What if the Ottoman empire was completely destroyed by Timor and never recovered .

[Owlparrot3]

What if during his invasion Timor had completely destroyed all the remnants of the Ottoman empire rather than partially harming them like he did historically .What would the effects be politically and culturally. This happened in 1402 .Would the byzantine empire live on .Would Mam luk rule in Egypt continue .Please feel free to discuss .

[bigdaddy1204]

I think the effects would have been...interesting. In Anatolia, probably nothing much changes. Eventually one of the other Turkish beyliks simply takes up the batton and Anatolia stays Turkish. The real point of difference becomes Europe, specifically the Balkans. The Ottomans control nearly the whole Balkans already by 1402, but the destruction of their empire might perhaps open up the possibility of Bulgaria becoming independent again, and probably Serbia gaining some territory. Various small independent or crusader states existed along the western seaboard, these might continue a bit longer in this alternate timeline.

In the long run though, Constantinople is still going to become a Turkish city. The Byzantine Empire no longer really exists by 1402, it's limited to the walls of Constantinople only and a tiny strip of land in the Peloponnese. The Byzantine Empire is beyond recovery at this point and a defeat by Timur is too little, too late to change that. The most extreme scenario I could imagine would be Constantinople falling under Serbian or Bulgarian rule, but this seems unlikely. Most probably it simply becomes the capital of a new Turkish state.

As for Egypt, I'm not really familiar with its history in this period and couldn't comment, but an independent Egypt could be quite significant historically as in our timeline, the Arab world was under Ottoman rule for centuries before being carved up by western European powers with disastrous consequences after the Ottomans fell. If Egypt and other Arab lands could have maintained their independence, who knows, the Middle East could be a very different place today and quite likely significantly the better for it.

[Owlparrot3]

I think that after the ottomans only the christian state of Trebizond was powerful enough and second in power .Imagine a christian turkey.Maybe the Safvids would have been powerful plus it would take about a 100 years for a second turkish state like trebizond to rise to the level the ottomans were in 1402 .Then after that further expansion .So no sudden rebirth of a great turkish empire .Plus quara and aq quolo .you big daddy need to take them into consideration as well .

[River Lord]

Trebizond wasn't powerful at all. Even Byzantine who got stuck in walls of Constantinople was more powerful than Trebizond. 2 Turkish tribes (some says they were actually one but split into two and even fought each other) literally penetrated Trebizond Empire. Emperor of Trebizond gave his daughters to their leaders to make peace but time to time they raided the empire. Even very close areas of capital of the empire. They lost their huge area to 2 very small Turkish tribes. Btw, these tribes known as 'Chepni' and they are very famous with their war-like nature.

Btw, about your question; Just like BD already have said, most likely another Turkish tribe would take the lead. Actually, for Turkish custom, it doesn't even have to be something big like this to capture entire empire. If a tribe sense weakness of rulers, they challenge and take entire empire from their former emperors. That's why Ottomans kept dividing tribes. They sent some part of a tribe; let's say to Serbia another part to Iraq and rest in somewhere in Anatolia. You can see such examples in Iranian history. For example, how Nadir Shah got the rule...

[Owlparrot3]

But i still think that Serbia could have been a bigger power than what it was historically .What do you think .

[Tureuki]

If the family was entirely destroyed, probably high ranking families inside of the empire would start a quarrel to take the lead, eventually someone would be victorious but most of the former glory would be gone. The new state would be limited with Bithnyia and some of the surrounding areas in Anatolia, and probably Thrace, parts of Macedonia, Thessaly and Bulgaria. Rumelia wouldnt be instantly gone because it was a well established frontier with thousands of Akinjis and newly transferred Turkish settlers.

Serbia would be gone and Karamanids would try to dominate Anatolia and their success would depend on whoever leads them. Whether other beyliks would do is up to who leads them as well. They would stay passive or aggressively try to expand their power. Byzantines were so dead to regain any significiant land. Bulgaria might try independence but they were seemingly so damn weak militarily, even Akinji families would dominate them.

In summary, I believe the "new" Ottoman state would still be a dominant power in Anatolia and Balkans but would probably not reach the success of 16th century. Conquest of Constantinople would take longer likely.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

In the long run though, Constantinople is still going to become a Turkish city. The Byzantine Empire no longer really exists by 1402, it's limited to the walls of Constantinople only and a tiny strip of land in the Peloponnese. The Byzantine Empire is beyond recovery at this point and a defeat by Timur is too little, too late to change that. The most extreme scenario I could imagine would be Constantinople falling under Serbian or Bulgarian rule, but this seems unlikely. Most probably it simply becomes the capital of a new Turkish state.

I thoroughly disagree. The majority of the Peloponnese was still Roman and in 1444 they conquered up to Athens before the Ottomans came in and smashed them at the Hexamilion wall.

In 1405 they were gifted everything in Greece but Adrianople, including Thessalonica, their second most important city, by the usurper to the Ottoman throne. The problem was that it immediately all came under seige by the Ottomans after 1411 and was sold to Venice in 1422. In reality in the face of Ottoman collapse, what would happen is not Turkish ownership of Constantinople, but Italian.