Medieval Kingdoms Total War : The Khwarazmian Empire and the Armies of Iran

[Imperator Karl franz IV SIGMA]

didn't The Turks at some times Mixed with Arabs because how big the Ottoman empire later become ?
most Turks do not lock like Arabs i was there 6 weeks

[Danishmend]

didn't The Turks at some times Mixed with Arabs because how big the Ottoman empire later become ?
most Turks do not lock like Arabs i was there 6 weeks

Turkish population of the Ottoman Empire was concentrated in Anatolia and Rumelia and these regions did not have Arab population (pre-Seljuk Anatolia was mostly Rum/Greek whereas Rumelia was mainly Bulgarian and Greek). The Turkish soldiers in conquered Arab/Berber lands are a different story though, they gave a rise to a local population known as "Kuloğlu" in those countries, their numbers are clearly exaggerated by the way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kouloughlis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Egypt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_the_Arab_world

This thread is not about Ottomans though, Khwarazmians are a different dynasty.

[hessam]

Turkish population of the Ottoman Empire was concentrated in Anatolia and Rumelia and these regions did not have Arab population (pre-Seljuk Anatolia was mostly Rum/Greek whereas Rumelia was mainly Bulgarian and Greek). The Turkish soldiers in conquered Arab/Berber lands are a different story though, they gave a rise to a local population known as "Kuloğlu" in those countries, their numbers are clearly exaggerated by the way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kouloughlis

This thread is not about Ottomans though, Khwarazmians are a different dynasty.

These are all good points. But part of the problem is due to the lack of variety among Attila's middle-eastern skins. So similarities between Arabs and the Turks of the Ottoman Empire or the Iranian peoples, for example, are unavoidable.

[Imperator Karl franz IV SIGMA]

thats through but i think you could change the skin color i saw it in terminus is it possible ?

[Danishmend]

These are all good points. But part of the problem is due to the lack of variety among Attila's middle-eastern skins. So similarities between Arabs and the Turks of the Ottoman Empire or the Iranian peoples, for example, are unavoidable.

I agree, but I think the beard styles below can change them a little bit. Is it possible for Seljuk and Khwarazmian Turkic units to have these Cuman beard styles? Eastern skin + these beards would make them more Turkic looking. We see similar beard styles in Seljuks bowls and ceramics too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[hessam]

I agree, but I think the beard styles below can change them a little bit. Is it possible for Seljuk and Khwarazmian Turkic units to have these Cuman beard styles? Eastern skin + these beards would make them more Turkic looking. We see similar beard styles in Seljuks bowls and ceramics too.

It's doable, but aren't those bowls for the Great Seljuks? Seljuks of Rum would have a different demographic.

Edit: But that would make sense for the "turkic" units like you said.

[Imperator Karl franz IV SIGMA]

great work and good idea you mean like this

[zsimmortal]

I agree, but I think the beard styles below can change them a little bit. Is it possible for Seljuk and Khwarazmian Turkic units to have these Cuman beard styles? Eastern skin + these beards would make them more Turkic looking. We see similar beard styles in Seljuks bowls and ceramics too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don't really have strong feelings one way or another, so I'll check out how much 'steppification' I can do tonight. I also like the Alani skin(s?), so I could mix it in with select Persian ones. Keep in mind that the ethnic 'Turkic' units are not meant to be from far out into the steps, but rather groups that migrated or were settled in Khwarazm or Iran since before and after the Seljuq conquest.

So basically Aq Qoyunlu fir Kwarezmians and Sultanate of Delhi for Ghurids!?

It's much more complex than that. The Khwarazmians are somewhat sufficiently established in terms of military until the dynasty ended, but beyond that, most influences in terms of visuals and army composition will rely on the Ilkhanate and successors along with, to a much smaller degree, the Anatolian Turkomans (high era), and the Turkoman dynasties (marginally for the high era, mostly for the late era). But they won't be firmly based on those, rather just use their equipment and are inspired by what kind of troops were used.

The Ghurids are first and foremost an infantry-based faction, they'll just get more and more Indianized as the game progresses. They're not the Sultanate of Delhi per se, though some elements will find itself into the faction (like the Khiljid military reforms for the high era).

[Imperator Karl franz IV SIGMA]

yes your right

[Visarion]

So basically Aq Qoyunlu fir Kwarezmians and Sultanate of Delhi for Ghurids!?

[kultegin]

I am from Central Asia. I was born in 200km from Khwarezm. Do i need to provide western sources on how we look? this is ridiculous. LOL.

It is true that our people are mixture of mongols, turks, persians (who ever migrated/conquered and settled in the region), compared to our homogeneous turkic neighbors. But if you travel to Iran and UZ, you will not find single arab/persian looking person unless they are tajiks.

[zsimmortal]

I am from Central Asia. I was born in 200km from Khwarezm. Do i need to provide western sources on how we look? this is ridiculous. LOL.

It is true that our people are mixture of mongols, turks, persians (who ever migrated/conquered and settled in the region), compared to our homogeneous turkic neighbors. But if you travel to Iran and UZ, you will not find single arab/persian looking person unless they are tajiks.

I don't doubt that today they look much different than people living on the Iranian plateau, but Iranians dominated the area for millenia. That people travelling there around the mod's period and notice that Turks and native Iranians of Khwarazm look pretty much the same should be telling. We're talking about an area that fell under Mongol, Turko-Mongol, Uzbek and Russian control. So yeah, there's probably a lot of genetic donations from elsewhere between then and now. Modern people from Transoxiana are not going to look the same as people back then. As much as I'd like to have some better skins to put for the units, Mongol-looking Huns and Western Europeans don't quite cut it.

[Dontfearme22]

I have a Mexican friend but I won't be modeling a picture of the emperor Moctezuma on him just because his family is from Mexico city. The fact also, that you [kultegin] call basically all non-central asian middle-easterners 'arabs' with "ninja robes" makes me doubt your reputability as a source even more. If this comment is too pointed, feel free to delete it-just needed to say it.

[Visarion]

Btw... totakly offtopic... don t dear me... what daction are u currently working on!?

[zsimmortal]

So, looking to draw on the main boards' knowledge...I'Ve been working on shield patterns for teardrop shields, but this is the only base to work with :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is what I have so far :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So any ideas would be pretty neat. Also, ignore the units, they're not meant to be anything, just a test model.

[achilles-91]

Cant wait to see late era armys of Khwarazmians and other turks.

[Visarion]

Other Turks yes... and Kwarezmians fighting for the Mamluks together with the Kurds... hope to see the Mamluks and their Kwarazmian troops...

[kultegin]

i didn't mean to hurt your feelings or insult your culture. I just don't know what culture you guys follow or name of the robes you guys wear. Should i call you muslim? is it your ethnicity now? well didn't know that. Also you guys don't call central asian empires muslim empires. they were not. Central Asia always was middle-east free society and was never influenced by latter. Central Asia is totally different mentality, culture and upbringing. Muslim empire thing does not work with central asia. keep your religion, culture and arabic cavalry in your peninsula, no need to bring it to steppe. it is not appreciated in tolerant and multicultural societies like central asia where people lived in peace despite their differences. Folks here don't like it. just saying.

[Lucem Mundum]

Also you guys don't call central asian empires muslim empires. they were not.

They were Islamic wither you like it or not. I would even argue that the Seljuks and Khwaresmians were even more religious than their Moor and Arab counterparts.

Central Asia always was middle-east free society and was never influenced by latter. Central Asia is totally different mentality, culture and upbringing.

Adopting Islam alone makes them heavily influenced by middle eastern culture, mentality, and upbringing as you put it.

it is not appreciated in tolerant and multicultural societies like central asia where people lived in peace despite their differences.

Steppe cultures were not peaceful at all. They were very violent even by medieval standards.

[Imperator Karl franz IV SIGMA]