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Thread: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

  1. #41

    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    ^ I like your idea with the Comanche.

  2. #42
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Steward Denethor II View Post
    ^ I like your idea with the Comanche.
    The good thing about my suggestion is that I already have much of the Comanche culture covered, along with that of the Creeks, as the link that I provided in post #36 indicates. I have far less material for the Apache in particular ATM, so it would take longer to produce something in game for them.

    The unit roster for the Comanche, for example, could build upon the fact that there were five types of people in Comanche land (in order of probable status from low to high): slaves, naturalized Comanches, junior allies, adopted kinfolk, and real Comanches. And the real Comanches had three social classes: junior men, middle class men and senior elite class men. Add warriors engaged in special activities or organizations to that.

    As another example of my thinking about native unit rosters I can paste a portion of my old list for the Sioux below:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    With this faction historically being divided into one forest-dwelling branch in the east (consisting of 4 tribal groups collectively referred to as "Isanyati" (Santee) by themselves), one plains-dwelling branch in the west (1 large tribal group with 7 subgroups - the "Tintatunwan" (Teton)), and a third branch in between (2 tribal groups - the "Wiciyela" (Yankton)), regular infantry units ought to come primarily from the forest-Sioux, possibly in the following manner (in order of strength or quality from less to more corresponding to size in population):

    Wahpekute Outlaws – wearing European hats and vests, buckskin breechcloths, and moccasins, equipped with muskets and pogamoggans?
    Wahpeton Hunters – wearing breechcloths and moccasins, equipped with bows and knives?
    Mdewakanton Clubmen – wearing headbands, European shirts, breechcloths, buckskin leggings and moccasins, equipped with pogamoggans and medium-sized shields?
    Šišeton Spearmen - wearing long leather armour (anti-arrow) jackets, leggings and moccasins, equipped with spears and medium-sized shields?

    In this way, regular cavalry units ought to come primarily from the plains-Sioux. The central branch might be conceived as being pretty good as both infantry and cavalry, but not as good as the forest-Sioux or the plains-Sioux in either fighting mode. This could be translated into a couple of dismountable units (in order of strength or quality from less to more corresponding to size in population):

    Yankton Braves – wearing attenuated leather armour shirts, breechcloths and moccasins, equipped with pogamoggans and small shields?
    Yanktonai Warriors – wearing buckskin shirts, breechcloths, leggings, moccasins and fur hats, equipped with muskets and tomahawks?

    If there's only room for one type of regular unit from each branch of the Sioux, we could perhaps have Santee Warriors, Yankton Fighters and Teton Braves, respectively, instead. Or Dakota Warriors, Nakota Fighters and Lakota Braves, respectively, based on their word for "allies", which was one of their names for the 7 tribes as a whole in the different dialects of the branches (although the legitimacy of the term "nakota" has been questioned). Add various elite units of all types to this lineup, for example, Akicita Guards (camp police or infantry), Wiciška White Tails (cavalry) and Miwatani Tall Ones (dismountable bodyguard).
    As for native technology and building trees, I don't remember anything about what M2TW could provide in this regard, but ETW and its Warpath expansion could serve as a basic blueprint for it. In this way, the "government city buildings" for the Sioux, for example, could be translated into the following:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    1. Magistrate = Head of Extended Family's Lodge or Tipi Wicasa Tokahai Wicoti

    2. Governor's Residence = Chief's LodgeorTipi Itancan Tiospaye

    3.Governor's Mansion = Village/Band Council Lodge or Tipi Iyokiheya (?)

    4. Governor's Palace = Divisional/Tribal Council LodgeorTipi Iyokiheya Oyate (?)

    5. Grand Council Lodge of the Nation/Confederacy or Tipi Iyokiheya Ocetiyotipi Šakowin (?)
    Etc.

    The problem with realistic native unit rosters is that they depend on what modding capabilities we have at our disposal. Novel weapons may not only require novel models of physical objects, but also novel animations etc. So one must first establish the modding capability, then build unit rosters from that, which may be less than ideal from a realistic point of view.
    Last edited by Demokritos; January 08, 2018 at 03:57 PM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  3. #43
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    Those are fantastic ideas Demokritos! For my part, I'm certainly open to replacing those factions, and we even have 1 slot open currently so we might still be able to retain the Apache (thinking of existing vanilla content), but that may not even be necessary/could be re-purposed.

    As far as unit and building names/ideas go, it looks like we are already on much the same page, and the same can be said for what we can achieve in terms of animations and custom content, etc.

    I've replied to your PM, but I'll add here that anyone who wants to contribute to C&E is not bound by any expectations on the part of me and the team. Without wanting to sound too much like a hippy, it's a "mod as you feel" scenario. In the coming weeks I'll hopefully be back on deck and we'll see where everyone else is at as well.

    I'm very interested to see what you think about some of our more "ahistorical" ideas... All mostly means to the end of this mod one day being released.

  4. #44
    Metal.Pigeon's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    I like all of those unit ideas. I haven't actually checked to see how many unit spots we have open, but from what I remember, all of the non-native factions together were about 280-290 (which is a number that is going down as I revise the rosters and take out units that I deem unnecessary), which would leave 210-220 units for the natives, not including ships. There probably won't be too many ships though, at least compared to vanilla.

    I think we're already revamping most of the Kingdoms rosters (from what I've seen from Jaguar Paw, at least; my head was mostly poking around in Europe ), but if we add another faction, I think it should be a North American native one. Or maybe the Kalina (Caribs). Mesoamerica is definitely full enough in my opinion, and I don't think we can squeeze in another South American faction with the way our plans currently are down there.

    In terms of animating, the ones that we are "certain" of are slingers, blowguns, and dogs. There are slinger animations in the Europa Barbarorum II mod, blowgun animations in Colonialism: Total War, and dogs somewhere out there. We don't really have permission from Europa Barbarorum II yet (I don't think we asked), and I can't seem to find any mods out there with the wardogs in them; there was a wardog mod for Medieval II on TWC that gave permission to all to use, but the links are dead. I do know there are some on this site, though...

    Mod leader of One Ruler on Earth | Unit modeler for Colonies & Empires

  5. #45
    Demokritos's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    Honored to become part of the team. Will continue the discussion in the Developers Forum.

    PS: Corrected some terms used describing the Sioux nation above.
    Last edited by Demokritos; January 08, 2018 at 03:58 PM.
    GNOTHI SEAUTON (Know Thyself) - precept inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece
    MEDEN AGAN (Nothing To Excess) - another precept inscribed in the aforementioned place

  6. #46
    saxdude's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    Interesting mod! If I had any suggestion at all It'd probably to maybe limit the faction map to just Mexico and Southern US (From Carolina to Chihuahua perhaps?) for the sake of indepthness, maybe have them be two sub-mods! but whatever choice you end up going with it's still a welcome breath of air!
    Last edited by saxdude; January 13, 2018 at 03:02 PM.

  7. #47
    Frunk's Avatar Form Follows Function
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    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    Hey mate, love the idea of a couple of sub-mods focusing on those areas. Another one I'd like to do is the New England region.

    The plan is to get an ahistorical sandbox mod up and running (since sacrificing history makes things easier and quicker), and then hopefully branch out into historically accurate versions and sub-mods down the track.

  8. #48

    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    ^ Yeah, that is something I'd like to help with once I am a little less busy. I'm not a 'real' modder but I know how a number of the text files work so if learned all the information I could set up various historical campaign starts for the different factions. To be completely historically authentic would probably require half a dozen provenical campaigns at least I wager.

    I'm just wondering, how are the unit stats done in the mod? I think the Real Combat/Real Recruitment system is great but that is something I could probably manage to implement myself.

    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/foru...timate-Edition

  9. #49

    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    What is the advance of the Inca faction?
    Thanks

  10. #50
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    Very interesting project, hope it gets released someday!


    Actually the two things I really miss from Medieval 2 is a colonization total war, and a de-colonization total war*.


    I really like the civilization: colonization expansion, and it translates quite well to Medieval 2 I think. Farms add trade goods, not pop growth. Pop growth is possible only with "irish immigrants" or "spanish immigrants" buildings and similar. These add +0,5% pop growth or so, but also add +1% catholic conversion. Huguenots/english/dutch add protestant, eastern euros add orthodox, ashkenazi quaters add jewish. If you want huge cities, you have to accept everybody, but this will affect public order. As a side affect, this would also balance the natives quite well, since they will not be able to build these.


    Also, the endgame of the colonization game is also very Medieval 2-like: war of independence against a home nation expeditionary force (mongol horde-ish).






    *colonization: establish colonies, late game fight for independence against home country.
    de-colonization: early 16th century. Bengal (muslim), Orissa (hindu), maybe Mughal empire. China, Dai viet, Malacca, Pirates. Late game: Portuguese and Dutch horde.






    You might want to consider releasing a proof of concept. A no-CTD beta, with 1-2-3 factions fleshed out. Don't care if a native faction is unfinished, or has vanilla units, actually CA did the same: just make them unplayable in descr.strat for a while. If a big company can get away with this, you can do that too.
    I think it would also help with balancing the global campaign, and identifying where the AI needs help.


    Good luck!

  11. #51

    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    I hope this is not dead. If Frunk has not worked on the mod in months maybe he should just release it in a pre-alpha state. Port the Late Game Stainless Steel units and just release.

    Even just vanilla factions and units would be a great start. The map is so good.

  12. #52

    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal.Pigeon View Post
    Don't want to reveal too much, but all factions can build navies and hire native (and later, European) mercenaries.

    No longer will Cuba be invincible
    I was going to ask about that. Good. Been playing America’s lately as Spain.

    I don’t think Aztecs should be able to build tall ships but I was thinking, after 1600 mercenary Pirate ships should be available. That would make sense and be the best way to give natives ships, while still making Europeans dominant on the seas.

    Maybe allow American Natives to build a basic port or fishery to retrain them.

    Hope this is released eventually.
    Last edited by Steward Denethor II; December 29, 2020 at 01:44 AM.

  13. #53
    PikEnthusiast's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: [C&E] Questions & Suggestions

    Do you have any ideas/plans for the pirate faction? I saw the Brethren of the Coast faction and was wondering what mechanics or units you'd incorporate into its design.

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