Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Republic of Genoa
It depends mainly on the century we are talking about. The Genoese always loved the galleys and their variants, because traditionally in battle they preferred highly maneuverability: they were masters in fast, precise strikes, and sometimes totally unexpected by the enemy. The galleys were perfect for this type of warfare, because they were fast, The main galleys were of course the galee sottili (thin galleys), but there were used also larger galleys like the bastarde, or the smaller bastardelle. These larger galleys were used mainly as Capitane, or flagships, even more than one in one fleet. The galeotte (called fuste by venetians) were smaller ships, used for reconnaissance, skirmishing and as messagers or transfer. There existed also the category of galee grosse (big galleys), but they were more used for commerce.Originally Posted by Wallachian
The so called round ships (the Nave, or Caracca, or Nao in genoese, and the Cocca and their variants) were mostly used by the merchants. They moved completely with wind and sails, on the contrary to the galleys.
The round ships had strength and weaknesses in respect to the galleys: the weaknesses were, of course, the difficulty in the manouvers and the dependancy from the wind. But the round ships were also advanteged in direct combat with the lower galleys, because the high edge of the hull was a formidable wall that allowed a good defence to the occupants, who could at the same time throw every sort of proectile on the lower ships.
The genoese tried hard to compensate this disadvantage in their galleys, and in fact these were usually higher than other similar ships, and had so advantages of the same nature of the round ships. One exceptional example of this advantage can be found during the siege of Costantinople of 1453. On april 20th, three genoese galleys and one bizantine transport, probably a round ship, resisted for several hours of dead calm against the entire turkish fleet of Balta-oghlu, which was composed by more than 200 ships. The crews managed, at the end to repel every attack and enter in the port of the besieged city: 23 seamen at the end were dead, while we don't know exactly how much hundreds of Turks died or how much ships sunk in the process.
The genoese developments of Nao are specially remarkable, because, later, the Galleon would have taken from it some charachteristic.
The big problem with the galleys is that they were expensive in term of personnel, because they needed a great number of rowers per ship, also in relation to the maximum space on board and the potential cargo, that were quite small. But at the end the problem was in fact the personnel itself: only skilled rowers were able to execute with sufficient precision the manouvers requested in a war scenery, moreover considering the crucial need of coordination with other dozens of ships, and the traditional tactics of movements of the genoese.
Consider that only one galea sottile could require around 200-220 rowers: a fleet of 50 galleys alone would have required 10000 rowers.
It's for this reason that sometimes was hard to find all the men necessaries to man large fleets. For this the Genoese used, in some occasion, also round ships, mainly on the back, to protect from encirclements. Sometimes the presence of the round ships for logistic reasons, or for transportation, more than tacticals'.
Some periods were actually terrible, regarding the possibility of recruit expert seamen, due to various contingencies like epidemies, or infights without end for the power within and out the walls of Genoa.
During the XV century the Communis constitues more and more often fleets composed by greater numbers of Nao, until they sometimes becomes prevalent.
These century is actually the most difficult for the entire city: characterized by the most political instability, the people flee to search for new opportunities -between them there is Columbus, Caboto, and other excellent navigators.
Both are valid options. Maybe between the two My only problem with the heavy shot is that it slow down the reloading process, or I would have suggested it in the first place. For two reasons: first; it's a little silly to slow down a crossbow, when the main problem of the weapon is the rate of fire. Second: it's never officially stated like the training I mentioned before, but it is sometimes hinted that between the XIII and the XIV centuries the balistari were trained also to some sort of "rapid fire", beside the precision one. I didn't mention it before because I wanted to write it in the full post I will write about them (one day or another), and also because I didn't want to spread too much informations.
I also wonder how this thing worked: maybe there were "fire teams" in which when they alterned who shot and who reloaded? Or maybe one only reloaded and one only shot? We can't know for sure, unfortunately. But in some extent this entire rapid-fire thing has to be true, if in 1306 the catalan Raimondo Muntaner stated, writing about the siege of Gallipoli, that "the quantity of bolts shot by the ligurian crossbowmen against the walls of the city was so much that almost darkened the sky". Certainly an epic exaggeration, but still...
I don't really know. Both your proposal are appropriate. And I bet that after this story you are considering also the power Rapid Reload.
For me, I would choose Heavy Shot AND Rapid Reload, to compensate the loss of reload time. But I know that in this manner they would probably OP in gameplay terms. According to what we know, all the options here seem good.
I admit in this case I could be a little sentimental, and impartial. So I give up: choose by yourselves in the name of balanced gameplay.
This is a fair critic, but the terms Lancea, or Lança, appear quite regularly regarding weapons on board of merchant and military galleys, in the inventories of the ships of the Officium Gazarie . They are embarked in good numbers too.
Also, the Genoese Anonymous describe the battle of Laiazzo (1294) in these terms: "Lě fň la gran bataja dura/de le barestre, lance e pree/chi da nona a vespo dura/e cazinna pre galee". Which means: "Then there happened the great battle/ of crossbows, spears and stones/ it lasted from nona to vespers/ and lime was thrown on the galleys".
Now, there is a problem of meaning of the term Lancia in italian, genose and I think most italian languages. Lancia yet means both lance and spear, but sometimes it means also a weapon to be thrown, a javelin.
The lance on the sea has to be excluded: remains the option for the javelin. Since the Anonymous talk mainly about thrown weapons, it would be even more likely. But actually we know an actual javelin, called by his name, used by the jenoese on ships: the Virga Sardisca or simply Virga. So it's likely that these lance are spears.
I don't know tactically what advantage had the spears, but they had some, or they wouldn't have been so popular. Actually I have a couples of theories, but I have to think about it.
You are absolutely right about the use of other melee short weapon, though, because in that department we found ample use by all in the crew of spae (swords, mainly by officers and nobles), rale (according to various versions or sting-knives, or maces similar to the german Godendag, or, for some, another type of javelin), costorel (probably a type of falchion), curtelli da latere (again a type of falchion or a sort of big knife) and ronconi.
We could find a compromise: maybe you could give to the Predoni both spears and melee short weapons for the view, and treat them as a melee unit?
First of all, since the term "cuirass" is the word used to indicate the armors, in a generic manner, I admit that I added the gauntlets by myself.
Thinking well about it I would eliminate the gauntlets, but not for this reason: I would eliminate them because it would probably create issues using a crossbow with them.
But still I think that the gauntlets would be a good idea for a melee unit: after all in combat the hands are the part of the body closest to the enemy, and when they are wounded, it becomes difficult to fight. In a genoese ship the crew was divided in three parts: the actual sailors and rowers, the officiers, and the socii, the military troops. The armed men had only one task, to fight, and they didn't have to do much more, so they didn't need so much dexterity in the battle, at least not of the tyope required to sail a ship. Also most naval battles were fought out of storms, or in other dangerous situation were use the hands is quite useful. Anyway there are exceptions, like the Battle of Bosphorus of 1352.
Absolutely they should be manning a galea alla sensile. The Genoese really loved their military galleys. And in this age the method alla sensile is yet in full use.
I don't pretend anything. When I talk about gameplay mechanics I do it from the point of view of a gamer, and with a historic perspective: I'm not a programmer. For this reason I am so grateful to you, guys, that are doing this amazing mod. All the research I'm doing in these days is nothing compared to your work. Just take these thoughts as they are: free ideas, that you can pick when they work, on the basis of your qualified opinion. I just try to be precise at maximum when I explain them. You don't owe me anything: so you don't "have" to "look further about it". You just "can" if you want. And yet you would do to me a great courtesy.
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