Favorite faction in M2TW vanilla during campaign?

[krazyfilmer123]

Heya, i'm new to the forum but not new to m2tw vanilla and kingdoms; i've been playing it for quite a bit

With that aside, i want to here your opinion on what favorite catholic and non-catholic faction you like to play in the Grand Campaign. For me, my favorite catholic faction are the Danes; good starting position and garrisons, plenty of rebel settlements to conquer (stockholm's a good one) and cheap but strong units (ex. norse swordsmen, archers, viking raiders).

My favorite non-catholic faction are the Turks; nice horse archers, plenty of rebel settlements out in the holy lands and perpetual jihad. Another thing i like about this faction are who challenge them; byzantines and the mongols pose a challenge but thats what makes my experience fun, especially when the mongols idiotically charge into the front entrance and get shredded by Saracen Militia in schiltrom formation

your thoughts?

[Matthewcthf]

Heya, i'm new to the forum but not new to m2tw vanilla and kingdoms; i've been playing it for quite a bit

With that aside, i want to here your opinion on what favorite catholic and non-catholic faction you like to play in the Grand Campaign. For me, my favorite catholic faction are the Danes; good starting position and garrisons, plenty of rebel settlements to conquer (stockholm's a good one) and cheap but strong units (ex. norse swordsmen, archers, viking raiders).

My favorite non-catholic faction are the Turks; nice horse archers, plenty of rebel settlements out in the holy lands and perpetual jihad. Another thing i like about this faction are who challenge them; byzantines and the mongols pose a challenge but thats what makes my experience fun, especially when the mongols idiotically charge into the front entrance and get shredded by Saracen Militia in schiltrom formation

your thoughts?

Pixelated Apollo did a lot of research and picked the top ten factions based on units. He goes into detail in a youtube video. Legend Total War is another great player and he shows that if played right any faction can be good. However certain factions are harder to play for obvious reasons. I will tell you my favorite factions after I post some research for you with a short description of each faction. This is vanilla without the expansion.

Pixelated Apollo has the top ten as follows if I remember right:

10: England
9: Hungary (most cost effective unit)
8: France
7: Milan (Genoese Crossbowman are ranked best archer in game, great Italian militia, Pikes)
6: Moors (only non catholic faction, Christian Guard are an amazing unit, Timbuktu one of the richest settlements in the game)
5: Sicily (Norman Knights are great, great Italian militia, Pikes)
4: Holy Roman Empire
3: Portugal (many great units)
2: Venice (Venetian Heavy Guard best infantry unit in game, Italian militia, Pikes)
1: Spain (many great units including Conquistadors, great start for beginners)

Contrary to what everyone says Apollo actually proved Janissary Heavy Infantry and Archers are not very good. Janissary Muskets are.

The Catholic factions clearly have the best units in the game with the exception of the moors and this makes the other factions a lot of fun because they are more challenging. If your a great player like Legend Total War you can play as Poland and take over Russia and just about every rebel faction around Russia and even take Stockholm before the danes within 12 turns. Sounds crazy right? You can actually become a super power within the first 12 turns with a difficult faction and stay that way for the rest of the game. Imagine doing that with say France who has much richer settlements and better units? The AI also are terrible so it's easy to get strong fast which is why I recommend Jack Lusted's AI mod for both campaign and battles.

My favorite factions are Poland, The Moors, France and all of the Italian factions. Having lot's of rebel settlements next to me is nice but having great units can make up for the lack of rebel settlements starting out. For example in one game I was Venice and the AI attacked me like 20 times within the first 15 turns from multiple factions. (before I had the AI mod) I was able to use Italian Spear Militia and form a v at the main gate of each city they attacked and won every time even when I was out numbered.

The Moors and why they are so great:

The Moors have an excellent starting position and it's just to easy with a Jihad to attack Portugal or Toledo and take it within a few turns making you a super power very early. You have great units such as Camel Gunners and Urban Militia and your Christian Guard is amazing. One of the best units in the game.

Timbuktu and Arguin give you a total of 3 Gold mines and other trade resources. With Merchants you can easily get more than 3,000 Merchant trade every turn. Put a fort on a Gold mine and spam it with Merchants and it's even better. Timbuktu is probably the best resource province in the entire game. Just be sure to watch for Sicily or a christian crusade. Other than that you should have no problem in the game once you take the Iberian Peninsula which is very easy. Don't forget to hire assassins. Spam these early and keep killing stuff until you get offered the Hashishim guild. They give you an excellent infantry unit.

Poland and why they are so easy to play:

Poland is one of the more difficult factions to play as if you don't know what you are doing. There settlements are poor and take awhile to build up so coin is not so good and Poland has weak infantry units in the early game. Poland has excellent Calvary but you have to build up your economy first before you can use them. You will also enter a war with Russia. It will happen no matter what you do so don't wait and attack Russia while they are weak.

First send an army to take Thorn from your capital. If Possible use your spy to open the gates. Then hire a mercenary cog and sail to Stockholm. It will be a village so it will be easy to take. If you do this right you can claim Stockholm on turn 2 or 3. Next sail the same army to Riga. Riga is another Village and an easy take. The army you start out with at Halych needs to get some mercenary's and head strait for Kiev on turn one. Kiev opens up trade in the southern factions and allows for a port. The sooner you take it the faster you can built it up providing you with extra coin every turn. Caffa to the south is easy for the taking as it's just a village. As soon as you can declare a crusade on Antioch or Jerusalem. Now send your crusading armies to wipe out Russia. They will be easy to defeat. With the AI mod they will have a full stack in defence but it's just malita so it will be easy to defeat. By turn 20 you should have every Russian provence and Stockholm and Oslo north of the Danes. Now tech up to the better unit's.

France has amazing units and rich provinces:

France has a great starting location. Many rebel settlements to take quick and once you start building up your economy you can get rich with coin quick. French Scots Guard are an amazing archer unit that even out performs the English archers. Scots guard can even fight melee with their high defence such as taking castle walls or holding battle lines. Aventurier are in the top 5 archers in the game and france has ood calvary and good infantry such as dismounted and mounted feudal knights. It's also easy to rush England and hold fronts against the HRE, Milan and Spain.

The Italian Factions and why they are so amazing:

The Italian factions have great malita so you don't even need castles. Plus they get free upkeep. They also have Pike militia and each faction has a great unit. Genoese Crossbowman, Norman Knights and Venetian Heavy Infantry. To further add to that all three factions has the rich Italian provinces to give them a lot of coin and great navies. Venice starts out with a great navy. It is very easy to defend cities and castles with the great units at their disposal.

The Hardest factions in the game and why:

The hardest factions to play as in the game are the Turks, Russians, Byzantines, Egyptians and Scotland.

The Byzantines would probably be number one due to Crusades, Jihads, The Mongols and the Timurids all of which like to attack the rich city of Constantinople. Two of the best settlements starting out are Antioch and Constantinople. The Byzantines can't call crusades and also miss out on most of the gunpowder units. They do have a top ten unit and that is the Varangian Guard but that and a amazing city are not enough to overcome the problems the byzantines has. I suggest you go west and hit the Turks ASAP. You should be able to take Iconium early and negotiate a peace treaty claiming a few more cities from them in the process. Watch out for Hungary and Venice who will want to attack you. Even Sicily or the Pope may attack you. Your enemies will be just about everyone. If you hit the turks early then go for Antioch and you should be ok until the Mongols invade. That is unless you lose Constantinople to a crusade or jihad.

The Turks are one of the most popular islamic factions. I'm not sure why. They have descent horse archers and some great late game units. (Muskets and Qapukulu) However they will almost always be invaded by the Mongols and if you rush the Byzantines and take Constantinople early with a jihad be prepared to defend it against many crusading armies. If you rush the Byzantines early with a jihad you can usually weaken them early and have a easier early game. The turks will have to rely on Turkish archers and horse archers early on as their melee infantry early on is terrible. Pitch battles is a must. The Byzantines also get descent horse archers so watch out for them.

The Russians have to expand quickly and they can't stop. They need every province they can get ASAP or Poland and Hungary will get strong fast and be difficult to eliminate later in the game. Russia has great cavalry and muskets but the infantry is not so great with the exception of maybe one or two units. I suggest heading east to block Poland from taking Riga and you will also want to head south and take Kiev but you could wait on that until after Vilnius and Smolensk has been taken. Kiev is great for economy. A war with Poland will happen no matter what you do so don't wait for them to get strong before you attack them. Sometimes the Mongols, Timurids or even the Turks will attack from the west so be ready for them if needed.

The Egyptians have a great start and with an early Jihad they can take a lot of rebel settlements quick. Their units are not the best but they have some good units such as Mamluks, Desert Archers and Tabardariyya. Be ready for many crusading armies and the Mongol Hordes. Egypt's unit roster is not great so try defeating these armies inside your cities and castles. Merchants in Constantinople or Baghdad could provide nice coin on Silk resources.

Scotland is so bad because they don't have a lot of tech. A limited number of buildings and units make them weak and the good pike units they do get may be bugged. Still you can take out England and have a good defensible position on the map.

The other factions has pros and cones. Portugal and Spain are great and don't really have any cons. They also have good naval ships allowing them to sail to the Aztecs and America's. Portugal and Spain have amazing units putting them in the top 5 factions in the game with spain at number 1. The HRE can be hard because they tend to have many enemies but they start out powerful and have great units. Once you learn how the AI fight battles the HRE should be easy to play as. The Danes have a great starting position and if they take Hamburg they can hold off the HRE. They have some ok units and some good calvary. I suggest being very aggressive with them. Don't let the sea stop you from expanding. You can attack anywhere in the north including England, Scotland, Poland or Russia and you have many options. Hungary has the battlefield Assassins with 2 hit points and I think it was the Hungarian Nobles that was the most cost effective unit in the game but I could be wrong. They also have descent spearman. Hungary can rush the Byzantines and take Constantinople early in the game and has several rebel provinces nearby for the taking. Hungary is a great faction to play as and can also crusade.

I hope that helps you out. If you want a top ten for infantry, cavalry, archers or the factions check out Pixelated Apollo youtube videos (Apollo also has a campaign of the Turks) and Legend Total War's hotseat video of Poland or single player campaign of France can really open your eyes to thins that can really help improve your gameplay such as using lot's of spies or using forts to block armies. The game is really easy once you know what you are doing.

For economy always go for roads and land clearance early. Land clearance improves your population allowing your towns and castles to upgrade faster thus giving you better tech and units. Roads are good for trade and allows your armies to move around faster. Ports and warehouses are also great for coin.

[krazyfilmer123]

Thanks for your long reply to my thread. I would just like to give my experiences with what i had with some of the factions i played and compare it to your reply.

As for the Turks (in which i completed the Turks long campaign in 93 turns on hard mode) I have in fact jihaded Constantinople, however, I have not faced any crusades due to the fact that I have sent a diplomat to Rome to give tributes to the papal states and appease them so the Pope doesn't call a crusade on my people. I do this with every muslim faction i play, including Moors and Egypt (in the case of the Egyptians, I ally with the pope because crusades on Cairo are a pain the arse).

I would also like to comment on how pitch battles are a "must" for Turks. I can agree to this in most cases, since horse archers will need alot of area to cover as do alot of cavalry, however I would outright never engage in pitch battles with the Mongols. For me, engaging in field battles with Mongols is dangerous as they have larger garrisons which are mostly composed of superior horse archers and cavalry. As i implied with "idiotic Mongols charging through the front entrance into Saracen Militia", I only engage with Mongols during siege battles, since their cavalry cannot cover much space inside cities/castles and can easily be shredded by spearmen in schiltrom or halberds in spearwall

For the Moors (in which i am still playing the long campaign, but i'm almost finished) I agree with the fact that they are a great faction; in fact they are my 2nd favorite non-catholic faction before Turks. Conquering the Iberia is quite easy for me and Timbuktu way down south along with Arguin are definitely good ca$h c0ws. Dongola is a decent one too because of ivory and slave trade, although this relates more to Egypt (and Turks for me as i conquered all of Egypt's land).

As for the Danes (again, which i am still playing in the hard mode long camp. and almost done with) I have in fact already done what you stated about aggression. Why waste an opportunity for invasion when Denmark have a great starting position anyway? Currently, my Danish campaign is going good, as I have 4 allies, 4 enemies and 1 vassal (which is Poland). Early on in the game, I expanded down South and into parts of western and eastern europe. I declared war on Poland back then i made allies with Russia who was also at war with Poland. By the time they made a truce with me, we stopped fighting till about 30 turns later when they came to attack me for revenge, and in return I brought them down to one settlement and made them a vassal by scaring them with a huge army stack beside Krakow (their last city).

The Danes campaign is what i'm currently focused on right now, and i'm currently allies with the Turks, Russia, Papal States and Hungary (including Poland which is under my rule). I'm currently at war with Milan (who betrayed me after a marriage alliance), the Holy Roman Empire, Egypt and the Mongols (i have no need to worry about them however; I have destroyed them in a siege battle using Crusader Knights in schiltrom formation, so all the Mongol army stacks recently focked off into the desert).

Again, thoughts and comments?

[Matthewcthf]

You really know what you are doing. Great Job. I only would suggest pitch battles with the turks in the early era and never against the Mongols and Timurids. I would fight them on bridges or in my cities and castles. I did forget to mention England but then they don't need a mention really. Just blitz Scotland in the first 5 turns and you will be ok but you probably know that already.

I am wondering if you are playing with Jack Lusted's AI mod? It greatly improves the campaign and battle AI and is easy to install. I recently posted a download link for it in this section but I think it was moved to the guide section along with my easy install instructions.

The AI in the mod can be somewhat passive but tend to build many full stacked armies with good units and also block routes with forts. Allies actually stay allies if you do diplomacy right and in battles the ai actually has cavalry on their flanks. I have edited my folder to provide ai with more coin and make some factions hate each other to increase the chance of them fighting such as England and Scotland.

Sounds like your having fun with the Danes. Apollo does give an honorable mention to Norse War Clerics which is a good unit. I am currently playing as Poland and loving it. They have Polish knights/guard which is the number 2 ranked calvary in the game by Apollo and the dismounted Polish knights are also really good. I control a lot of territory and the Mongols invaded the Turks and Egypt. It will be fun to fight them later. For my next game I want to try Hungary as they are awesome and I have not played as them in a long time. I have played as every faction in the game but I only tried Scotland once so I will have to give them another chance sometime.

[krazyfilmer123]

Thanksy, and no, I haven't tried the Lusted AI mod. It would be interesting to try it out, but i would also certainly miss the AI acting so stupid even on very hard difficulty

[emcdunna]

Play as england, 6 - 8 longbows per army, deploy stakes, machine gun everyone who comes close

Yeah the reason i love M2TW is because I like that it focuses on big factions and leaves out the small ones. In R2, Attila, and warhammer, i feel like i am always fighting some random no name mini faction and the cool factions like sparta and carthage are always pathetic or destroyed before i even see them.

Also, the factions have a ton of diversity and it truly feels like the game is decently balanced.

My other favorite is the Danes, I love all of the axe infantry, which is CHEAP (upkeep wise compared to things like dismounted feudal knights), and i like using the huscarl cavalry over normal knight units.

Also, I found Egypt relatively easy to play as simply because you are SURROUNDED by rebels. you can easily take 10+ settlements before you even reach a major faction. Just either bum rush north to take all of turkey, or bum rush west to take north africa.

As far as units go, you really only need a few decent unit types in an army. Like as egypt, all i use is the basic archer, the saracen militia, tabardariyya, and mamluks. 4 units. As england, pretty much just the regular longbows (the more elite units feel weaker to me for some reason), the foot swordsmen, and some knights. As danes, just huscarls, norse archers, and a mix of the heavy infantry is also fine.

Like you guys were saying, the ai isnt super hard even on VH, but that doesnt mean the game isnt fun. I like watching 20 units suicide rush my gates while 2 spear units cut them down (and if you have boiling oil, its even faster and funnier)

[krazyfilmer123]

update

heres a I recorded of my danish campaign of what i've said about the crusader sergeants slaughtering a bunch of mongols:



(i recorded this a earlier in the week where I completed this campaign a few days later)

[River Lord]

Turks in overall. Probably the best location at start(yea, Mongols ruin it) Too many advanced rebel cities and you can turn into superpower in short time. Also, horse archer power is something serious. And in late game their infantry force becoming insane. Janissaries(Musket, Halberd, Archer) are great. Qapukulu probably one of the best cav in game. In hand to hand combat, very few have chance against them. And those huge, wall-eater cannons...

For European, Hungary is my favourite. Good mix of units plus horse archers. And historical reasons

[Bóramha]

Definitely agree with the Danes, good mix of infantry, decent cavalry and a very easy position on the map. Expansion wise I usually conquer Scandinavia and northern Germany and then move to Britain and Ireland. After taking those you'll be left with a fairly stable economy and good defensive position, making that plunge into central Europe very easy.

After that I like Spain and Venice, especially when playing the campaign.

Hard to pick a least favourite because there are quite a few factions like Russia that are awful in the campaign.

[Matthewcthf]

I think the Turks are actually the easiest faction as Legend Total War beat the game with them in less than 10 turns.

I am currently playing as the HRE and by turn 20 I had a huge empire and I had defeated Scotland, France and Sicily without the pope excommunicating me.