View Poll Results: The AI seems to have a problem in the current version with the high upkeep costs, leading to easy bankruptcy in wartime if they loose important regions or trade routes. What should be done ?

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  • It does not seem to be a problem for me.

    2 20.00%
  • Lower the unit upkeep costs back to normal (currently x2). Larger armies, easy to replenish in war.

    4 40.00%
  • Lower the unit upkeep costs back to normal, and increase recruitment and replenishment cost to compensate. Larger armies, but harder to replenish in war.

    4 40.00%
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Thread: Feedback and suggestions

  1. #21

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Thanks

    -------

    Well, I tried it and got a CTD during a navel battle. I don't recommend it.

    Goutlard, that CTD I had during a naval battle is not the result of the NTW graphics. It happened twice, each time when I attempted to board a ship during a naval battle. Not sure what's making it, but I do know it has to do with your last update. Although, I defer to your better knowledge. I'm not well versed in modding.
    Last edited by Goutlard; January 12, 2018 at 08:12 AM.

  2. #22
    Goutlard's Avatar Janissary
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Do you know which ships were implied in the boarding that led to the CTD ?
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  3. #23

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Galleons.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    I've been ill (39,5°, low blood pressure and everything..) for the last few days.
    So, couldn't look on that issue too much !

    Still, I'm better now so I will soon.
    It is strange, thought, since I didn't edit Galleons at all in a way related to boarding.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Take care of yourself, health is more important. You'll get to it, no rush.

  6. #26
    Goutlard's Avatar Janissary
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Thank you.
    I've investigated that issue, but couldn't find a likely reason for it, nor reproduce it.
    I suppose it is a vanilla bug, most likely not directly related the modifications I did..
    Like a few others (Ottoman buglers don't do any sound, for example, some rare random campaign crashes).


    Quite annoying, can't say I was ever satisfied with CA's policy of rush-finishing games
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    It's okay. For the time being I'll subdue them with cannon fire.

  8. #28
    Goutlard's Avatar Janissary
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Some thoughts for what I may do on the next update :

    Crimean Khanate :
    - Tatar Infantry/ Tatar Yaya (to replace Besli Yaya).
    - Tatar Horsemen/ Tatar Suvari, as a melee alternative !
    - Tatar Noblemen (/Mirza Horsemen), to represent the sipahi-like armored elite of the Crimean Khanate, still fitghting with the Tatar tradition, armored horse archers in the 18th Century.
    - Less generic Ottoman Units

    Ottoman Empire :
    - Better models for the Azab Musketeers
    - Sipahi Horse Archers

    Janissary balance :I consider changing Janissaries quite significantly.
    First, there are two kinds of Janissaries in my mod, but that is not apparent, Yerliye Janissaries and Kapikulu Janissaries (Aga, Cemaat and Sekban).

    Yerliye Janissaries are Janissaries recruited after the reform of 1648, by local landlords and do not go through the rigourous Janissary training.
    Kapikulu Janissaries are the Janissaries recruited trough Devsirme, trained since the age of 5 to warfare.

    I would like to reaffirm their status (Kapikulu Janissaries) as an elite, most Janissary units are fine as elite units, but the Cemaat are somewhat lacking behind. I consider buffing them, especially morale and cost increase.

    Thoughts about how I should balance Janissaries ?


    Janissary Recruitement area : I plan on making kapikulu units (Beylik, Cemaat, Sekban, Usta and Kapikulu Sipahi) recruitable at Anatolia and Rumelia alone, to represent the location of their historical barracks.

    Then, the Cairo Janissaries (Cairo Beylik Janissaries and Cairo Yaya Janissaries) should be recruitable at Egypt, and for the Barbary States at Tripoli.

    Yerliye Janissaries, the provincial Janissaries will be recruitable everywhere.


    Elite units :

    I considered buffing elite units in general slightly. They shine at close quarters combat, however, due to the modifications to the projectile behavior making those more random and more inaccurate, elite units no more have a true advantage in accuracy compared to line infantry. Any thoughts on that matter ?

    Factions :
    - Playable Knights of St John with victory conditions
    - Playable Morroco with victory conditions

    Any other ideas, or suggestions ? An unit you would like added ?
    Since I am not a modeler, my models are limited, but I have many authorizations from past works thankfully. Still, I may not make all models historically accurate unfortunately
    Last edited by Goutlard; April 10, 2017 at 06:54 PM.
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  9. #29

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Hi Sir !

    I am positively impressed by your project. But it seems that your link on moddb is no more good. Do you have an alternative download link ? I tried the turkish TW forum but it didn't work either.

    I will test it and if you wish I will try to give you feedback.


  10. #30
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    The link (http://www.moddb.com/mods/ottoman-to...erhaul-mod-257) seems to function properly for me :o.
    Odd that you have a problem making it work. Maybe the download servers of Mod DB were saturated ?

    I'm uploading the next version right now, should be finished in a few hours anyway. Look out for the version 2.5.8 ! The changelog can be found on the forum page.

    Feedback is most useful for me , so many things to balance in all aspects of the game.
    And, I'm trying to get the Ottomans right, without making them overpowered like most single-faction focused mods out there. Still, I couldn't troughoutly re-balance the factions nor the Ottoman army.

    Especially with that new update, since many new units were added in a confusing mix, I hope I got the balance good enough !

    --

    Mod settings information ; to make those more visible in general :

    Bayonets :
    +4 attack, -6 defense (2 attack has the same effect on performance as 3 points in defense).
    High bonus charge from the bayonet technologies.

    Projectiles :
    Projectile calibration area for missiles : 10
    Projectile calibration area for artillery : 25
    Projectile spread settings : 10 for muskets, 8 for rifles and light muskets
    Base reload time : 10 seconds, if we include the animations it is more like 15-20

    Ammunition :
    Since muskets and firearms are closer to historical accuracy, more ammuntion is needed for most units.
    Indeed they fire at somewhat high rates, and are innacurate, therefore making kills takes a lot of ammunition.

    Musketeers : 15 to 30 ammunition
    Skirmishers & Riflemen : 30 to 45 ammunition
    Archers : up to 32 arrows


    Range : increased to a similar setting as Napoleon : Total War

    Skirmishers and riflemen : +15 accuracy, -15 reload skill

    Health system :
    Infantry health : 2 HP
    Cavalry health : 3 HP
    Armored horseman : 4 HP
    Heavy armored horseman (very few units) : 5 HP

    Firearms do around 1,5 damage ; the game seems to round it to 2 damage when in effective range. Outside of effective range the game rounds it to 1 damage.
    Last edited by Goutlard; April 30, 2017 at 04:42 PM.
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Indeed it works now

    Your work seems important and indeed there is a trap that is not easy to avoid when one is focusing on one faction.

    You are the only Orient focussed mod for empire so it must not be easy.

    I will test this as soon as I can


  12. #32
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    I have for that reason decided to work more other factions. The Ottoman army is complete now, and adding more units would only make it more messy.
    There are also a few units added to France, Spain, Georgia, Poland, Greece (a total of 15 units added to Greece, as well a few of the placeholder ones deleted), the Safavid Dynasty (13 new units, and less of the placeholder units).

    Also a few to Europe.
    The Ottoman Faction did actually pretty badly when left to the AI in the past updates.
    I have experimented on changing the disadvantages given to the Ottomans in the current release, less revolts, more of a morale hit.
    We'll see how it goes !

    I am rather reassured by the fact that if one finds Europe not complete enough, he may use AUM, giving massive numbers of new units to Europe. Personally, however, I don't use it, I don't like turning the unit count into a mess.

    I also have touched upon the accuracy settings, mostly increasing it and making it less random as to make elite units more stand out.
    When projectiles are too random accuracy is indeed realistic, however there is almost no difference between untrained militia and elite units, which should not be the case.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    All right I couldn't test exensively but I had fun already.

    I tested Persia in campaign and so far so good, no problem for now.

    I tested a custom battle with Persia and I had a little bug : my "Qurchi Guards" were not walking. They advanced but they looked like they were sliding through the air.

    I will keep you posted as soon as I find something else.


  14. #34
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    I've tested that out and indeed there's that issue.
    I'll be looking for a fix for it, hopefully with a better model for the Qurchi guards ; making them feel less generic.

    I still want to improve the safavids, since the roster is complete ; however, the Ghulam and Qurchi models are vanilla ones, rather than historically accurate.
    I've improved the Tufangchi in the last update, hopefully their turn shall come next !

    --

    Edit : I'd like your thoughts on the upcoming update. I have further worked on the Safavid Dynasty, and was considering changing their name to "Safavid Dynasty" rather than have the placeholder name of Persia.

    I have added technologies which I listed in [Changelog and Future Updates] that will attempt to show the internal struggles that eventually led to the fall of the Safavid Dynasty, as well as a way to overcome those issues trough a technology that represents an hypothetical reform that could be have been by an able Shah. I am still tweaking them and working on them to find a proper balance.

    Here is the description in Changelog and Future Updates :

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    - Improved Safavid gamemplay :

    Added three technologies to the Safavid Dynasty :

    Pre-researched :

    - Safavid Feudalism :
    It represents the feudal system in the Safavid dynasty, and it's failures. The strenght of the ulema, as well as the many privileges the Qizilbash Turkmen society benefited. The ulema saw the Shahs as illegitimate rulers, and ethnic minorities envied the privileges given to the Qizilbash leading to internal conflits. In the meantime landowners, whom collected taxes kept most of what they collected for themselves and only gave a handful of the profit to the Shah causing economic problems.

    All those conflicts would cause stability issues, and weaken the military of the Safavid Dynasty and lead it to it's eventual fall in 1722.

    To research :

    - Aslahat Reforms :
    Fictious reforms that represents the modernization of the Safavid taxation system, as well as abolition of some privileges. Largely cancels the disadvantages of the Safavid Feudalism technology, but leads to a spike in unrest which risks to cause revolts to represent landowner, ulema-led and Qizilbash revolts.

    - Aslahat Compromises :
    Represents compromises made to pacifiy the Safavid state.


    Basically if you play Persia you will be at the head of a Dynasty two decades from it's fall, and will need to do drastic reforms and face many revolts with a weakened military to save your country. However, if done properly with lowered taxes and decent dissasive military presence at some regions, you may overcome that crisis and be at the dawn of a full-strenght Persian empire.
    Last edited by Goutlard; April 17, 2017 at 03:08 PM.
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  15. #35

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Goutlard View Post
    I've tested that out and indeed there's that issue.
    I'll be looking for a fix for it, hopefully with a better model for the Qurchi guards ; making them feel less generic.

    I still want to improve the safavids, since the roster is complete ; however, the Ghulam and Qurchi models are vanilla ones, rather than historically accurate.
    I've improved the Tufangchi in the last update, hopefully their turn shall come next !

    --

    Edit : I'd like your thoughts on the upcoming update. I have further worked on the Safavid Dynasty, and was considering changing their name to "Safavid Dynasty" rather than have the placeholder name of Persia.

    I have added technologies which I listed in [Changelog and Future Updates] that will attempt to show the internal struggles that eventually led to the fall of the Safavid Dynasty, as well as a way to overcome those issues trough a technology that represents an hypothetical reform that could be have been by an able Shah. I am still tweaking them and working on them to find a proper balance.

    Here is the description in Changelog and Future Updates :

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    - Improved Safavid gamemplay :

    Added three technologies to the Safavid Dynasty :

    Pre-researched :

    - Safavid Feudalism :
    It represents the feudal system in the Safavid dynasty, and it's failures. The strenght of the ulema, as well as the many privileges the Qizilbash Turkmen society benefited. The ulema saw the Shahs as illegitimate rulers, and ethnic minorities envied the privileges given to the Qizilbash leading to internal conflits. In the meantime landowners, whom collected taxes kept most of what they collected for themselves and only gave a handful of the profit to the Shah causing economic problems.

    All those conflicts would cause stability issues, and weaken the military of the Safavid Dynasty and lead it to it's eventual fall in 1722.

    To research :

    - Aslahat Reforms :
    Fictious reforms that represents the modernization of the Safavid taxation system, as well as abolition of some privileges. Largely cancels the disadvantages of the Safavid Feudalism technology, but leads to a spike in unrest which risks to cause revolts to represent landowner, ulema-led and Qizilbash revolts.

    - Aslahat Compromises :
    Represents compromises made to pacifiy the Safavid state.


    Basically if you play Persia you will be at the head of a Dynasty two decades from it's fall, and will need to do drastic reforms and face many revolts with a weakened military to save your country. However, if done properly with lowered taxes and decent dissasive military presence at some regions, you may overcome that crisis and be at the dawn of a full-strenght Persian empire.

    Good idea ! I was precisely considering that "persian" campaign was too easy. All I had to do was ask for alliance with my neighbours and I could develop and become rich in just several years. Your proposition makes it more challenging in a gameplay point of view

    EDIT : as for the historical point of view, I must trust you completely on this. I have very few knowledge of that period. What you did triggered my curiosity and now I want to know a lot more!
    Last edited by Floren d'Asteneuz; April 18, 2017 at 12:24 AM.


  16. #36
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Other than getting the dates wrong (the fall was in 1736 rather than 1722, the later being the beggining of an large-scale afghan revolt that is often seen as the finishing blow given to the Safavid Empire).

    I did something similar for the Ottoman Empire, however the Ottoman Empire was far apart from it's fall and was shortly out of a golden-age-like-period in fact, unlike what the designers at CA thought. In 1683 had come as far as to besiege Vienna and be defeated only by those famous Polish Hussars and incredible fortifications at Vienna (which my family visited a week or so ago ).

    The Ottoman generals present in the game, Silahtar Damat Ali Pasa is known for conquering a large part of what is Don Voisko IG ; and Baltaci Mehmet Pasa for possibly having an affair with the future empress of russia. The early 18th Century was an extremely wealthy era for the Ottomans whom went less and less to war outside, entering the Tulip Era, that of the exaltation of consumption and luxury.

    However the Timar system was getting outdated, and as all major powers of this era the birth of the modern institutional state meant massive new amounts of expanses for the Ottoman Empire, needing new taxes and new sources of revenue. Which is why I gave the player a way to play the Tanzimat Reforms early in the Ottoman Empire, through the Nizam-I Cedit Social reforms.

    Those too lead to short term massive unrest, to represent the likelihood of a Janissary coup, of the Sipahi revolts, and so on (thought I'll have to scale it up in the next update, currently it is not enough), but modernize the Empire on the political level, removing the income penalty caused by the feudal Timar system.

    Current setting :

    Safavid :

    Safavid Feudal System :
    -3 repression in all provinces
    -2 morale to the military (to represent it's decline)
    -1 happiness (clamour for reform) to the lower classes
    lowers tax income
    decreases general productivity
    cheaper army recruitment cost

    Aslahat Reforms :
    -3 repression in all provinces (I chose repression since there's no other way to spread discontent in all cities)
    -2 morale to the military (which opposes those revolts and would most likely spark revolts if the game allowed it)
    +3 happiness (clamour for reform) to the lower classes
    -6 happiness (clamour for reform) to the upper classes
    tax income back to normal
    productivity back to normal
    no more cheaper army recruitment

    Aslahat Compromises :
    +6 repression in all provinces (cancels out the other technologies)
    +4 morale to the military (same)
    -1 happiness to the lower classes
    +5 happiness to the upper classes

    To note : Clamour for reform only influences the capital and the regions with schools.

    Total :
    +1 happiness to lower classes, -1 happiness to upper classes.
    There will be policing necessary in most regions, thought no revolts if kept with a small little garrison (1/2 cheap units).

    However, in the capital, and regions that have schools, revolts will take place. Therefore, it is necessary to garrisson those regions, as well as the school doing the research.

    The military will also be weakened during the revolts, but also cheaper to recruit.

    Ottoman :

    Ottoman Timar System :
    lower tax income
    lower productivity
    lower recruitment cost
    - 2 happiness (clamour for reform) to the lower classes
    - 2 repression
    - 1 morale

    Ottoman Nizam-I Cedit Civil Reforms :
    tax income back to normal
    productivity back to normal
    recruitment cost back to normal
    -3 repression
    -2 morale
    -6 happiness to the upper classes (clamour for reform)
    + 6 happiness to the lower classes (clamour for reform)

    Nizam-I Cedit Social Reforms :
    +3 morale
    +5 repression
    +5 happiness (clamour for reform) to the upper classes
    - 3 happiness (clamour for reform) to the lower classes

    Total :
    + 1 happiness to the lower classes
    - 1 happiness to the upper classes

    Unrest in the regions with a strong religious minority. Likely revolts in Anatolia and less-likely ones in Rumelia.
    The military will also be weakened during the revolts, but also cheaper to recruit.

    Generally the Ottomans are easier to modernize than the Safavids, except for the large numbers of regions to keep in check.
    Last edited by Goutlard; April 18, 2017 at 06:13 AM.
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  17. #37

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Goutlard, what musket cannon sound mods are you using in your mod, if any? And if you're not using any, is there one you would recommend?

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    I use an awesome mod called "Battle Chaos" by Sirlion, originally made for Napoleon : Total War I adapted it to Empire : Total war, as well as custom gunfire effects (you know those flashes in the smoke in the Napoleon/Shogun 2 style, I am quite proud that I made similar ones myself in E:TW ).

    Here is the Battle Chaos mod :
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-your-flights!
    Last edited by Goutlard; April 18, 2017 at 10:01 AM.
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  19. #39

    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    Thanks

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Feedback and suggestions

    I am currently doing some testing on the issue of the AI ending up bankrupt sometimes.
    I'm not sure if it is too common, or not. If lowering upkeep cost would be interesting gameplay wise.
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