[SUBMOD: a Slower Paced DeI Campaign] TESTUDO v.1.7 + Custom Packs [upd: aug.09/20] - OUTDATED

[Jake Armitage]

replenishment: mhhh, I haven't changed much, I just put RPGu values for replenishement too (similar to what they were before with the stance feature - ex green turtle icon).
maybe I've set them too low, I'll check
keep in mind that testudo is designed for using the replenishement stance when you want to replenish.
garrison an army will not raise it much (you can see that the garrison campaign stance is actually grey - medium penalties - for all the figthing RPGu armies except mercenary which is red, meaning high penalties).

[bthizle1]

replenishment: mhhh, I haven't changed much, I just put RPGu values for replenishement too (similar to what they were before with the stance feature - ex green turtle icon).
maybe I've set them too low, I'll check
keep in mind that testudo is designed for using the replenishement stance when you want to replenish.
garrison an army will not raise it much (you can see that the garrison campaign stance is actually grey - medium penalties - for all the figthing RPGu armies except mercenary which is red, meaning high penalties).

I recall in previous versions of Testudo still being able to garrison and get the replenishment bonus...(Wasn't until most recently that I've had the replenishment problems).
The replenishment stance only gives a 7% bonus to replenishment though, which compared to the negatives (ie -4 PO etc..) is pretty big....

[Jake Armitage]

true, garrisoning now (with new RPGu) is worse, basically 'cause garrison is not a good thing to do with armies, anyway I'll lower penalties and slightly raise bonuses about this matter, it seems it may be a little unbalanced.
thanks for reporting, both of you

[bthizle1]

Absolutely, I'll just put this campaign on pause for now. Still trying to get used to all the RPGu generals anyhow.....The regular army is just the regular general unit from DeI right? If so is there still a garrison penalty for them?

[Jake Armitage]

Ok, I've added T/S/M/L/H TURTLE_Weights_LIGHT_Replenish packs into OP.
- raised the replenishemnt variables
- more replenishement from replenish stance, slightly less PO malus, slightly raised the cost

Hope you may find these packs more balanced. You can use the one you want but I would recommend to stay stiock with the T/S/M/L/H pace you're using

If so is there still a garrison penalty for them?
Yes they still have the scripted DeI vanilla maluses for garrisoning, now you have more. You should garrison battle armies only when you're going to be sieged or when you wanna gain exp for the general (battle armies gain 1 general exp also when they are into foreign territories)

[leonardusius]

Yes they still have the scripted DeI vanilla maluses for garrisoning, now you have more. You should garrison battle armies only when you're going to be sieged or when you wanna gain exp for the general (battle armies gain 1 general exp also when they are into foreign territories)

Can you change to have no PO malus or a positive one for garrison armies ONLY when sieged ?

[Jake Armitage]

yes, there is a "is_under_siege" function so it should be doable, external or incorporated into litharion's PO script.
What would be your plan? I don't see much sense since AI is not affected by that PO garrisoned yhing and it should be quite rare for player to be sieged.

[leonardusius]

yes, there is a "is_under_siege" function so it should be doable, external or incorporated into litharion's PO script.
What would be your plan? I don't see much sense since AI is not affected by that PO garrisoned yhing and it should be quite rare for player to be sieged.

Good ! Do it ! It is not quite rare for the player to be sieged at all. Happen to me often.

[Jake Armitage]

Ok then, since should be really easy I'll do.

[where?]

Started using this submod recently after playing DEI for years and really like the slowed down pace and added depth! I did encounter a few concerns though. Been playing Rome/12tpy/huge (except small population &large experience)

All my city populations basically tank by turn 24. In Latin & Italia provinces, so my cities are below 14k people and most are less than 8k. Is this normal or expected? Only 2 cities conquered were occupied and battles/raised armies haven't been anything out of the ordinary. Kept at low or no taxes every turn, and when had "huge population" file, was even more extreme population loss (as expected from description)

Women at the lowest rank have +3 gravitas/ turn. Upgrading them, this drops to 1.5 at level 2, and does not get to 3grav/turn again until level 4 I think. I'm assuming this is a bug or mistake?

[Jake Armitage]

Hi

really like the slowed down pace and added depth: good, there are still a lot of things which can be added (via script), hopefully I'll keep going and continue to add strategical features.

population: pop script is pretty complicated (maybe too much). It is not easy to have an overall understanding of the system (without really focusing on it) and there are some conditions/events which aren't easily trackable/understandable. I've started modding the pop variables at early testudo's stages and I'm mostly modding them by intuition, making slight changes in every update.
Do the issues you're reporting actually limit your recruit possibilities in a not balanced way or you're just concerned about "pop math" values? This difference is pretty important 'cause until your recruitment possibilites are well balanced I think the testudo pop system is working pretty decently. Let me know about this 'cause in my experience I never had real big issues with pop when I had to recruit (except for fresh conquered regions, obviously). I've also started to enlarge this pop perspective by "building curves" (through conditions, intrigues, RPGu, climate) for the recruitment cap per turn.
Through this (and other small things) I Hope to build an enlarged and more strategical system regarding how the player recruit his armies.

Women gravitas: oh, that's surely a mistake, thx for reporting it

[leonardusius]

Ok then, since should be really easy I'll do.

Anything here yet ?

[Jake Armitage]

I think I'll do that before sunday evening

[where?]

For the population numbers, I've been able to avoid having recruiting issues so far, but knowing I could only recruit maybe 3-4 units of principes/hastatii from Roma due to population limits should the need arise is a bit odd. The bigger issue I would say is having all the cities in Latium listed as "extremely sparsely populated" or worse, along with the negative effects associated with that.

I started a new game to pay a little more attention to population, and believe I know where the issue arises from. I typically conquer Arretium first, bringing all 4 of the Latium provinces under Roman control. In typical DEI, or even with Cultural Tension, you have the majority culture and occupying the city allows you to control the PO drop fairly well, even at this early game stage. With Testudo, the new "occupy city" option now has -10 (first turn) and -23 per turn (decrease 1 per) I believe. The decreases in PO bonuses to generals makes controlling the PO very difficult, so despite having 60%+ Latin culture and only occupying the city, it is very easy to see PO drop to -50 and below. As this effects ALL cities in Latium, all 4 cities become very unhappy. I suspect the maluses to population growth from PO have been increased under Testudo? I ask, as once the PO drops, I often see a decrease in population of 2000-3000 people in EACH of the cities in Latium per turn. Because by turn 6 after conquering the city you hare still at -16 PO and have already seen a total of -114 PO effects over the last 5 turns, you will lose significant population from all cities, just because you brought in and occupied the 4th city in the province.

One of the things that make this odd to me is I believe under the current mechanic, "Loot city" might actually now become a better option. While you initially loose population, the higher one-time PO effect and lower decaying PO effect would make PO easier to control. And as PO would be easier to control, presumably your population after 10 turns would actually end up higher than "occupy city".

I understand why the increased penalties to PO were added to 'occupy city", but I think it might make for odd game play, especially with how much worse the decaying PO effect now is. Perhaps if another PO negative mechanic or lessening the population effect negative PO has could alleviate this. I appreciate the increased difficulty and how PO makes you slow your conquest down, but its secondary effects on the population of the rest of the province seem to warrant a second look

[Jake Armitage]

Well... yes, what you're saying is 100% true, the dynamic works this way.
I'll check the PO pop variables so to limit this issue. And i'll probably slightly change the pop thresholds which assign effects

It is true that Rome 2 actually has a complex "underground scheme" (meaning that a lot of things are running on the backgroud) but at the end they will affect the same things, like money, PO, growth, diplomacy etc...
If I'll set the pop system to be too permissive it means you'll get more money. I could do that but it would mean I'll have to lower gdp somewhere else since I don't want it to be too high for obvious testudo reasons.

I've lowered loot pretty much in 1.6.1, do I have to lower it a little more? Sorry but I never looted in my life so I don't know much how it works.

[Jake Armitage]

Anything here yet ?

here it is.

The pack is fine (meaning that it doesn't corrupt other scripts) but it would be better if it actually happens to have a new army effect the turn next of being sieged. You need to have a charcater garrisoned in the city. The effect won't have texts/titles, just the PO effect.

It is divided to add different PO bonuses depending on army size (how many units you have)
Starting from a +1 PO when you have 1/2 units, till + 7 PO when >= 18 (you can mod the as you wish into effect_junctions)

load it before everything else (it has a script callback into campaign script)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/tndbi...eged.pack/file

[leonardusius]

here it is.

Very good work. Testudo is getting better and better. You can incorporate that into the optionals. Thanks a lot.

[Jake Armitage]

I'll incorporate it into main mod as soon as someone reports it's working fine (it should but better to have proofs)

[Lebanese Dude]

Hey Jake.

Industrial chain in minor cities is broken (Carthage). The column values must be mixed up cause I'm getting 713% slave income or something when I would assume it should be 713 income.

[Jake Armitage]

Hey

hmmm, I've checked the industrial values for carthago (same as for greeks) and I don't see wrong ones...
can you send me the savegame so I can check what exactly you are talking about?

saves are inside: users > user > appdata > roaming > The Creative Assembly > Rome 2 > save_games (you'll have to unhidden the folders for user if I remember correctly you may want to google it)
you can zip the save and upload it into TWC or in some external site and paste the link

thanks for reporting