Medieval Kingdoms Total War : The Khwarazmian Empire and the Armies of Iran

[Visarion]

You can always start a submod... MKTW 1111

[zsimmortal]

You guys should probably take this discussion to the stickied threads about the actual campaign, as this is a faction thread and should remain dedicated to the roster of said faction.

[Visarion]

Given the fact tgat the Eldiguzids of Ardhan were invaded by Georgians but not completely conquered best if in Kwarazm

Edit

For your late kwarazm troops

Shirvan allied to ak qoyunlu against timurids



See the typical ak koyunlu turkoman late gelmets to identify them

The above snd this





Maybe late shirvan / safavid troos as well!?

[zsimmortal]

Finished making the Qizilbash units that will be in for T3. So here's a little preview :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Qizilbash - Light horse archers



Qizilbash lancers - Light lancers

The rest of the roster is still some ways away because I still have not made too much so far, but it is being worked on.

[Visarion]

Looking good but wirk harder to finish t3!

[M.A.E]

Excellent work but it is a better if your troops could be used as mercenies or latter tier 2 troops for the Ayyubids as the Khwarazm's empire soon falls and their units used as mercenary for century and later trained as mamluk special regmint in the (shagrat el dor) first mamluk queen .as she was from khwarizm ..

[zsimmortal]

Excellent work but it is a better if your troops could be used as mercenies or latter tier 2 troops for the Ayyubids as the Khwarazm's empire soon falls and their units used as mercenary for century and later trained as mamluk special regmint in the (shagrat el dor) first mamluk queen .as she was from khwarizm ..

That's something you should take up with the person doing the Ayyubids. As far as I remember, the Khwarizmiyya were only relevant for a brief period during the middle of the 13th century.

[Visarion]

U wanted to say also as mercs 4 the ayyubids roght? 2 b frank most of tge Kwarezmians sibject continued with little influence from the Mongols, a a proof see the many splinters with mostly a Persian/Arab identity and Mamluk/ Kurdish Turkic.

[M.A.E]

-The khwarizm empire influenced alot so their units must be AOR for persia till 13th century then be recruited by Egypt Syria persia Turks and mongols as the mid 13th .that's. Is historically accurate though not all the troops but the heavy khwarizm cavalry used by Damascus's sultan Al-Ashraf later and by Egyptian mamluk Sultanate as an regiment in the cavalry and afterwards merged with mamluks classes ..
And the one who is in charge of Ayyubids in the mod must know that the middle east in 13-15th century was Egypt vs mongols vs some minor crusader states and the Turks were busy uniforming their new established empire ,thus strengthen Egypt in tier 2/3 by All other Khwarism-Ghorid-Abbassid-Syrian troops is a must Egypt was the caliphate at that time were the last remaining refuges of the Abbasid caliphate royal family lived their but only with name without being engaged in politics...
Hope that my point is clear so

[zsimmortal]

-The khwarizm empire influenced alot so their units must be AOR for persia till 13th century then be recruited by Egypt Syria persia Turks and mongols as the mid 13th .that's. Is historically accurate though not all the troops but the heavy khwarizm cavalry used by Damascus's sultan Al-Ashraf later and by Egyptian mamluk Sultanate as an regiment in the cavalry and afterwards merged with mamluks classes ..

Khwarazm is a faction of its own, not a bunch of AoR units. AoR units are usually native troops, not foreigners that happened to rule over the area.

And the one who is in charge of Ayyubids in the mod must know that the middle east in 13-15th century was Egypt vs mongols vs some minor crusader states and the Turks were busy uniforming their new established empire ,thus strengthen Egypt in tier 2/3 by All other Khwarism-Ghorid-Abbassid-Syrian troops is a must Egypt was the caliphate at that time were the last remaining refuges of the Abbasid caliphate royal family lived their but only with name without being engaged in politics...
Hope that my point is clear so

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest here. The Ayyubids will have their own units for high and late eras based on their local successor, the Mamluk Sultanate. Why would they have units from Iraq, Iran, Khorasan and Afghanistan?

[Visarion]

Just some fugitives from kwarazm... but as immortal said tge great majority remained and thru diplomacy accepted the Mongol suzeranity and kept their traditions... see Kerman, Shirvan, Ghurids etc. Only the Turkic Kwarazmian dynasty proper was onliterated... well some of tge great cities wrre invaded, burnt to the ground and so on, inhabitants punished, turned to sclaves just like Alexander did ages before in Gaza, Tyr, India etc. Mongols did that in Arbil, Baghdad etc.

[M.A.E]

What I mean is the khwarizm empire and Ayyubid have common units as (Khwarizman cavalry-Heavy infantry ....etc)

-the mamluks itself is a huge organization and has the khwarizm section and cuman and Turkish .. Etc so the units of khwarizm empire itself can be recruitment available

[zsimmortal]

What I mean is the khwarizm empire and Ayyubid have common units as (Khwarizman cavalry-Heavy infantry ....etc)

-the mamluks itself is a huge organization and has the khwarizm section and cuman and Turkish .. Etc so the units of khwarizm empire itself can be recruitment available

I really don't know what you're talking about. The Khwarazmian empire and Ayyubid dynasty might have had some common elements in their armies, as most contemporary armies do, but how does that apply to our mod? Every army is tailored to their faction's (or regional successor's) historical armies (when applicable). The Ayyubid first tier is bulky enough as is, but if the person working on them wants to add units, no real problem. But why would units from other regions just be added to rosters for the sake of it? How would a Mamluk from Khwarazm be any different than a Qipchaq? They'd both be trained and equipped in the same fashion.

[Visarion]

I guess what zsimmortal wantd to say is that Ayyubids will have early mamluks originated from the turkic mercs of kwarazm and slaves from the steppes as well in high and circassians and georgisns in late. Adapted and trained to egypt style. Specific gear given by them. Tactics training formations role etc. Type of cav etc.

[zsimmortal]

I guess what zsimmortal wantd to say is that Ayyubids will have early mamluks originated from the turkic mercs of kwarazm and slaves from the steppes as well in high and circassians and georgisns in late. Adapted and trained to egypt style. Specific gear given by them. Tactics training formations role etc. Type of cav etc.

No, what I'm saying is where a Mamluk comes from is largely irrelevant, same as for a ghulam or janissary, for example. They're slaves, they are all trained in the same way and equipped from masters in their respective part of the world. That one is a Circassian or Qipchaq or Khwarazmian makes no real difference, only where they serve.

[Visarion]

Yeah you re right... so basically no mayter where they are from they will recievie training and gear specific to the faction and leaders that aquire them. Ok go it. All clear

[Visarion]

Maybe divide Fars into Baghdad-Fars and Shiraz-Kerman?

[M.A.E]

Maybe it will be clear with example ..
The third Mamluk sultan in Egypt is the Hier of throne of khwarizm empire he called his family in Egypt and he welcomed with refuges from iran and persia ...that's. Mean that the khwarizm and Egypt has commons in the strategies and army orginizations but what also what I am taking about is the Mercenary captain who is founded in Cairo to establish the Khwarizm troops to Jihad against the mongols .. So if the factions dies (khwarizm) It's troops could be trained by Egypt as jihad mercenary .. That's historically accurate .

[zsimmortal]

Maybe divide Fars into Baghdad-Fars and Shiraz-Kerman?

I'm not sure what you're suggesting, but if it is for the AoR, they're purely cut for gameplay purposes, not for accuracy.

Maybe it will be clear with example ..
The third Mamluk sultan in Egypt is the Hier of throne of khwarizm empire he called his family in Egypt and he welcomed with refuges from iran and persia ...that's. Mean that the khwarizm and Egypt has commons in the strategies and army orginizations but what also what I am taking about is the Mercenary captain who is founded in Cairo to establish the Khwarizm troops to Jihad against the mongols .. So if the factions dies (khwarizm) It's troops could be trained by Egypt as jihad mercenary .. That's historically accurate .

Lots of people welcomed refugees from Iran (the Sultanate of Rum had the largest number if I'm not mistaken). That does not make them soldiers that bring with them military traditions. The Khwarizmiyya are the only ones that I know of that were a somewhat independent group of soldiers, but they also only lived for some 15 years before being destroyed.

I very much doubt that the Ayyubids and Mamluks were recruiting large numbers of tribesmen from Khwarazm as a regular force rather than purchasing slaves to train as Mamluks.

[Visarion]

From what I remember rhey were somewhat independent and tried to form a new stste... in fact thry did in syria if i remember right but were cryshed by the crusaders or smth like tgat or fought against crusader don t remember exactly. Not chechink info...

Edit. Yeah they fought crusaders captured jerusalem and then defeated tge rest of crusaders alongside the ayyubids. Were defeated tgemselves in a war between damascus as allies and homs, a cvasi independent ayyubid domain