The Putin - Trump Controversy: Here to Stay - Links between Trump and Russia are being officially investigated by the FBI

[Telamon]

Blanket denial and buzzwords? Weak.

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

Pacifism or to the very least common sense pacificism is Trumpian now? Wew.

No, but leaning towards the Assad faction and seeing acts against him as Neoconservative is one facet of the wider Trumpian ideology. C'mon, you know what I'm saying, don't split hairs. I'm not judging the ideology, nor even calling you Trumpian - but it is a faction among Trump supporters. Even this guy, who you can't seem to escape if you browse Trumpian Twitter, had a fit over it: https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/sta...71163527581697.

[Roma_Victrix]

Apparently sticking to the policy of ''no more pointless wars'' makes me an ideologue?

Wow, didn't know coherency was so lowly rated.

I guess I should change my opinion like the wind.

I disagree with you on many fronts, but one area of agreement is certainly the avoidance of a Neo-con sequel to Bush and Obama's Iraq War in both Syria and Iraq. We spent years being bogged down with an insurgency because we disarmed the Baathists and then were too stubborn to form a lasting political solution for the Sunni and Shia rift, let alone the Kurdish one in the north. If not splitting apart the country, there should have been autonomous zones established that would placate all parties for a time at the very least. Repeating the same crap in Syria with no real strategy for a swift and painless regime change is a disaster in the making now that there is an ongoing civil war with so many armed Sunni factions that would happily fight against a US-led occupation instead of the Assad regime. Hell, the Assad loyalists (Shia/Sunni/Assyrian Christians/Druze) would jump in too and attack the same Western occupiers.

People say that Obama's strategy in Syria was muddled and limp-wristed, but I call that BS. I don't think Obama should have armed and trained the rebels and FSA, but at least he refrained from bombing Assad (thanks to the chemical weapons agreement) and genuinely focused his efforts on ISIS with air strikes, special ops missions with US special forces, and other support for local native ground forces such as the Kurds and Iraqi army. It seems as though Trump is now willing to turn his back on Russia, which is a stunning reversal. I certainly did not see that happening. Everything is up in the air now that Neo-cons have Trump's ear. War with Iran is one thing I hope he's not honestly considering, but then again I have no idea what Trump thinks. He's been known to have almost bipolar mood swings when it comes to public and foreign policy.

Same people who swore under oath about Saddam's WMD. The US intelligence community is infested by warmongering neocons who have no qualms about lying or working with terrorists.

Worst people on the planet.

Once again, I agree that the Neo-Cons like Cheney are wrong and should retire from politics, permanently. But I don't put Colin Powell in that category, even though he was the one dangling that vial of whatever in front of Congress during his hearing prior to the Iraq War.

None of the stories about Russia and we had a dozen since the election turned out to be even remotely true. The golden showers, the hacking of Hillary, the hacking of the vote, the hacking of the electricity grid. None. Zero evidence.

The hacking of the vote is a BS story that the mainstream media was wise to drop. The hacking of the DNC and Hillary's emails, however, is something that was very real and released to Wikileaks, most likely by the Russians. I generally trust the hunch of the FBI, which has slowly but surely revealed links about Russian involvement in the election process. That's not much of a surprise, though. The US meddles in the affairs of other countries all the time; I'd expect the Russians to do the same, especially with their sophisticated intelligence apparatuses. As for the golden showers thing, I have no real strong opinion, since it could be true or total BS. You're right, there's not enough evidence for that.

And just to be clear: the Wikileaks of the Hillary and DNC emails were fairly damning and revealed things they shouldn't have been doing in the first place, like little tricks to rig the primaries in Hillary's favor, at the expense of Bernie Sanders.

[Basil II the B.S]

But removing Assad is a Neocon goal. You can't tell me ''it's not Neocon agenda''. It is. McCain, Graham, Kristol have been fapping furiosly about it in the last few days.
It's not like one has to like Assad. I don't like Saudis at all, it's not like I want regime change in S.A. That's the major difference. I simply don't want pointless wars.
As for Watson, I haven't followed him. And for us Europeans, destabilization of Syria has dire consequences in terms of more refugees. I don't want that either. Under Assad Syria was a peaceful middle eastern craphole. Without him, it's going to be an area with permanent tribal fights.
It's not Trumpian to want to avoid those kind of consequences. No matter how much even other European politicians push the idea of bringing ''democracy to Syria'' and being the humanitarian ''superpower'' for refugees. Those are all failed ideas. I don't need Trump to tell me that. I need someone that avoids following those ideas, even if it's Trump.

The same goes with Russia. There's hardly any point in contuining the antagonization of Russia. Sure they aren't a beacon of democracy, but neither is China, yet I don't see our politicians so eager to antagonize the Chinese.

But removing Assad is a Neocon goal. You can't tell me ''it's not Neocon agenda''. It is. McCain, Graham, Kristol have been fapping furiosly about it in the last few days.
It's not like one has to like Assad. I don't like Saudis at all, it's not like I want regime change in S.A. That's the major difference. I simply don't want pointless wars.

As for Watson, I haven't followed him. I'm aware of some of his positions but he's probably right on this one. For us Europeans, destabilization of Syria has dire consequences in terms of more refugees. I don't want that either. Under Assad Syria was a peaceful middle eastern craphole. Without him, it's going to be an area with permanent tribal fights.
It's not Trumpian to want to avoid those kind of consequences. No matter how much even other European politicians push the idea of bringing ''democracy to Syria'' and being the humanitarian ''superpower'' for refugees. Those are all failed ideas. I don't need Trump to tell me that. I need someone that avoids following those ideas, even if it's Trump.

The same goes with Russia. There's hardly any point in contuining the antagonization of Russia. Sure they aren't a beacon of democracy, but neither is China, yet I don't see our politicians so eager to antagonize the Chinese.

The hacking of the vote is a BS story that the mainstream media was wise to drop. The hacking of the DNC and Hillary's emails, however, is something that was very real and released to Wikileaks, most likely by the Russians. I generally trust the hunch of the FBI, which has slowly but surely revealed links about Russian involvement in the election process. That's not much of a surprise, though. The US meddles in the affairs of other countries all the time; I'd expect the Russians to do the same, especially with their sophisticated intelligence apparatuses. As for the golden showers thing, I have no real strong opinion, since it could be true or total BS. You're right, there's not enough evidence for that.

And just to be clear: the Wikileaks of the Hillary and DNC emails were fairly damning and revealed things they shouldn't have been doing in the first place, like little tricks to rig the primaries in Hillary's favor, at the expense of Bernie Sanders.

Wikileaks said multiple times months and months before the ''Russian hacking'' story even came out, that it was from a disgruntled DNC employee. And nobody really cared about them until Hillary lost. When Hillary lost, her backers started blaming everything they could on Russia.

You know, if when the emails came out, there was evidence of Russia doing it then I might have actually believed that. Not after Hillary lost. For Hillary supporters those emails never mattered until she lost. Then all of a sudden it's all Russia. that.

The golden showers story is even less reliable than the Ivanka incest ones pushed by Hill shills during the electoral campaign.

[Big War Bird]

I think the idea that Trump is Putin's lap dog can be put to bed. If anything Putin looks like the female dog at the moment with his client being bombed by the guy he worked so hard to get elected.

[HannibalExMachina]

short-sighted analysis. if trump starts a war in syria, putin can point fingers to the buffoon the world ridicules. putin doesnt care about his critics, he doesnt have too, and his fans will feel vindicated.

if putin had any hand in trumps presidency, he knew what he had in him. he is too smart to get blindsided by such a predictable event. the US being a pariah is the best thing that could happen to him. and with trump, he knew he would get that no matter what.

putin can only win, and trump only lose. military interventionism has bitten the US in the ass time and again. trumps voters have started to realize that he is a bag of lies. if he changes his stance towards russia, thats another lie to them. and if he backs down, the hawkish nationalists will chew him out. his choices are to be a liar, or a loser.

[Big War Bird]

Putin wanted a free hand in Eastern Europe and Syria. He thought Trump would give him that. If we know anything about Trump its that he doesn't handle insults well. Trump took the gas attack as an affront. Putin lost here. Billionaire isolationist Donald Trump, the poster boy for anti humanitarianism, just laid down a big fat American chip on the side the defenseless children his client was killing. You can't possibly tell me Putin expected that when he was hacking DNC.

[Basil II the B.S]

Billionaire mastermind just threw away his chances of re-election though. His support base is revolting.

[Big War Bird]

They have always been revolting, now they are rebelling.

[HannibalExMachina]

he will have his free hand alright, or as free as it ever gets, once trump has thoroughly discredited the US. trump has no stance that he wont change on a whim, you dont need to be putin to know that. all you need is access to social media, trump hasnt been flipfloping since yesterday.

only an extremely gullible electorate would expect trump to have an agenda and stick with. putin isnt some disgruntled rust-belter.

[Big War Bird]

A moment ago you said Putin knew what he was getting in Trump, now you are saying Trump is unpredictable. You can't have it both ways.

[HannibalExMachina]

trumps isnt unpredictable, and i never said that, on the contrary:


if putin had any hand in trumps presidency, he knew what he had in him. he is too smart to get blindsided by such a predictable event. the US being a pariah is the best thing that could happen to him. and with trump, he knew he would get that no matter what.


if anything, he is very predictable. not in every day-to-day situation, but thats because we naturally expect people like him to make sense. maybe his actions arent as predictable as those of a more mature person, but his reasons and motives are easy to figure out, and thus, a certain range of consequences.

we know two things: first, his own ego is his strongest focus, and second, he will do everything to gratify it.

people didnt expect him to run for president, instead of just running a tv-show and putting his name on things.

but, he wanted the presidency to for the same reason he does everything, be bigly.

now, he is becoming increasingly unpopular. this hurts his ego, and not even he is so deluded to think that wont affect his latest vanity project.

his solution: appear as a strong, decisive leader, because that commands respect, and start a war. the second one is a no-brainer, short term this almost always pais off for a US president.

again, only deluded, uninformed trumpsters believed trump wouldnt start a conflict. to everyone else, his attitude of confrontation and self-aggrandisement were pretty clear.

every person with half a brain knew what a president trump would mean, and i am to believe an ex-kgb agent who manages to run a country like his own private kingdom couldnt figure that out?

[Big War Bird]

Are you a Russia bot? You sound like a Russia bot. Maybe an alt righter?

You seem pretty wrapped up in your own fantasies.

[grinder]

Are you a Russia bot? You sound like a Russia bot. Maybe an alt righter?

You seem pretty wrapped up in your own fantasies.

Sure, paid trolls always dedicate the time and effort on the subject matter of the website they infest, to earn awards for their artistic contributions...

[HannibalExMachina]

wat? thats the most ridiculously backwards thing anyone has ever accused me of

to refresh your memory: alt-righters and russiabots will justify everything putin and the orange do, no matter how shamelessly they lie, opress and manipulate.

i think you just have a very cookie-cutter view on politics. bad guy makes president, president does everything bad guy wants him too, in a very straightforward manner.

yeah, its more complex than that.

Sure, paid trolls always dedicate the time and effort on the subject matter of the website they infest, to earn awards for their artistic contributions...

ah, but you see, i belong to the next, smarter generation of trolls. all your webspace is belong to us, all hail the great lizard!

[Basil II the B.S]

Who's the russiabot on this forum exactly? Do you have any evidence or are you tipping your tinfoil hat?

[Big War Bird]

For someone who says he isn't a Russia bot, you sure do seem to endow Putin with god like omniscience. I do admit that Putin has played his hand pretty well up until now. He was happy to mess with the US election and was delighted Trump won, thinking he was an isolationist.

Whoops.

But hey don't let me stop you from crawling up Putin's rear.

Btw, Kudos to US UN Ambassador Nikki Haley for roasting Russia today at the security council.

[Ludicus]

Even before, what ended our Estado Novo regime wasn't newspaper.

...and then came the free press.Obviously, there was no freedom of press or freedom of speech.

fkizz

but info-spreading organized efforts by the people

Well, it could be more properly to say the decree-law 353/73.

Trump is correct

Trump hates the press, but the free press is important for democratic process.

fkizz

Technologies have moved on and people do for free faster and more efficiently what journalists were paid to do before with a Monopoly/Oligopoly of information and their Market Power

I see, the press is the evil principle of the modern world.

[HannibalExMachina]

For someone who says he isn't a Russia bot, you sure do seem to endow Putin with god like omniscience. I do admit that Putin has played his hand pretty well up until now. He was happy to mess with the US election and was delighted Trump won, thinking he was an isolationist.

Whoops.

But hey don't let me stop you from crawling up Putin's rear.

Btw, Kudos to US UN Ambassador Nikki Haley for roasting Russia today at the security council.

trump on, bruh. if you think its omniscent to understand the basics of US politics, you may have as well voted for the orangutan.

[empr guy]

It's kind of unbelievable that this is some sort of win win scenario for Putin, there's no telling what position trump will take on any given issue tomorrow and no way to know whose even going to be advising him since the pro russian group is (mostly?) out and even bannon wasn't safe. At least clinton would have been hounded all 4 years about emails or some other dumb thing and has been advocating a pretty consistent strategy, making it easier to respond to if not beat.

now, he is becoming increasingly unpopular. this hurts his ego, and not even he is so deluded to think that wont affect his latest vanity project.

hmmmmm