We need to discuss some important things about Dark Elves and IN-GAME SEXUALITY.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Ok people first of, CA has based the current units on their tabletop models and there are/were only 2 models before Age of came long that actually were nude and that was the Medusa and Morathi and one of those is an old model that would have been changed as well had they updated it.
Wood Elves and Vampire were never sexual either in terms of their models so again, all CA did was copy the models.
I think CA will follow the models yet again when it come the Dark Elves so I do expect them to follow the same when it comes to the Dark Elves and Slaanesh units(who has been covered up by GW as well I might add except for the steeds who still got multiple breasts) except Morathi might wear a top now which I'm fine with since she doesn't have her tits out in the latest artwork.
And Witch Elves aren't sexual either, not really. Yes to a male they might be dressed sexy but actual sex isn't something they do based on the last lore that they did for them. Essentially if you see a witch elf your best bet is to run away rather then stay and flirt them since sex isn't on their minds at all but rather bathing in your blood and playing jump-rope with your entrails.
And before someone points out that Dark Elves society is a decadent one, yes I know but such things doesn't show up in a total war game to begin with and I doubt they will start now especially when it's not needed.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Dont really see a particular difference between all the stupid fantasy steriotypes and this particular fantasy stereotype to be honest. The objectification of women is pretty mild compared to most other fantasy worlds, and the objectification of men as dumb warhungry brutes that want to die in battle with their 8 packs out flowing in the wind is a bit "worse" (As in none of these "issues" is worth caring about at all)

There's accounts of women using sex as a weapon in history, and more importantly in greek mythology where the dark elves draw a lot of their inspiration from, Hydras, harpies, manticores and an amazon expy who were the OG chain mail bikini warrior cult. Having been around a bit the girls in warhammer are pretty modest compared to the real world anyway.

Well, there isn't a difference between either stupid fantasy stereotype, it's just that this thread is about this particular stupid fantasy stereotype. If someone made a thread about Norscan musclemen running around with axes taller than them in shorts and vests I would make a post there too. I don't even know that I would call either objectification, though I guess they are, but that's irrelevant to me. Objectification of women in a fantasy world is fine, look at ASoIaF. Women can have interesting rolls and become important characters even within a society that objectifies them.

Again, I don't care that it's sexual, or nudity. Harpies and Amazons are perfect examples of nudity that has zero sexual context and is culturally relevant. Greeks fought naked all the time, but there's a huge difference between sitting on a horse in a chiton with your breasts out, and running around in leather bondage gear. Imagine a portrayal of Spartan Hoplites where they were all zipped up in gimp suits with ball gags and you'd have a rather good example of why this is a silly stereotype.


I mean, it's not as if Witch Elves are even sexual in the lore. If that was their thing, if they were basically sirens who drew men in with their looks and then slaughtered them, that would be perfectly fine! But they aren't. They're just warriors. There's literally zero reason for them to sexualized other than the fact that they have tits. It's lazy and it's cheap.

Stuff

I would criticize a fantasy world with a culture full of berserkers wearing cowboy hats and assless chaps, too, because it's silly. It's not some "attack on masculinity" whatever the that means.

Frankly, they just look tacky. Not sexy, tacky. Precisely like all the silly Norscans, they just look like some sort of Conan-esque ripoffs from 80s-90s, B-movie fantasy. It wasn't good on it's own, and it's not good thrust into a world that isn't B-movie fantasy either.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Frankly, they just look tacky. Not sexy, tacky. Precisely like all the silly Norscans, they just look like some sort of Conan-esque ripoffs from 80s-90s, B-movie fantasy. It wasn't good on it's own, and it's not good thrust into a world that isn't B-movie fantasy either.

Each to their own but I love B-movies, it's quite often that they are even better then Hollywood movies.
And I'm not alone when it comes to this, just look at the following movies like Troll 2 has.
And I do find it strange that you say that Warhammer Fantasy isn't a B-movie fantasy and yet in some parts it most certainly is and intentionally so and you even acknowledge that.
Also might want to point out that Witch Elves aren't wearing armor, not even chainmail bikinis. Rule-wise they got no armor at all and model-wise they are wearing the Princess Leia slave outfit which I doubt anyone would put in the "chainmail bikini" category.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

And that's fine. Again, I want to stress, Im not suggesting that they change anything, some people like B-movies, some people like things, "So bad they're good."


Parts of it certainly are B-movie fantasy, like anything to do with Norscans for instance. But other parts are quite well done, even unique. Almost everything about the Empire is very interesting. Very few fantasy worlds are set in a Renaissance setting.

Which is why the silly things, like the Orcs or the scantily-clad elf women, are especially jarring.


(Note, none of this applies to Warhammer 40K, though, which is all very good and original.

Except the Greenskins, those are still stupid even in space.

Maybe especially in space.)

[cmk33n]

I can barely stomach these neo-victorian moralists throwing heaps of culture onto their sacred pyre, and I am confident I am in the majority.

Nudity is not objectification, naked women are not objectified a-priori. It is a specific targeting of art, classical fantasy art involving female sexuality and the female body, and warhammer. The reasons are all sickly and all based around extremist politics.

Their is NOTHING wrong with the design of dark elfs and wood elf nudity, *keep your far-right and far-left garbage out of art and entertainment.*

The sad thing is I just *know* that the devs will puss out and be bullied by these goons.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oh, definitely. It's classic fantasy art. Completely tasteful. Culturally relevant to the Dark Elves' character.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bikinis on the battlefield are actually well-known. Extremely common in fantasy, definitely not stupid and impractical and sexualized for no reason at all.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I mean, how someone could look at something like this, so obviously relevant and important to the lore, and come to the conclusion that it's nothing more than a weak parody of old-fashioned B-fantasy trying to attract teenage boys... It's just... Flabbergasting, truly.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Obviously it's extremely important that all Dark elf women are perfectly attractive to the average 12-18 year old male and that they expose approximately 90% of their body while walking around on the field of battle... For some reason. Obviously there's a reason for it, right? Like an appropriate, sensible lore reason for why they are almost-but-not-quite naked? Definitely. Probably.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It's not like it's a derivative cliche that's become a point of mockery in the fantasy genre or anything.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In fact, I'd say it's empowering to women.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They should really be thankful that a bunch of guys decided to portray them so clearly, empoweringly displaying their sexuality.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There's nothing that says, "I am a legitimate threat that you should take seriously on the battlefield" like a bunch of bikini models running around in bondage gear with daggers and whips.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Because, at the end of the day, isn't that what fantasy is really all about? Cheap cliches, appealing to horny teens, and a tacky, nonsensical aesthetic?

Move out of the way, Tolkien, because fantasy is truly art now. Galadriel? More like Galad-you're basically naked so you sell well. Brienne of Tarth? More like Boobs Boobsingboobs.

Truly, this is the height of fantasy culture.

[Baron of Hyrule]

(Stubs toe on box)

Ouch! What the- huh, seems to be a box filled with " /s".

I wonder who dropped this?

(You forgot breast-exposed Morathi by the way)

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Im fine with the nudity, it's the bondage gear that gets me.

Daemonettes look great. I would post a picture of them, but Im pretty sure it would get me reprimanded on TWC, which is exactly how Daemonettes should be.

[Påsan]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oh, definitely. It's classic fantasy art. Completely tasteful. Culturally relevant to the Dark Elves' character.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bikinis on the battlefield are actually well-known. Extremely common in fantasy, definitely not stupid and impractical and sexualized for no reason at all.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I mean, how someone could look at something like this, so obviously relevant and important to the lore, and come to the conclusion that it's nothing more than a weak parody of old-fashioned B-fantasy trying to attract teenage boys... It's just... Flabbergasting, truly.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Obviously it's extremely important that all Dark elf women are perfectly attractive to the average 12-18 year old male and that they expose approximately 90% of their body while walking around on the field of battle... For some reason. Obviously there's a reason for it, right? Like an appropriate, sensible lore reason for why they are almost-but-not-quite naked? Definitely. Probably.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It's not like it's a derivative cliche that's become a point of mockery in the fantasy genre or anything.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In fact, I'd say it's empowering to women.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They should really be thankful that a bunch of guys decided to portray them so clearly, empoweringly displaying their sexuality.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There's nothing that says, "I am a legitimate threat that you should take seriously on the battlefield" like a bunch of bikini models running around in bondage gear with daggers and whips.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Because, at the end of the day, isn't that what fantasy is really all about? Cheap cliches, appealing to horny teens, and a tacky, nonsensical aesthetic?

Move out of the way, Tolkien, because fantasy is truly art now. Galadriel? More like Galad-you're basically naked so you sell well. Brienne of Tarth? More like Boobs Boobsingboobs.

Truly, this is the height of fantasy culture.

You could littearly do this with half the unit types in the warhammer universe, the setting practically parodies itself.

Still not a problem though. Its just a fantasy clishe and its been around forever and its not "problematic" unless you go looking to offended. If all girls in warhammer was portrayed like that, id been inclined to agree, but they are not so I still think this topic is stupid.

[sataricon]

Look if every Female in the game is like the Witch Elves then we have a problem but that's not the case.
It gives them flavor and i'm willing to let things slide when it comes to flavor.

And i need to say something When you mentioned Tolkien warhammer is the cheap B movie with lots and lots of cheese unlike Frank Herbert or Tolkien.

Take it for what it is and you don't like it move on.