Greek Ideas

[eaenidu]

Random Idea I got while researching some things online and came across some interesting info, I had read a few things that saw that around the time that Greeks 'Romanized' a Few of them put together double strength units based on the Roman Standard bearer/Eagle Units, Do you think we should get that Added to all Greeks? Maybe as a Spear Type thanks to the Greeks preferring spear use even in later times?

2nd Idea I got was for Sparta possibly giving them access to something like the Auxiliary Barracks? Since they used Allies for everything not Hoplite wouldn't something like that be fitting for them?

3rd Idea I had was for the more, Far Flung? Is that a good phrase? Greek Groups to have more like, native-like units? Like for say the Bosphorians Why not give their horse archers a melee boost or make them double as Shock Calvary? Baktria in General feels lacking.

But well these are all just some random Ideas I got by playing and reading around, anyone else got other interesting Greek Ideas?

[JCB206]

1. Are you saying that the Greeks should have a 1st Cohort like unit?

2. The AOR units provides many Allied Units. Are you saying you would like to see them have their own special units of the already existing AOR units, like the Romans?

3. Don't know about Bosporus but Baktria feels pretty good ATM. They just got a roster update. Only about 15 turns in though. Check their preview. Great roster.

[eaenidu]

1. Yeah something like that after there second reforms only though is what I was thinking, and spear users, I thought it was an interesting idea, I'm pretty sure both the Seleucids and Egyptians did it so why not all who make it to the 2nd reforms?

2. Yeah I was thinking special 'Spartan' units if you can get Sparta to different parts of the map, Get them slightly different Skins better stats and so on, much like the Romans.

3. Baktria just feels to limited it feels like, like there's not enough variety in it for me, Baktria is a huge melting pot of Greek, Iranian, Nomadic and Indian culture but they don't really reflect that, I'm just thinking that as time goes on the Greeks should get more Ideas from those around their home province and incorporate it more into their armies.

[Wolf Priest]

1. Yeah something like that after there second reforms only though is what I was thinking, and spear users, I thought it was an interesting idea, I'm pretty sure both the Seleucids and Egyptians did it so why not all who make it to the 2nd reforms?

2. Yeah I was thinking special 'Spartan' units if you can get Sparta to different parts of the map, Get them slightly different Skins better stats and so on, much like the Romans.

3. Baktria just feels to limited it feels like, like there's not enough variety in it for me, Baktria is a huge melting pot of Greek, Iranian, Nomadic and Indian culture but they don't really reflect that, I'm just thinking that as time goes on the Greeks should get more Ideas from those around their home province and incorporate it more into their armies.

1. Thorax troops are basically that.

2. All Greeks use locals as auxiliary troops. Giving them separate barracks seams counter-productive.

3. Baktria has one of the largest rosters in game. Could you perhaps give example of faction you think has better roster, so I can see what you mean?

[KingRudiger]

Are there any plans on adding more units to the Rhodos roster? I haven't played them that much, but looking at their units on the Custom battle screen, it seems their land unit roster doesn't have any sword options besides the standard greek swordsmen. Their naval roster seems pretty good though.

[Dresden]

We don't have any specific plans for Rhodes at the moment, but the main idea for it is a naval roster more than a land roster.

[Dardo21]

All greek factions that didn't recieve an overhaul in 1.2 might get one in the future, our god KAM willing. (Dresden beat me to it :p)

[eaenidu]

1. I know thorax troops are the Roman evolution basicaly but rome gets like three or four troops that are 2X size, I'm just saying that the Greeks should get one that's 2X size and inspires like the Eagle Cohort since they had that in history.

2. Then why give one to Rome? Plus those are limited and thus annoying to use anyway.

3. Look at Baktria's Infantry it's tiny and Doesn't have good garrison army troops to it, they have okay cav amount but Infantry is nowhere close for me, Bosphorians have the opposite problem, Good choices of infantry but not enough Cav, I Don't think any of the Greeks do it correctly but Seleucids come kinda close? The Dacians Are most likely the best from what I've seen holding true to barbarian Roots but Getting horse archer Ideas from the nomads and the hoplites from Greece they seem the closest I've seen to getting it right.

[Dardo21]

What is annoying to use?

[eaenidu]

The AOR, I like the idea but being limited pisses me off since AOR is sometimes the only way to get decent Ranged units and I Can't get them for all my armies then.

[KAM 2150]

Big nope to all. We do not want fantasy stuff, units that are added for the sake of adding units and giving everything for everyone, that is not that kind of a mod.

You completly lost it at Baktria, because that is fully based on my award winning MA thesis and is well researched. You seem like you would be happy with other mod, because we won't provide cataphracts or Cretan-level of skill units to all factions.

[Maetharin]

Weren't the Bactrians the reason why Antiochus III introduced cataphracts in the first place?

Completely unrelated, I've recently read that some historians think that Hellenic cavalry declined during that time, which is why they introduced elephants and chariots.
IMO a nonsense claim, with Antiochus III.s outnumbered cavalry holding out against the Bactrians who were famed for their horsemanship. Would you happen to know if the Unit with him was the Agema or the Hetairoi KAM?
And what are your thoughts in this claim?

[KAM 2150]

No, Parthians were the suggested reason for that, although even Alexander faced multiple times with Nomadic cataphracts so they weren't anything new to them.

Were, cav was in decline for some Hellenic states in some places (Macedon) and on rise in other (Seleucids).

As for that battle of Arius, I don't remember if there was any description (If I remember) of Antiochus bodyguard but from other battles I remember that Agema always fought with the king while Hetaroi would be placed in otherplaces or maybe lead by the Heir.

[eaenidu]

I'm Not Saying Everyone needs Cretens or anything like that, but most Slingers are worthless in the current game, Same Range as Archer, Less Damage, Poorer Melee in Some Cases and Can't Shoot over Units, I Can't Find a Reason to Use Them or the Crossbow infantry thanks to that last one, Pulling them behind completely Removes any use for them.
So a lot of the time I need to use Cretens to get Ranged, If I own Crete itself why do I Need to buy Mercs? I'm Serious, Why Are AOR units Restricted? One of the things I Love to do is start a general in my capital and move him toward the frontline where I want him picking up AOR units along the way to form an odd army, but it's super annoying when the game tells me 'Nope you already have the max of that unit' And not just for AOR Why are units Restricted at all?(Well besides first/eagle Cohorts, Those I understand)

As For Baktria I was Just Saying they don't Really have a Good Medium Unit for Garrison armies, Meaning either I have to use Subpar or Elite units, Thus get overrun or waste a Crap Ton of money.

And The Greek Eagle Cohort or whatever it's called I can't remember isn't fantasy Both the Seleucids and Egyptians had it to act much like the ones who Carried the Eagle did in Rome, it's just that they, like many Greeks Preferred Using spears still over swords, Though I Think the Seleucids never got the chance to test them out in battle because the king who got the idea died and his son got rid of it or something, He only got to show it off on parade and drill it a lot I'm pretty sure.

[Michaliscrete]

I have never read of greek first conhort or something like that. Can you give a link or name of book that you reed this. For cretans i agree. If you have crete you should have as many as you want. For hellenic factions and rome but must be a negative that they were historically mercenaries so maybe increase upkeep. Bactria i think has a complete roster. Good infantry hoplites pikes, two hand infantry , cretan archers, cataphracts, elephants, horsearchers. They rock

[eaenidu]

I Think it was mentioned in "Hellenistic Infantry Reform in the 160's BC" By Nick Sekunda, Somewhere in the Sixties in page number? Yeah It Should be on page 60 or 61 of that book.

[delita5]

As For Baktria I was Just Saying they don't Really have a Good Medium Unit for Garrison armies, Meaning either I have to use Subpar or Elite units, Thus get overrun or waste a Crap Ton of money.

I understand the part that Backtria does not have a "Good Medium Infantry", really they do not have (they should not even have that Pike), but this is due to the fact that it was Inviable to them since they were practically surrounded by Factions Persians, Nomads Which are composed mainly of cavalry so I venture to say that "Backtria was the Hellenic faction with the most powerful cavalry among the Greeks" (10,000 horsemen ...) plus they have elephants to do the part of the infantry ...
What annoys me and the good archers, that you only unlock in the last reform or you will have to use archers to horses for a good time...
I find just the troops that Backtria has (though I wanted a touch over Indian, plus this is not the Indo-Greek Kingdom's worth ...)

[JCB206]

I understand the part that Backtria does not have a "Good Medium Infantry", really they do not have (they should not even have that Pike), but this is due to the fact that it was Inviable to them since they were practically surrounded by Factions Persians, Nomads Which are composed mainly of cavalry so I venture to say that "Backtria was the Hellenic faction with the most powerful cavalry among the Greeks" (10,000 horsemen ...) plus they have elephants to do the part of the infantry ...
What annoys me and the good archers, that you only unlock in the last reform or you will have to use archers to horses for a good time...
I find just the troops that Backtria has (though I wanted a touch over Indian, plus this is not the Indo-Greek Kingdom's worth ...)

Bactria has Hoplites, Pike Phalanx, and Thuero troops. They don't have good medium infantry? Baktria had a very large greek population because Alexander left them there to increase the Hellenic population so far from home. They tried to go home, were defeated and forced to return.

Here is the first link I found when I googled for you...

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.p...tem_type=topic

"
Before the arrival of the Greek settlers, the armies of Bactria were overwhelmingly composed of cavalry and were well known as effective soldiers, making up large portions of the Achaemenid cavalry contingents. 2,000 Bactrian horsemen fought at the Granicus against Alexander and 9,000 at the Battle of Gaugamela on the left flank of Darius' army. Herodotus also mentions the widespread use of chariots among the Bactrians. After Alexander's conquest of Bactria, Bactrian cavalry units served in his army during the invasion of India and after the Indian campaign, Alexander enlarged his elite companion cavalry by adding Bactrians, Sogdians and other east Iranian cavalrymen.^[37] Both Aeschylus (The Persians, v. 318) and Curtius mention that Bactria was able to field a force of 30,000 horse. Most of these horsemen were lightly armed, using bows and javelins before closing with sword and spear. Herodotus describes the Persian cavalry of Mardonius at the Battle of Plataea (which included Bactrians) as horse archers (hippotoxotai). Bactrian infantry is described by Herodotus as wearing caps in the Median style, short spears and reed Scythian style bows.
Alexander and Seleucus I both settled Greeks in Bactria, while preferring to keep their Macedonian settlers farther west. Greek garrisons in the satrapy of Bactria were housed in fortresses called phrouria and at major cities. Military colonists were settled in the countryside and were each given an allotment of land called a kleros. These colonists numbered in the tens of thousands, and were trained in the fashion of the Macedonian army. A Greek army in Bactria during the anti-Macedonian revolt of 323 numbered 23,000.^[37]
The army of the Greco-Bactrian kingdom was then a multi-ethnic force with Greek colonists making up large portions of the infantry as pike phalanxes, supported by light infantry units of local Bactrians and mercenary javelin-wielding Thureophoroi.^[38] The cavalry arm was very large for a Hellenistic army and composed mostly of native Bactrian, Sogdian and other Indo-Iranian light horsemen. Polybius mentions 10,000 horse at the Battle of the Arius river in 208 BC. Greco-Bactrian armies also included units of heavily armored cataphracts and small elite units of companion cavalry. The third arm of the Greco-Bactrian army was the Indian war elephants, which are depicted in some coins with a tower (thorakion) or howdah housing men armed with bows and javelins. This force grew as the Greco-Bactrian kingdom expanded into India and was widely depicted in Greco-Bactrian coinage. Other units in the Bactrian military included mercenaries or levies from various surrounding peoples such as the Scythians, Dahae, Indians and Parthians."


Not to mention that we have a historian on this site, KAM, that has spent more hours researching Baktria than 99% of the posters here.

You sound like you just want to recruit whatever you want. Instead of complaining, try to appreciate all the hard work that has been put into these faction rosters. JMO>

[The Guy With No Imagination]

The only annoying thing about Baktria is that it has to rely on tactically inflexible hoplites in the place of a more flexible heavy infantry. Baktrians only get them in the final reform, which is a bit of a pain to unlock (250 turns in or so and I'm still not there(Dont blame me, blame the merciless onslaught of the AI)). That being said, it makes sense, it's historical, and forces you to adapt to the faction's strengths and weaknesses. As a veteran Baktria player (no joke here, catch me playing them in whatever TW iteration they appear), this has been one of the most fun and refreshing campaigns Ive had as the roster is so fully fleshed out and complete, and shows the reliance on the indigenous population that most don't usually acknowledge.

Basically, another useless suggestion, no offense.

Also, AOR Sogdian, Scythian, and Subeshi archers are killers on the field @Delita5

And tbh it sucks I cant read polish or I'd want to read Kam's thesis.

[geala]

Big nope to all. We do not want fantasy stuff, units that are added for the sake of adding units and giving everything for everyone, that is not that kind of a mod.

...

What?? You mean I don't get my badly needed armored elefants for the Caledonii? With mounted catapults, please.