"The Last Kingdom: Wrath of the Norsemen" -Submod! (4.5 released as of 2022-04-20)

[blodhemn]

Not going to address my question about the music, I see. Haha.

[Mr_Nygren]

Not going to address my question about the music, I see. Haha.

They aren't the full songs first and foremost, and second i may have removed names but i don't remember.

You just need to extract the music using the sound extractor program and look in the mods workshop for how to do that. There is a reason why i didn't include that - because i don't want to share songs. In the mod you only hear them play randomly and often they are interrupted and as i said no full songs.

Still, i would not make them easily available to extract for obvious reasons.

[blodhemn]

They aren't the full songs first and foremost, and second i may have removed names but i don't remember.

You just need to extract the music using the sound extractor program and look in the mods workshop for how to do that. There is a reason why i didn't include that - because i don't want to share songs. In the mod you only hear them play randomly and often they are interrupted and as i said no full songs.

Still, i would not make them easily available to extract for obvious reasons.

Right, they're not the full songs. Nor are they your songs, I presume, so then why not tell me the names so that I can track down the one that I like, as you did, and listen to it fully? I don't get this. At all.

[Mr_Nygren]

Right, they're not the full songs. Nor are they your songs, I presume, so then why not tell me the names so that I can track down the one that I like, as you did, and listen to it fully? I don't get this. At all.

Because i probably renamed all to numbers.. So i have no clue what the original names were. You will need to tell me which faction/culture you are focusing on.

I have a list of all the songs from the Baltic Release somewhere in the Wrath of the Norsemen forum. The new TLK songs have no lists though.

[blodhemn]

Because i probably renamed all to numbers.. So i have no clue what the original names were. You will need to tell me which faction/culture you are focusing on.

I have a list of all the songs from the Baltic Release somewhere in the Wrath of the Norsemen forum. The new TLK songs have no lists though.

I believe the song I'm looking for plays during campaigns for both Northumbria and Wessex. There seems to be the slightest drum beat or two at the very beginning. There's a female voice singing a rather melancholic tune and some other instruments that I don't recognize.

[Mr_Nygren]

I believe the song I'm looking for plays during campaigns for both Northumbria and Wessex. There seems to be the slightest drum beat or two at the very beginning. There's a female voice singing a rather melancholic tune and some other instruments that I don't recognize.

I suggest first and foremost to download the inofficial 4.0 patch for access to most songs in use by the Saxons. It might be among them.

You see - i used songs from DBM, songs from the inofficial 4.0 patch, songs from Merlin 1998 and songs from Youtube (searching for folklore songs of the peoples in question and downloading straight from Youtube) to make the music for Alba, Irish factions, Saxons and Gwynedd.

About the Norse, Francs, slavs and Finns/Sami the lists should be in the Baltic forum.

[blodhemn]

And downloading this patch might give the name of the song? I'm not trying to just get the short clip that plays in the game, but the full song and to, perhaps, discover the artist and check out more of their work to see if it is similar to this. I made a recording of it with my phone, I could email to you or something, if you think it would help you identify it?

[Mr_Nygren]

And downloading this patch might give the name of the song? I'm not trying to just get the short clip that plays in the game, but the full song and to, perhaps, discover the artist and check out more of their work to see if it is similar to this. I made a recording of it with my phone, I could email to you or something, if you think it would help you identify it?

The patch used the full songs and isn't my work.. I cut all the songs in half to avoid trouble - it also has the real names i believe.

You still need to go to the mods workshop and find the program that you place in the sounds-folder - and then extract the music from the games files. Unless they are already extracted in his files. Then they will be in the sounds-folder of the patch or mod.

[blodhemn]

That kind of stuff is quite over my head. Even when I followed the precise instructions to install this submod in the first place, I get bugs and weird issues. Like whenever I click on Köln, the game crashes. None of the factions are very aggressive at all, even on hard. Hell, I'm blockading all of Denmark's ports right now and it tells me that we have perfect relations and they aren't fighting back.

[Mr_Nygren]

That kind of stuff is quite over my head. Even when I followed the precise instructions to install this submod in the first place, I get bugs and weird issues. Like whenever I click on Köln, the game crashes. None of the factions are very aggressive at all, even on hard. Hell, I'm blockading all of Denmark's ports right now and it tells me that we have perfect relations and they aren't fighting back.

You probably followed the wrong outdated instructions. I don't have control over the moddb-page - the original TLK-mod is not my work.

And as such the outdated instructions do not apply to the submod.

With standalone i meant that you should not use the older uploads in any way. My submod only requires my submod. It's a mod in it's own right. It's called a submod because it expands on the older mod - but in essence it doesn't require the older mod to be installed first. And if you try to overwrite the older mod the mod will not work well and you'll get crashes.

"It's standalone, independant. Don't mix the original TLK 3.06 with this 3.9 or you will likely have problems"

[blodhemn]

Okej, for the retarded, what is the best link you recommend then? I'll try to reinstall.

As for the track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT_1Ql73z0M

[Mr_Nygren]

Okej, for the retarded, what is the best link you recommend then? I'll try to reinstall.

As for the track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT_1Ql73z0M

Alright, if i were you i would simply download this file here:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-last-...on-submod-v-39

Install in one way if you have the CD-version:

1. Just extract the downloaded RAR-file using a program like WINRAR (it's free, just search for it on google and download it and install) and after that go inside of the downloaded folder and cut the folder inside of it (with the same name) out from that folder and just place it inside of your \SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods-folder.

Start the mod by clicking the bat-file with the name "Execute.bat" - NOT the "pagan Normans" or "Baptized Normans"-ones. I don't know if they work with my additions. Use the executive to be safe!

If you are using Steam then just do what you usually do to start a mod. But remember that Pagan and Baptized bat-files are not supported.

If you want to play the old original TLK 3.06 from 2013 then you could use Pagan and Baptized.bat files as well - and that mod is a different download on the same page.

Don't mix the two, as you only require 3.9 for the 3.9 version of the mod to work. I would always recommend 3.9 due to it being "my baby" in a sense. But the original has more of the same models and less variation, only vanilla settlements and different starting positions for a few factions.

So it's up to you.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi Mr_Nygren,
Just one thing spotted: Ragnar Lodbrok, Konungr of the Danish, sits on the coast of East Anglia at the beginning of the game (year 865). I'm not sure it's intended.
cheers
JoC

[Mr_Nygren]

Hi Mr_Nygren,
Just one thing spotted: Ragnar Lodbrok, Konungr of the Danish, sits on the coast of East Anglia at the beginning of the game (year 865). I'm not sure it's intended.
cheers
JoC

It was intended by the original developers.

- He is attacked by script on the second turn and killed off, much like in history even though it should have been Northumbria under King Aella in history - and not King Edmund of East Anglia. I did let that part be as it were in the original TLK - i would guess the thought behind it is that you as a Denmark-player should be able to rescue Ragnar and use him as a general/faction leader for the remainder of his life.

He is quite old by this time though and dies in a couple of years anyway. The TV-show doesn't have the correct time periods for all the characters.

[Jurand of Cracow]

It was intended by the original developers.

- He is attacked by script on the second turn and killed off, much like in history even though it should have been Northumbria under King Aella in history - and not King Edmund of East Anglia. I did let that part be as it were in the original TLK - i would guess the thought behind it is that you as a Denmark-player should be able to rescue Ragnar and use him as a general/faction leader for the remainder of his life.

He is quite old by this time though and dies in a couple of years anyway. The TV-show doesn't have the correct time periods for all the characters.

Thanks, Mr_Nygren.
I've got a question: are your music additions available as a stand-alone submod?
JoC

[Mr_Nygren]

Thanks, Mr_Nygren.
I've got a question: are your music additions available as a stand-alone submod?
JoC

Nope, you'd need to extract the music from this mod and add it manually to any other mod.

- There are slight differences between the music in Wrath of the Norsemen, and the music in TLK: WotN - slavs and finns have unique stuff, as well as the Saxons, Gwynedd, Alba and the Irish.

- The music of the Norsemen and the Francs are the same.

In the Grand Campaign i have a completely new group of songs finished in last novembre for the Imperium Romanorum. It's really good especially in battle.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Nope, you'd need to extract the music from this mod and add it manually to any other mod.

Thanks for the answer. I guess it would be appreciated by anybody playing the base TLK 4.0 mod if you'd spare 10 minutes and make such a standalone submod. For somebody who is not familiar with modding of the M2TW music it'd take some hours to learn and then to find out all the mistakes he'd made on the way. Fast modding is a matter of experience - one's finding out the pitfalls he's been fallen into ;-) You're seasoned modder of the music so for you it'd be a piece of cake :-)

[Mr_Nygren]

Thanks for the answer. I guess it would be appreciated by anybody playing the base TLK 4.0 mod if you'd spare 10 minutes and make such a standalone submod. For somebody who is not familiar with modding of the M2TW music it'd take some hours to learn and then to find out all the mistakes he'd made on the way. Fast modding is a matter of experience - one's finding out the pitfalls he's been fallen into ;-) You're seasoned modder of the music so for you it'd be a piece of cake :-)

The base-mod is version 3.06 - version 4.0 is Unofficial and as such is no more official than my submod man.

- Also, what would be the point - my submod has all the changes of 4.0. The only things it doesn't have is the different starting positions of certain factions and less varied faction rosters, vanilla settlements and vanilla music.

I realize you'd want the music but not all of the other stuff? I don't really see why unless you prefer the earlier starting position. As an example Denmark might be a fun faction in the original if you play that faction as the player - but the AI will focus on Europe and will never move the fleet to Britain.

- AI Denmark will move the fleet back to Europe to fight the Francs. And that is the main reason of the changed starting position for the faction. Then the new factions had to be placed out of course, and the Norse also belonged in Britain and Ireland i thought. Otherwise the stupid Med2 AI would never move them to Britain and/or Ireland.

Moving the music is not hard - but it still would take some time editing the files. As it's the same regions it would be way faster than porting to another mod. But i do not want to upload a music-mod as a stand-alone mod if i don't have to.

- The only reason i did so with Third Age: D&C was because the leader of that mod said no to use it as official music of the mod.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I've actually started with your submod to the TLK, but spotted those unit cards without pictures (you've stated somewhere that they're not important to you), and I also thought there's some mess in the rosters. Since I think that each moder is interested only in some parts of the mods that are dear to him (eg. for me, these are traits and gameplay, but also the immersion provided by pics ;-), I'd concluded that you'd made changes in some parts of the mod leaving other parts unbalanced. I've decided to take up TLK 4.0 version then. I'd read the description of your mod beforehand - you don't provide the list of those "minor bugs and errors fixed" so it was difficult to consider if they're essential.

I think there're still some problems in the files for both 4.0 and your submod (like the one I'm asking a counsel here, or another command in the EDB not working as Gigantus said, or the trait system - I've adjusted those economic ones a bit for my self, in my style)

Now the Danish AI behavior issue sounds quite convincing to me. How have you fixed it? Changing the AI or the starting positions?
Maybe you've got that list of fixes handy?

BTW, I've got a few questions:
- do you know why Gwynedd's capital at the beginning of the game is "Rhuthun" not "Deangwy"? Is it historical?
- why the bodyguards are called "Dumnonian cavalry"? Dumnoni lived in Cornwall which is far away from Gwynedd...
- why Hobilars are so cheap in recruitment? is it a mistake, or is it intentional?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A general question about EDU: why there're so many (all?) units from the base Medieval 2? Is it intentional, or just unfinished?


Besides, what is your opinion on the balance of the economy (income, units' and buildings' costs) and the loyalty mechanisms (which should be the most important hurdles in creating a kingdom in 9-10 century - this is really well depicted (although I don't know if well-balanced) in the Thrones of Britannia)?

[Mr_Nygren]

I've actually started with your submod to the TLK, but spotted those unit cards without pictures (you've stated somewhere that they're not important to you), and I also thought there's some mess in the rosters. Since I think that each moder is interested only in some parts of the mods that are dear to him (eg. for me, these are traits and gameplay, but also the immersion provided by pics ;-), I'd concluded that you'd made changes in some parts of the mod leaving other parts unbalanced. I've decided to take up TLK 4.0 version then. I'd read the description of your mod beforehand - you don't provide the list of those "minor bugs and errors fixed" so it was difficult to consider if they're essential.

I think there're still some problems in the files for both 4.0 and your submod (like the one I'm asking a counsel here, or another command in the EDB not working as Gigantus said, or the trait system - I've adjusted those economic ones a bit for my self, in my style)

Now the Danish AI behavior issue sounds quite convincing to me. How have you fixed it? Changing the AI or the starting positions?
Maybe you've got that list of fixes handy?

BTW, I've got a few questions:
- do you know why Gwynedd's capital at the beginning of the game is "Rhuthun" not "Deangwy"? Is it historical?
- why the bodyguards are called "Dumnonian cavalry"? Dumnoni lived in Cornwall which is far away from Gwynedd...
- why Hobilars are so cheap in recruitment? is it a mistake, or is it intentional?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A general question about EDU: why there're so many (all?) units from the base Medieval 2? Is it intentional, or just unfinished?


Besides, what is your opinion on the balance of the economy (income, units' and buildings' costs) and the loyalty mechanisms (which should be the most important hurdles in creating a kingdom in 9-10 century - this is really well depicted (although I don't know if well-balanced) in the Thrones of Britannia)?

First off, i did create unit portraits for all the new units of the new faction rosters. I didn't create unit_info-portraits - the difference is the unit portraits are the ones you click on (they are important) and the unit_info-portraits are the ones when you right click on a unit to read it's description and stats (they are not important for the gameplay). I created over thirty unit cards, and i did also work on Warcraft Total War at the same time. Of course i can't be bothered with those info-cards, and unit_info-cards they aren't visible when on the strat-map or in battle - unless you right click on a unit to see it's stats. Also, some of the units had old info-cards but there were some units never used before or with info-pics never created before.

- Traits are the same in both mods, i haven't touched that area at all - but you are right that i usually don't bother with traits at all.

- Of course gameplay is the most important thing for me as well.

- For me the immersion is very important, but i think custom settlements, music and unit rosters with unit portraits are way more important for the immersion than unit-info pictures.

I did balance all the new rosters based on already existing factions, and took into account the new gear of each unit. The only thing that could be in need of improvement is the economy of some factions. But i didn't leave that unfinished neither - it just didn't work well as some new units are very costly and could be making things hard economically. I've already improved Gwynedds economy in my version which i am playing currently.

"you don't provide the list of those "minor bugs and errors fixed" so it was difficult to consider if they're essential."

I did provide the entire list, you just missed it somehow. In the final picture uploaded at MODDB in it's description i did mention everything changed. In the article as well, i did mention all the fixing done.

- They were essential for the Ui'Neill and they aren't in the original mod. Also, they were essential for the sound of Gautland, Western Francia and the Ui'Neill and all of them aren't in the original or it's unofficial patch. Without the fixing they had no voices on the strat-map and the Ui'Neill had rebels spawning in it's capital, thus making them not visible on the strat-map - making it impossible for the AI to move out of the capital because it could sense an enemy army garrisoned there.

Traits and scripts weren't my work. I did port such things from the Unofficial patch by comparing it's files using Total Caommander. - There may be an issue with population growth and that is something i will need to find out by playing the mod.

_ I haven't played a campaign myself but i've gotten reports of population growth being re-set to earlier levels. This is not okay as i need to be able to upgrade settlements to get later units for Gwynedd and some others. So i will fix any such issues that i find when playing the mod.

- But i won't fix any old issues conserning scripts or traits.

- I am not sure what the taxable income is supposed to do - it's not a feature by me.

"Now the Danish AI behavior issue sounds quite convincing to me. How have you fixed it? Changing the AI or the starting positions?
Maybe you've got that list of fixes handy?"

By making Denmark start in a rebel-village next to East Anglia with the two armies on the ships in the original. Thus giving them one area in Britain so they will fight to keep it and expand. It worked very well in the release of february 2017 - but i may have weakened them too much in the recent release and as such they might fail and be beaten by East Anglia in some campaigns. In the february 2017-release they did indeed conquer East Anglia, Northumbria and Mercia - and they were a threat to Wessex and the player when playing Gwynedd.

- But their troops had high experience which i lowered, maybe they got weakened too much.

No, the fix is that you need to play one of the two versions that i did release. The first one is slightly different as it has the original Irish, Gwynedd, Mercian, Wessex, East Anglian and Albian rosters while having less new units for Denmark and others. It also doesn't have the factions of Gautland, West Francia or the Ui'Neill. But Denmark is a much bigger threat.

"- do you know why Gwynedd's capital at the beginning of the game is "Rhuthun" not "Deangwy"? Is it historical?"

I've got no idea. I changed it to Deganvy after starting to play. Maybe it's a mistake, or maybe it was Rhutun from the beginning. It could be that the settlement was placed above Deganwy in the descr_strat-file. The settlement at the top is always the capital until you change it in the game when playing. Maybe it's a blunder that will be corrected in an update if that is the case.

"- why the bodyguards are called "Dumnonian cavalry"? Dumnoni lived in Cornwall which is far away from Gwynedd..."

The original TLK and it's 4.0 patch, as well as my first version of TLK: WotN (still available) used the original Gwynedd roster - they used Dumnonian Bodyguards. TLK (the original) is based on the books and not that historically accurate. If you compare these rosters with the ones from Wrath of the Norsemen you can clearly see that the WotN ones are based on history as much as possible while TLK-rosters are based on books and Hollywood.

- The new Gwynedd in my submod has the correct bodyguard historically i think. In all instances the roster is much better looking.

Hobilars? What faction do they belong to? As i've said there are different rosters in my submod so i cannot answer for those i did replace.

"A general question about EDU: why there're so many (all?) units from the base Medieval 2? Is it intentional, or just unfinished?"

- I've removed all or most vanilla units to make room for my new units. I do not know why Danova left so many vanilla units in the EDU-file - he probably didn't have to remove them all.

- In the original TLK-mod all the saxons share units (no unique), all the norse/danes share (no unique), all the Irish share (no unique) etc.

So there are a lot of EDU-slots unused or still filled with vanilla entries because they didn't have to replace them.

- I did have to replace them to make room for new rosters.

"Besides, what is your opinion on the balance of the economy (income, units' and buildings' costs) and the loyalty mechanisms (which should be the most important hurdles in creating a kingdom in 9-10 century - this is really well depicted (although I don't know if well-balanced) in the Thrones of Britannia)?"

The economy is as it were in the original but may be too hard for some factions due to new costly units. Gwynedd would get bankrupt fast - i had to edit them to play them without getting bankrupt. Of course i will update the mod again when i have finished the Gwynedd campaign and fixed any issues i find while playing.

I think the economy and population growth might still need improvement.

Edit:

Plz do not play the older versions (orginal/4.0 patch) and then ask me why there are vanilla stuff etc in those versions? It's annoying, because i have aldready changed that in the version i have been working on. I cannot and will not answer more questions about other versions.