by the globalist elite who wants to get its hands on Russian natural resources again.

It also blows my mind how Russia went from an absolute monarchy until WW1, to a totalitarian regime until 1990, and then somehow it must absolutey become a beacon of perfectly functioning democracy immediately, otherwise you accuse them of being a tyrannical dictatorship.

And again, yes Russians prefer Russia under Putin with all its defects, than the nightmare they went through the 90s.
What Russians went through the 90s is what is happening to the Western middle class now. The wealth of the nation being ripped off and hidden in tax havens by a very restricted circle of individuals.

Russia is a decaying second-world country with barely any political freedom. It is a disgrace for a country with Russia's history and resources to be like this. Putin is propagating nonsense about American or Western conspiracies to destroy Russia, in order to engender a siege mentality among Russians, which is very effective at distracting from the country's numerous social and political problems. If you speak out against the government, you are undermining Russian national security and must be a foreign agent, etc.

The Western political freedoms are in free fall, to the point we are not in the position to criticize anyone anymore. The CIA/NSA control over private lives is something you'd expect from China, not a ''free country''. The censorship of the press on topics like immigration is 1984 level; the Western imperialist wars to ''spread democracy'' are actually something that's present in that very same book.

Let's be clear on one point, which is what most people miss out: I don't care about what Putin does in its own country, that is on Russian people and what they intend to do; I just want peaceful and cooperative relations and that's apparently not good for our warmongering, greedy elite. I care about our own bloc and it's a ing dystopia. We had politicians whining about low voter turnout for decades, now that turnout is going up in Europe but people don't vote for the mainstream parties, they whine about ''populism''. They can off.

[HannibalExMachina]

you believe in a giant conspiracy encompassing western democracy, but you think an autocrat like putin is all in for peaceful cooperation. like, on the crimea.

[Heathen Hammer]

you believe in a giant conspiracy encompassing western democracy, but you think an autocrat like putin is all in for peaceful cooperation. like, on the crimea.

Crimea was returned to Russia without firing a shot.
Also it isn't really a "conspiracy" to acknowledge how corrupt and dangerous globalist elite is.
Not to mention that return of Crimea was also a response to a violent coup staged by said globalist elite.

[Heathen Hammer]

If you draw a graph with a red arrow pointing with an arrow to a bubble that says "Russian business interests" then you don't have to provide proof for anything... Or at least anti-Trumpers think that way, which is hilarious.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

If you draw a graph with a red arrow pointing with an arrow to a bubble that says "Russian business interests" then you don't have to provide proof for anything... Or at least anti-Trumpers think that way, which is hilarious.

If they had specific companies/interests they could name they would name them.

[HannibalExMachina]

yes, because the ukraine could have stopped russia if they wanted too

[riskymonk]

If you draw a graph with a red arrow pointing with an arrow to a bubble that says "Russian business interests" then you don't have to provide proof for anything... Or at least anti-Trumpers think that way, which is hilarious.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...legations.html

If investigations into Trump-Russian contacts doesn't alarm some of us then surely the fact that Trump has said that he knows Putin, is good friends with him and has also said that he has never met Putin in his life should be quite alarming.

[IronBrig4]

If they had specific companies/interests they could name they would name them.

Ask and ye shall receive. http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...essions-214868

[ByzantinePowerGame]

Ask and ye shall receive. http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...essions-214868

Gazprom... So what? It is an oil company... Trump having business relations with one of the largest oil companies in Europe...

It is the equivalent of screaming because Hillary [or somebody] had stock in Lufthansa.

[IronBrig4]

You asked for specific examples and got them.

From the article:

There’s nothing inherently damning about most of the ties illustrated below. But they do reveal the vast and mysteriously complex web behind a story that has vexed Trump’s young presidency from its start—and is certain to shake the White House for months to come.

[B. W.]

While the ties of the Trump campaign to Russia remain speculative, it is spreading increasing (and unwanted) light on activities by leading Democrats and their relationship to Russia and other nefarious countries.

Never mind the fact that Bill Clinton received $500,000 from the Russian government for giving a speech and let's forget about the 145 million the Clinton Foundation received from various investors after her State Department signed the deal allowing the Russian purchase of American uranium mines.

Let's just focus on the 20% stake the Saudis had in Hillary's re-election:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...-prince-claims

[riskymonk]

Gazprom... So what? It is an oil company... Trump having business relations with one of the largest oil companies in Europe...

It is the equivalent of screaming because Hillary [or somebody] had stock in Lufthansa.

The concern is that Trump has both admitted and denied that he has deals in Russia. So what if he has deals in Russia, but why did he deny it?

[RangerGxi]

How can Trump be both "literally Hitler" and a Puppet of Russia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-S...ism_and_Nazism

[Knight of Heaven]

How can Trump be both "literally Hitler" and a Puppet of Russia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-S...ism_and_Nazism

Poetic Freedom.

If you draw a graph with a red arrow pointing with an arrow to a bubble that says "Russian business interests" then you don't have to provide proof for anything... Or at least anti-Trumpers think that way, which is hilarious.

Quite some of those links are knowned facts by now.

At the moment is realy necessary to verify all of those links to say there is no connection??? .... I mean The guy doesnt even have the full staff yet and already two members are off because of this, and cought lying red handed.....
But yeah keep yourself in denial, or is that realy trowing sand to one eyes? i guess it is the latter. You are not convincing anyone on this.

[Elfdude]

Technically Trump and Pence have both been caught lying red-handed in regards to Russian contacts, it just isn't as easy to hold them accountable. Pence claimed he didn't know about what Flynn had done which is categorically false given the briefings he received. The same can be said about Trump.