[SUBMOD: a Slower Paced DeI Campaign] TESTUDO v.1.7 + Custom Packs [upd: aug.09/20] - OUTDATED

[Jake Armitage]

just slight bonuses, +2 to PO and +5% to various incomes, you can use it with any TURTLE_pack and add/remove it whenever you want

[milt]

The (sub) mod is playing fantastic in a 4 turn Rome game. Let me know if there is any specific feed back I can give to help you. Only bug I've seen has been a mostly invisible garrison unit in battle. It still fought fine.

Other than that, I just want to say superb work. Carthage AI is fantastic, and it's truly challenging. I'm trying to over extend it with the help of the Iberians, while not overextending myself. It's got me checked in terms of actually attacking for now and I'm probably close to 150 turns in.

Thank you!

[Jake Armitage]

Thanks milt.
Yeah you're right, I forgot to link textures to all RPGu units... I'll correct this. Luckilly they aren't very much used into actual battles.

Until you find the gameplay satisfying, I would say there is nothing to report... just let me know if you find the game too easy/difficult or too slow/quick regarding any particular feature.
So, you're playing 4tpy Medium? Any Turtle pack or the slightly easier pack?
Would you mind sending me your last savegame so I can have a look?

[milt]

Thanks milt.
Yeah you're right, I forgot to link textures to all RPGu units... I'll correct this. Luckilly they aren't very much used into actual battles.


Until you find the gameplay satisfying, I would say there is nothing to report... just let me know if you find the game too easy/difficult or too slow/quick regarding any particular feature.
So, you're playing 4tpy Medium? Any Turtle pack or the slightly easier pack?
Would you mind sending me your last savegame so I can have a look?

I'm enjoying the difficulty thoroughly. Carthage has finally started refocusing west, but I can't expand until I've got control over my provinces. I'm a little nervous they'll start to regain too much in Spain if I don't attack soon, then come even harder at me. After grabbing Cisalpine Gaul I'm in a defensive crouch surrounded by unfriendlies, but only at war with Cartage, etc fortunately.


I'd say I'm struggling some with understanding the mechanics.
I don't know why the Plebs control over half the Senate, when the Equites seem to have better gravitas/ambition combos. Could overuse of the civil governance mission cause this Pleb increase? Also is it weighted negative on average results?


I also made a mistake making a good Nobiles character an admiral, as he's not gaining experience on patrol, also reduced gravitas. Navies gain experience at port, but not at seas. 12 of my allowed 16 leaders are being spent on only civil governing. It would have been better to have that even higher towards governance. Attach more spies and veterans for more bonuses. Seems like a lot of maxing the micro.


I'm hoping to better understand the mechanics, but may needs some turtle easy packs in time if I don't. For now, good difficulty. Any tips based on the save or otherwise are welcome.


Thanks!


P.S. Another interesting aspect was seeing Macedonia do really well early, but then collapse. I have no idea how they got Cyprus, but it felt like they should have been able to take their enemies after taking lands I thought they couldn't. Now Epirus is repeat their expansion path.

[Jake Armitage]

After grabbing Cisalpine Gaul I'm in a defensive crouch surrounded by unfriendlies, but only at war with Cartage, etc fortunately
yeah, pay attention they will probably declare war sooner or later. When I play Rome and want to go south for carthage, I always keep quite good relations (or liberate) with northern alps/cisalpina, otherwise you'll have really hard times

I don't know why the Plebs control over half the Senate, when the Equites seem to have better gravitas/ambition combos. Could overuse of the civil governance mission cause this Pleb increase? Also is it weighted negative on average results?
The only things affecting political power (>senators) are the power effects/incidents and the gravitas. Civil governance mission does not make any party stronger by default, but it will give +5 gravitas to the actor, so if you always do it with the same person then he'll have much gravitas which will influence the power. Mostly during first turns where gravitas is low and so more affected by a +5.
You'll have to play wisely with it, as soon as you see a party too strong or too weak, use the DECREASE POLITICAL POWER or INCREASE POLITICIAN GRAVITAS intrigues. Make some trials and you'll understand how they work.
Even at turns over 200 I'm able to have 3% difference at max between others parties values. There is also SPREAD POLITICAL POWER andGATHER POLITICAL POWER which may come in handy, if needed.
The only thing you have to worry about power, are these 2:
1) the ruling party power (have it at good levels depending on your government)
2) pay attention if one of the other party has too much power, 'cause it will have higher probability to take control over some provinces and so being more powerful in case of secession/civil war

I also made a mistake making a good Nobiles character an admiral, as he's not gaining experience on patrol, also reduced gravitas. Navies gain experience at port, but not at seas. 12 of my allowed 16 leaders are being spent on only civil governing. It would have been better to have that even higher towards governance. Attach more spies and veterans for more bonuses. Seems like a lot of maxing the micro.
I don't bother much with navies... but consider the level into which the RPGu units are is quite primitive and I have to work a lot on them still. In future effects will be given by special units instead of the BG itself

Another interesting aspect was seeing Macedonia do really well early, but then collapse. I have no idea how they got Cyprus, but it felt like they should have been able to take their enemies after taking lands I thought they couldn't. Now Epirus is repeat their expansion path.
Well, this is part of the game... Sometimes a faction dies really early, sometimes it conquers a lot, sometimes it sails for nowhere... there isn't much anyone can do (besides writing tons of long scripts)
Just consider that every campaign is a sort of parallel universe where things happen...
In one of my recent roman campaigns macedon was able to conquer all greece and was by best ally.

I'm hoping to better understand the mechanics, but may needs some turtle easy packs in time if I don't. For now, good difficulty. Any tips based on the save or otherwise are welcome.
Mechanich could be rather though with the first campaign, there are a lot of modded features.
Check Testudo, PIGS and RPGu thread to have an overall understanding of them.
Regarding gameplay I would say the best way to understand it is through playing. Games that let you learn from your mistakes are the best games

I'll check your savegame tomorrow, thx for uploading it

[milt]

Working on getting friendlies/allies to the North. Only one province to go. Then I can hit Carthage. I'm nervous they'll target Genoa as they did when I first conquered it, but they haven't.

Those two intrigues are helping stabilize Senate influence. I still think the Plebs are getting an irrational amount of Senators, or rather there is some hardcoded mechanic to help them if you're PIGs system isn't doing it. There is no reason based on what I see that the Plebs should be stronger than the other party, but they aren't just strong, instead ultra dominant. Going to work on only allowing them level one leaders, hopefully stealing their good ones going forward. It's realistic needing to fight hard against the Pleb influence.

Agree, I'd probably be better of without admirals against Carthage. I'm simply outclassed. But I have used it to stop some of their raiding. They refocused on me, so I'd I had to beat off at least 4 2 stack invasions in Sicily. I've got a great army defending it and it's turning into the same battle over and over. There cavalry are disembarked land by themselves at the start of each battle, I can wipe them, then deal with the infantry. Battles aren't really close now that I've got the strategy down.

[Jake Armitage]

Your campaign seems pretty good and well balanced.

Regarding the influence, honestly, I've never married anyone ofthe other parties, wifes are useless in my opininon.
I would advice to have less characters, the more they are, the less is easier to control power 'cause gravitas will come from too many palce to actually control it.
You have also too many fleets in my opinion, quite useless too, you know that garrisoned fleets will reduce PO?

I've seen you had to build quite a lot of farms, maybe it would be better to give some more hidden food.

[milt]

Your campaign seems pretty good and well balanced. Regarding the influence, honestly, I've never married anyone ofthe other parties, wifes are useless in my opininon. I would advice to have less characters, the more they are, the less is easier to control power 'cause gravitas will come from too many palce to actually control it. You have also too many fleets in my opinion, quite useless too, you know that garrisoned fleets will reduce PO? I've seen you had to build quite a lot of farms, maybe it would be better to give some more hidden food.

Each of the wives gives some bonuses. So in my game it's at least 8% empire cost reduction. My libraries+ generate research ancillaries. I'm probably getting another 50% base or more right now with wives.
Your bonuses are half strength compared to regular DEI, but they still add. I'm balancing the parties influence well now after using those intrigues. Also it seems like that made the intrigue results less negative. Maybe just seems.


Each of the fleets gains experience (I think 1 per turn), so they become extra governers. I think this may be contributing to my food problem though. But in time they can generate more food than they cost. I don't think the give any penalties unless they have ships attached. Without all these charachters, I think I'd be under water. Some times I have them die in bunches, and it takes time for income and order to recover again. I use surplus wives to get free very young leaders to repeat the process.

It may be better to remove all these bonuses though, and just play on a bit easier level. Lots of micro, if I manage it efficeintly.

I'm having to build farms and grain pits. As I need food and can't handle more disorders, so no cattle. I'm hoping I've got enough food to handle all the level 4 capitols coming online. I think I do. It's hard to stay even as is, let alone expand.

But I'm slowly advancing towards Carthage. I think I can take it once I build a Tyrrenian fleet. I'm scared to send my armies accross without good naval escorts. They've got 4 fleets and 3 armies hanging out. I can probably shirnk their fleets with 2, but with 1 I'm hopeless and trapped in the Adriatic.

It's a well balanced game. Thank you!

[bthizle1]

First, fantastic work mate.

I'm on turn 40 or so playing as Carthage, I started one campaign with medium.pak then started another on small.pak to get used to it. So far only one bug noticed, that the special general units are invisible....
I'm wondering also if it's redundant for me to use all the turtle small.paks when I am already running the testudo small.pak. Are those turtle paks only to adjust that aspect of the game to the usual say Medium/Small/Tiny settings? Or fi I am running small testudo and a small turtle pak are there other features added (the ones in the descriptions). Also, I noticed that you cannot recruit units once a certain amount of movement points has been used...what percentage is that?

Is there any way to speed up replenishment without suffering major PO negatives?

[Jake Armitage]

@milt: ah yeah, the anti corruption female, I'll check how many are giving it for your campaign so to understand how much they are convenient

@bthizle: thanks
yeah, forgot to put the texture link for the RPGu units, I'll do
if you're playing small, no, you don't have to use any small turtle_pack 'cause "small" contains everything which is "small", so small turtle packs will overwrite exactly the same things with the same values (no harm though).
so, it make sense to put tiny or medium packs with small, if you want to customize testudo your own way
you can also entirely change a pack (both testudo or turtle, i.e. small to medium or whatever) during a campaign, just remain with the correct tpy

every stance needs at least 50% of the AP, both for player and AI (AI is reacting to it, there is no bug)

to have more replenishment you may use the replenishment stance or put the army inside a garrison, military administration should slightly raise the replenishment in the province, so no, there's no way without decreasing PO

[milt]

@milt: ah yeah, the anti corruption female, I'll check how many are giving it for your campaign so to understand how much they are convenient

I'm curious if I'm solving problems I've created. What the food usage of 10 armies and 6 navies with one unit is compared to 1 or 16 full stacks is. If an army is there isn't differentiation, this may be my food problem.

*if an army is an army.
Sorry about the double post.

[Jake Armitage]

so, I've magically erased all your women and corrution went from -20,2 to -21 (checked next turn too)
since every of yuor women, in theory, was giving -0,5 to corruption (in postive terms) this should have meant a bigger reduction (something like -10 and not - 0,8).
Why is that it's a mystery, can't say. Anyway I'm working with corruption for the virtual points system and I'll see to go more deeply into understanding it.

your navies (besides the one with units, which I didn't count) are consuming 2,5 food (it means 3, rounded)

land armies will consume food depending on units' numbers (that's a stance feature and it's always working non depending on stance type, garrisoned excepted)

[bthizle1]

Is there any way I can edit the texture link to the RPGu units myself for the small pak? Most of my general units are invisible, which is quite an immersion breaker in battles.

Also, do you recommend using the special general units for every general?

[Jake Armitage]

Try this pack (and remove the other one you are using).
I wrongly overwrited the variant column into unit_variants_tables (txh Dresden).
Not sure if that's enough though, please give it a try and report. Thanks.
carthage: https://www.mediafire.com/file/56oxb...STIM.pack/file
rome: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nxks1...ROME.pack/file

Anyway, RPGu units are not made for battle, only the garrison one is. The others one shouldn't take place in a battle, they are giving maluses to their entire army (or garrison if they are garrisoned).
I remove them from the stratmap and recruit a normal army when they have someone who is going to attack.

No I don't recommend to use special BG for everyone at all, if you want a normal/vanilla DeI general (meant for battle), pick the one who has not the RPGu logo on its UI

a better answer regarding one of your previous questions:
every stance needs at least 50% of the AP, both for player and AI (AI is reacting to it, there is no bug)

[bthizle1]

Hmm, how are they meant to be used then? I have one general as an auxillary army unit, and the army gets quite the bonuses....

So the special general units are meant to be positioned in cities only? I don't quite understand. They will still be invisible in sieges though....

[Jake Armitage]

regarding the invisibility, check the #515, i've just edited it.
hope the changes I've done are enough to remove invisibility (all 4 RPGu are invisible)

check this thread for further infos about RPGu, there's everything you need to know and it's updated (the conditions will be shown in game into the unit panel when you hover onto the unit UI)
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-upd-15-jun-19

@milt: ah, now I see, corruption values are actually 0,x, so if in the table you have 10, it means 1, so the 0,5 you have for your women is a 0,05 in reality.

[milt]

regarding the invisibility, check the #515, i've just edited it.

@milt: ah, now I see, corruption values are actually 0,x, so if in the table you have 10, it means 1, so the 0,5 you have for your women is a 0,05 in reality.

That should probably be fixed or removed then? I think in the standard dei it worked (maybe only with men?). Or rather I was somehow able to get close to no a neutral value again for empire maintenance at a higher imperium level. Not sure how I was doing it without characters.

[Jake Armitage]

It can't be fixed 'cause the n% values reported into localizations and coming from some hardcoded script is not moddable (already tried), so the effect wiil be always shown as a +/- n% while it is actually a +/- 0,n%.
My opinion is that CA just forgot to display correct values.

Most of the time I have the same values DeI has but they are % reduced (75%, 66%, 50%).
DeI has -1% (which is actually a -0,1%) for 4th tier females corruption, while testudo has -0,5% (which is actually a -0,05%)
Anyway, I'll have to make some changes when I'll add the economical trust coming from the virtual points system.

[milt]

It can't be fixed 'cause the n% values reported into localizations and coming from some hardcoded script is not moddable (already tried), so the effect wiil be always shown as a +/- n% while it is actually a +/- 0,n%.
My opinion is that CA just forgot to display correct values.

Most of the time I have the same values DeI has but they are % reduced (75%, 66%, 50%).
DeI has -1% (which is actually a -0,1%) for 4th tier females corruption, while testudo has -0,5% (which is actually a -0,05%)
Anyway, I'll have to make some changes when I'll add the economical trust coming from the virtual points system.

Weird. I don't know why it's even if it's so small.

Finally invaded Africa in my campaign. But had to immediately turn tail. 180 units within 1 province, and about half already in my province. 60 belong to Masaesyli. I'll need to bring more another two stacks, I think. But food...

Thanks again!

[Jake Armitage]

maybe... try to use a decoy army, land it a bit far from that nightmare region and see if some enemy armies follow the bait.