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Thread: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

  1. #561
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Irrelevant, it's true, and what really matters, Sweden have requested official explanation of Trump's fake news (the terrorist attack claims).
    -----
    Geronimo2006

    Reality check,Romania promised to take in 6,205 refugees over the next two years.
    Btw, the European quota system agreed in 2015 isn't a "massive migration", sharing 120,000 refugees between the EU countries.

    -----

    Protesters in Barcelona urge Spain to take in more refugees. Well done, Barcelona!


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  2. #562

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    No one can potentially be promoted to Sainthood due to importing Muslims en mass if you get what I mean...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, you are not Ludicus, and that's a blatant lie.
    Portugal já recebeu mais de 700 refugiados (140 left the country, they are not prisoners -EU court backs refugees' free movement, in most cases)
    Even being nice and not disputing anything of what you imply, or not disputing your numbers, I hope you realize 560 refugees is a joke number compared to the challenges that North Europe/Central Europe have to face?
    Last edited by fkizz; February 19, 2017 at 08:39 PM.
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  3. #563
    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Praetorio
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Remember when during the campaign, all the old man Donald supporters got told that the Muslim ban would be unconstitutional and be struck down by American courts, and they didn't accept it?

    I remember.

  4. #564
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    49 of 50 states determined it was legal. Washington and the 9th Circuit are just being idiotic.

    It's a stupid plan and it was executed moronically but its legal. The president has the power to bar foreigners from entering the US on any grounds.
    The Earth is inhabited by billions of idiots.
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  5. #565
    Maiar93's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    So the president is a dictator with ultimate authority on everything, but only if he really wants to be and throws temper tantrums every which way? GG democracy
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  6. #566
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Maiar93 View Post
    So the president is a dictator with ultimate authority on everything, but only if he really wants to be and throws temper tantrums every which way? GG democracy
    Short of new legislation, the president is the ultimate authority on who may and who may not enter the United States. Congress gave him that power. They have not taken it away. The courts are wrong.
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  7. #567

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Short of new legislation, the president is the ultimate authority on who may and who may not enter the United States. Congress gave him that power. They have not taken it away. The courts are wrong.
    If it were that simple they wouldn't have gotten in trouble over green card holders. Hell if it were that simple there wouldn't be that much of a career for immigration lawyers that spend careers specializing in this because there's, you know, one line for immigration law, you know? Thing of it is, when they pissed their Order down onto paper and went "President has ultimate authority!" They forgot one thing, everybody granted permanent residence is not about a visa anymore and they have rights. Like a day in court. Where the courts can literally ask the President what the frak he was smoking when he signed the damn thing. Or if he even read it if he'd like to claim he wasn't high.

    You, sir, simplify things. And based on what we witnessed happen, based on their piss poor attempt at damage control, based on, well, everything, you should damn well know it.
    Last edited by Gaidin; February 20, 2017 at 09:37 AM.
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  8. #568
    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Praetorio
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    the 9th Circuit are just being idiotic.
    That's convenient! Reality check: the whole thing got smashed by the judiciary literally in a day.

  9. #569

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    49 of 50 states determined it was legal. Washington and the 9th Circuit are just being idiotic.

    It's a stupid plan and it was executed moronically but its legal. The president has the power to bar foreigners from entering the US on any grounds.
    Was there simultaneous court cases in every state where 49 of them determined the law to be legal?
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  10. #570
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    I hope you realize 560 refugees is a joke number compared to the challenges that North Europe/Central Europe have to face?
    (I hope your realize we are willing to accept 10,000). I hope you realize the fascistoid Hungary refuses to take refugees. Btw, Sweden threatens legal action againt Hungary
    [The] Commission has to ensure governments stick to agreements,' says migration minister
    fkizz
    No one can potentially be promoted to Sainthood due to importing Muslims en mass if you get what I mean...
    No, I don't get what you mean by that. There is no "mass importation of Muslims". There are refugees quotas, that's it.
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  11. #571

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Was there simultaneous court cases in every state where 49 of them determined the law to be legal?
    47, by the way, if we assume just presumption of straight legality across them all. Minnesota was in on the case from the start and Hawaii was butting in, but couldn't in time before the courts shut the case down after the Administration announced its intent to rewrite the EO.

    And no, there wasn't simultaneous court cases in every state. There might have been one or two in others that disagreed with it, I'd have to look it up(and by 'look it up' i mean 'gawd deep search' because the washington case was god damn famous as to interfere with a search for anything else), and the interpretation in their respective districts could've hilariously varied based on the judges they got.
    Last edited by Gaidin; February 20, 2017 at 11:39 AM.
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  12. #572

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Looks as if the travel ban has inspired some domestic terrorism. Trump seems to be silent on these murders. Can't imagine why......A terrorist attack on US soil, and yet Trump had time to comment on non-existent events in Sweden and not this.


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7599736.html
    Last edited by mongrel; February 25, 2017 at 06:10 PM.
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  13. #573
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I hope you realize the fascistoid Hungary refuses to take refugees. Btw, Sweden threatens legal action againt Hungary
    Let me fix that.
    Hungary refuses to take back refugees from Sweden.
    There you go.
    See? No its not fake news.

  14. #574
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    I think Hungary decided to make an exception for Christian refugees though, right?

  15. #575
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Not an exception.
    Asylum seekers are being queued. Vulnerable people have priority, like children (the real ones, not the already balding bearded "children"), women, the elderly, sick people, whole families, Yazidis and of course Christians, since Christians are the most persecuted religious group in the world.

  16. #576
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    .Hungary refuses to take back refugees from Sweden.
    Hungary has already refused to accept 1,294 asylum seekers requested by the European Commission. (Hungary's Migrant quota)
    What Does Hungary's Migrant Quotas Referendum Mean for Europe

    --------
    News, without comments,

    Full DHS intelligence report on threats posed by nations on Trump's Travel Ban


    citizenship is an "unlikely indicator" of terrorism threats to the United States
    --

    Trump ordered a US intelligence report to justify his travel ban

    A senior administration official told the Wall Street Journal, “This is not the intelligence assessment the president asked for.”



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    ...Yet, the voluble president hasn’t uttered a word on the shooting in Kansas that killed 32-year-old Indian techie Srinivas Kuchibhotla and injured two others. Kuchibhotla and his colleague, Alok Madasani, were grabbing a beer at a bar in Olathe when they were attacked by 51-year-old Adam Purinton, who apparently mistook them for Middle Eastern men. Ian Grillot, a patron who tried to intervene, was seriously injured.
    “Get out of my country,” Purinton allegedly shouted, before opening fire.
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  17. #577
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Trump signs new, more limited ban

    Doesn't affect visa holders, doesn't include Iraq

    This one might actually have a chance to survive but it's still useless posturing that actually makes America less safe.
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  18. #578

    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    (I hope your realize we are willing to accept 10,000). I hope you realize the fascistoid Hungary refuses to take refugees. Btw, Sweden threatens legal action againt Hungary


    fkizz

    No, I don't get what you mean by that. There is no "mass importation of Muslims". There are refugees quotas, that's it.
    Last week we recieved 30 Yazidi families up there in Guimarães. Not Muslims.

  19. #579
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    Trump signs new, more limited ban

    Doesn't affect visa holders, doesn't include Iraq

    This one might actually have a chance to survive but it's still useless posturing that actually makes America less safe.
    The funniest part is it took 30 days to implement a 90 day ban. It's a publicity stunt. What is the point?

  20. #580
    Elfdude's Avatar The Blue Spirit
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    Default Re: Donald Trump's Immigration and Refugee Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    49 of 50 states determined it was legal.
    WOAH. 49 STATE COURTS RULED IN FAVOR OF IT? Oh wait no, not a single one did. Alternative facts?



    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Washington and the 9th Circuit are just being idiotic.
    lol. There were far more lawsuits than that, that was the one which got the furthest the fastest. There were lawsuits from every major city and state across the country which would've escalated if not for the ruling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    It's a stupid plan and it was executed moronically but its legal.
    3 Central reasons it's illegal, banning muslims, banning green-card holders, no grounds to demonstrate threat.

    1. The fact it was sold to the public as a muslim ban will always be an issue for trump's administration when it comes to defending the law, even the new version of it, specifically judicial review allows the use of public statements about a particular piece of legislation to gauge the intent behind the law, the law can be invalidated due to intent alone. US law recognizes both the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. The reason the higher courts are involved is because this legislation violates numerous tennets when it comes to the spirit. This is why it's critical to read the exhaustive opinions of judges about their rulings, in particular this ruling will explain to you further why not only is the intent of the law being looked at but why the analysis of it isn't the same as someone's opinion but rather based on logical dissection using legal philosophy.

    2. Green card bans was a stupid thing for Trump to try to do, and he probably never intended to do it but this gave any judicial action against it teeth, even if higher courts disputed the first point they could not dispute the problem of the second point.

    3. Clear and necessary threat. The courts have ruled that the president although he does have the power to restrict travel from certain countries must be able to demonstrate through a preponderance of reasonable evidence that such a threat is present. This was particularly due to the trump's defense lawyers utterly failing in the court hearings to provide any sort of evidence that the stated goal of these bans was accomplished in any such way through the law. In particular none of the countries featured are hotbeds of terrorism and many countries which were were left off the list. When questioned Trump's defense deflected the question claiming that it's the president's sole perogative to determine who and which countries he approves of for whatever reason he determines to be salient. The courts ruled that this was not even remotely the case and specified that the judicial review process exists for precisely this reason. The letter of the law may indeed give him that power but the court does not recognize that the law was written with arbitrary intent in mind. In specifics the courts do not consider the US to be an authoritarian country where any branch of government can arbitrarily enforce its will but rather a country founded upon checks and balances. In short the courts ruled that there was an invisible caveat to the use of these powers necessitating sound judgement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    The president has the power to bar foreigners from entering the US on any grounds.
    No he doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Short of new legislation, the president is the ultimate authority on who may and who may not enter the United States. Congress gave him that power. They have not taken it away. The courts are wrong.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

    No it doesn't, it specifically requires a justifiable reason. National security is Trump's cited reasoning, judicial review found that reason to be invalid thus he does not have the power. It's quite simple.
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