[SUBMOD: a Slower Paced DeI Campaign] TESTUDO v.1.7 + Custom Packs [upd: aug.09/20] - OUTDATED

[Jake Armitage]

ok I'll do a pack but not for AI (player only).
I assure you there is no need to mess up too much with AI.

[nikossaiz]

there is no need to mess up too much with AI

being one of the hugier supporters of the PIGs attributes to upplyed on AI also, i can only say that Jake has right on this, since the Ai doesnt understand any of the walkarounds that the moders use and may have other side affects on the AI that we cant possible know.
That is why i like that those attributes are of low game impact and mostly immersive. Anyway As an option is always welcome! Praise JAke for his liberal way of approach

[Jake Armitage]

In this specific case giving a recruitment reduction (depending on maj/min culture) will seriously mess up 1 region AI faction.
And seriously limit other factions who start with minority culture.
So, no, it's no good for AI but it's ok for the player since he can use the military administration intrigue and/or the RPGu drill troop.

[Aureliae]

@Jake Armitage
I've recently started playing DeI again after some of the recent updates, along with Testudo. The updates are both a blessing and a curse: All the new features and additions are great but updates that aren't save compatible mean that I often restart campaigns I've sunk many hours into. So a few questions for you, to help me determine whether I'll continue my current and when I might start a new one.

1. What changes will 1.6.1 feature other than the expanded RPGu?

2. What changes might we see in 1.7?

3. Will 1.7 be save compatible with earlier versions? Would you suggest I wait to start a long term campaign after you release 1.7 or are there already planned future updates after 1.7 that will not be save game compatible? If there are many not save compatible updates already planned, then I may bide my time with Napoleon: Total War and other games...

Thanks you for all your hard work and time, Jake. You, the DeI team, and other submodders make this game unbelievably awesome.

[Jake Armitage]

Hi.
yeah, I get what you say but that's how the world goes...
I can't do much since most of the things I'm doing are via script.

1. expanded RPGu is the main one, then there are a lot of rebalancements and changes into script. Diplomacy has been changed quite a lot too.
2. ah, it depends on how I wake up in the morning... I'll probably change some PIGS features and maybe insert the trading region system
3. nope, it won't. I think that every update I'll do it won't be save game compatible

just a final note: I'm gonna release 1.6.1 in a few hours from now, which means that the update is 4 months later than the last one. I think it is quite a lot of time for a long term campaign.
Dunno when 1.7 will be released, maybe during christmas, maybe on january.

[Jake Armitage]

TESTUDO 1.6.1
IS OUT!

Uff, updating TWC threads is worst than modding...
So, many changes, here (best choice is to play and see them in-game)
As far as I tested I liked them.
Please, keep reporting and uploading save-games every 200 turns

- Check # 1-2-3 posts for descriptions
- Check RPGu for a "detailed" description of the new system: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-upd-dec-01-19
- Check VPS for a "detailed" description of the changes: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-upd-dec-01-19

- Should be overall easier
- A lot of changes here and there
- Longer turn thresholds for TESTUDO_Timeline
- Added PIGS_Generl_Status to AI too (thx to ivanpera for doing the script)
- Could be that children will stop dying, not 100% sure though
- Climate: now different climates can produce RECRUITMENT POINTS variations (an overhaul of climate will come out with next update). I've changed the dice rolls too (less probable).
- I've begun to work with Diplomacy. I've done a lot of minor changes hoping that the system is more interesting. Keep in mind that player will always be object of weird declarations (you can reload for a different seed). I'll try to limit them with some ideas I have in mind into next update. If you can't declare war (the button is absent) is because you're still in the first turns and some wars are blocked via script (it will return normal on third spring for 4 tpy and second spring for 12 tpy)
- Updated all the TURTLE_parts
- TURTLE_Parts_Movement : added some variables which are reducing settlements' and forces' radius (the red circle into strat map). Scaled depending on pack chosen
- Added TURTLE_Parts pack for Loyalty (I've changed the balance for the Civil War system, but you'll have more counters from RPGu)
- Less differences between TURTLE_Weights_LIGHT and HEAVY
- added TURTLE_Weights pack for agents (action % raised)
- added TURTLE_Weights pack for the effects given by the Majority/Minority feature (pink turtle icon into army panel)
- added TURTLE_Weights pack so to give +1 Armies to AI (from 3rd Imperium)
- added TURTLE_Weights pack so to give +1 Recruitment Points to AI

ps. keep in mind that I've added a pack (TESTUDO_MAIN). Needed for modding modularity.

Have fun!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Aureliae]

@Jake Armitage

...which means that the update is 4 months later than the last one. I think it is quite a lot of time for a long term campaign.

I agree with you in theory, but I am a university student, so unfortunately things aren't that simple.

But I've been reading through all the new and upcoming additions for Testudo/RPGu/VPS/PIGS, and everything you've recently added and plan to add in 1.7 sounds simply too good to play without. I have exams soon and I will be doing a lot of traveling in the next month, so I'll go ahead and keep awaiting for future versions, maybe 1.7 or later, and either start a long term campaign when things are more stable or I'll just stick with one version of Testudo without updating for the sake of finishing a campaign...and Halo: Reach is being released on Steam in the next few days, so that can keep me plenty busy in the mean time.

I'll be keeping close watch on your progress! DeI and your submods give Rome 2 the proper campaign complexity I've always wanted but could never dream of.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Good job, Jake!

I'm curious about those climate changes you are now working on.

[leonardusius]

In this specific case giving a recruitment reduction (depending on maj/min culture) will seriously mess up 1 region AI faction.
And seriously limit other factions who start with minority culture.
So, no, it's no good for AI but it's ok for the player since he can use the military administration intrigue and/or the RPGu drill troop.

Already said it's easy; please do one, I'm eager to test it. Always i played with it, and i'm curious what can happen and maybe i will improve it (or a guide to make myself one)

[Jake Armitage]

I agree with you in theory, but I am a university student, so unfortunately things aren't that simple.

Just wait and see what happens after... statistically it is surely not simplier.
My advice would be to enjoy your time since you're still there.

I'm curious about those climate changes you are now working on.

Pretty simple.
There is an hardcoded script governing the "season_province_effect_bundles_tables".
We can put all the custom climate we want (related to seasons and provinces, the ones you want) and then through a dice roll (coming from the hardcoded script) an effect is applied.
DeI (Dresden or someone else) has already done that, meaning it has added all those custom climates (like hot scorhing summer).
What has been done until now is good and works well, but we could add x different situations, actually. To diversify possibilities.
And also (probably) we could add a consequent dilemma (for some custom climates) where you have to pick a decision (there is a way to randomize the outcome of your choice too, so you won't already know the answer like for CA vanilla events).

So, basically, I don't know yet what I'll do but the possibilities are really wide.
I'll open a thread into the alcove to see if someone is interested to work/discuss about this.

Already said it's easy; please do one, I'm eager to test it. Always i played with it, and i'm curious what can happen and maybe i will improve it (or a guide to make myself one)

Well, I answered too quickly, actually.
Now that I think about this is not really doable...
Why? For this reason:
The effects governing the recruitment points come from the province and the province only. Since you can't script effects to regions (we don't have that type of function while Attila has it) it means you'll have to link the effect to the army and (through the army) to the region where the army is. But since the recruitment points effect is "provincial" it means that every army (deployed on that region) will give the effect to the region itself.
To make an example, let's say that you're giving -1 recruitment points through 1 army. If you have 2 armies you will be giving -2 recruitment points. If you have 10 it will be -10.
As you can imagine this will lead to absurd situations, for AI mostly 'cause it's not capable to understand what's happening and it will probably never recruit anything.
You could do a script to count how many armies are deployed in that region, to try to resolve this issue, but honestly we are going into "complicated territories" here.

Is there another workaround? Yes, I think so. But you'll have to do that through cdir tables (the ones governing events where we have the possibility to apply regional effect and track down the culture by its % value and not only through minority/majority culture as it is for scripts).
I've never worked much on those cdir yet. I'll probably do, dunno yet what and how and when.

What I've done is the TURTLE_Weight pack for the effects given by the Majority/Minority feature (pink turtle icon into army panel).
Use the Heavy pack and you'll have some slight penalties more (player only, not for AI)

[valerius karamanus]

(there is a way to randomize the outcome of your choice too, so you won't already know the answer like for CA vanilla events).

Wait how is it possible?

[leonardusius]

Just wait and see what happens after... statistically it is surely not simplier.
Is there another workaround? Yes, I think so. But you'll have to do that through cdir tables (the ones governing events where we have the possibility to apply regional effect and track down the culture by its % value and not only through minority/majority culture as it is for scripts).
I've never worked much on those cdir yet. I'll probably do, dunno yet what and how and when.

What I've done is the TURTLE_Weight pack for the effects given by the Majority/Minority feature (pink turtle icon into army panel).
Use the Heavy pack and you'll have some slight penalties more (player only, not for AI)

Sound pretty interesting with cdir but I have no clue how to start to do that. All I want is to have a penalty for recruitment when you're not the major culture inside a region.
Also, why do you make only for player and not to AI ? Seems very unbalanced and unfair.

[Jake Armitage]

Wait how is it possible?

It is based on pure logic.
To say it simple, you make various copies of the same dilemma but you rotate the effects given by the various buttons.
This means the player will see the same screen but he can't know what rotation he's seeing at.
You should be able to apply it to the 2 possibilities we have to trigger dilemmas, which are:
1) via standard cdir
2) via "smart" script using the various HAS_EFFECTS_BUNDLE conditions (via script you have many more possibilities and complexities)
...3) actually there is a third way but as far as I tested it doesn't work properly, the dilemma appears but no effect is given (speaking of the function used to change capital by CA or customized for DeI)

So, let's say we want to do a custom climate where frogs are falling from the sky.
And let's say we want to trigger a dilemma (by using the HAS_EFFECT_BUNDLE condition) where we can choose to (dilemmas have 4 options max):
1) eat them
2) splash them
3) kiss them
4) talk to them
Speaking of vanilla game, we are used to know what kind of payloads we'll have 'cause payloads and buttons are monodimensionally related (you push button 1 and you'll always have effect 1).
By using logic we can build 4 different frog climates that will give the same regional effect bundle (with 4 different names though). Then ((by using the HAS_EFFECT_BUNDLE condition) a dilemma is triggered and the player will always see the same screen with the same button choice order but he won't know what 1/2/3/4 frog climate he's actually looking at. And obviously we have built the pack so that those 4 frog climate will change/rotate/whatever the effects linked to the buttons.

I'll go deeper by opening a thread into the alcove, when I'll start working on the climate or on those smart events I have in mind.

Sound pretty interesting with cdir but I have no clue how to start to do that. All I want is to have a penalty for recruitment when you're not the major culture inside a region.
Also, why do you make only for player and not to AI ? Seems very unbalanced and unfair.

Yes it is interesting indeed.
You start doing that by tracking down and emulating an existing incident or dilemma and then built yours as you wish respecting the tools CA gave us. Basically, by modding.
I'll do something for that but not soon, probably.

You shouldn't care much about what is fair or unfair, you should care how AI is overall behaving, that's all.
If you add complexities the AI can't handle then you're just letting him become a bigger garbage than it already is.
And besides the concept above, the AI is so buffed (so it is for DeI too) that it won't even notice the effects I've put for that feature.
And besides the fact that it won't notice, we'll also give a scripted effect to every deployed general in the map, which means lags while you're waiting for AI turns.
So it is neither unbalanced nor unfair, it would simply be useless (speaking specifically of that Weight pack).

[valerius karamanus]

So that way kissing the frogs not always morphs them into princes, but sometimes doing it can give me warts too... Brilliantly explained!

I was curious about this randomness thing especially how the Syracusan colony dilemmas handled in cdir, unfortunately I don't have the Rise of Republic so it wouldn't be possible for me to test in-game. Good thing we can shuffle the outcomes especially from the immersive roleplaying perspective. Events in vanilla get boring once you know the rewards and stuff.

[leonardusius]

It is based on pure logic.
Yes it is interesting indeed.
You start doing that by tracking down and emulating an existing incident or dilemma and then built yours as you wish respecting the tools CA gave us. Basically, by modding.
I'll do something for that but not soon, probably.

You shouldn't care much about what is fair or unfair, you should care how AI is overall behaving, that's all.
If you add complexities the AI can't handle then you're just letting him become a bigger garbage than it already is.
And besides the concept above, the AI is so buffed (so it is for DeI too) that it won't even notice the effects I've put for that feature.
And besides the fact that it won't notice, we'll also give a scripted effect to every deployed general in the map, which means lags while you're waiting for AI turns.
So it is neither unbalanced nor unfair, it would simply be useless (speaking specifically of that Weight pack).

I know you have right overall, but what if....what if ? Maybe after that i will further go on with some other new ideas. Who knows......basically, I just want to not be apt for recruitment when you're a minority. Wait for you to do something . As for lags, any decent PC config nowaday is enough to run smoothly the game without any lags.

[Jake Armitage]

@ valerius:
yep, this type of smart events will be surely really nice 'cause they won'r be obvious, they will linked more properly to what is happening during the campaign and will give much to do for submods like testudo where you have many turns between real actions.
Fact is that this smart event system requires the development of other things (mostly a character rpg overhaul which I already have in mind).

@leo:
well, try this then, it gives the pink/purple turtle icons to AI too (from 2nd turn) and gives -1 recruitment points to every army stationed in an owned minor culture region.
Might work fine as it might not, speaking of gameplay
https://www.mediafire.com/file/137ff..._Leo.pack/file

[leonardusius]

@ valerius:
@leo:
well, try this then, it gives the pink/purple turtle icons to AI too (from 2nd turn) and gives -1 recruitment points to every army stationed in an owned minor culture region.
Might work fine as it might not, speaking of gameplay
https://www.mediafire.com/file/137ff..._Leo.pack/file

Be blessed. I will test and see what's going on; maybe further improvement with more costly recruitment units (with or without -1 recruitment points); I will see.

[Jake Armitage]

Ok, make some reports or upload the savegmaes
If you wanna mod something just edit the effect_bundle_junction table where you can add/remove things

[Jake Armitage]

EXPERIMENTAL BATTLE PACK COMPATIBILITY

The RPGu feature has custom BG (except for the starting ones at first turn) and changes both land_units_tables and main_units_tables.
This means that the experimental battle pack is technically compatible but NOT RECOMMENDED 'cause all the player's BGs who aren't the starting ones (the ones you have at first turn) won't be balanced.

I will update the changes as soon as the experimental is experimental no more and will be officially added to DeI

[nhokon16]

Hi, why is the rpgu's not working, i play as seleucid by the way. i download and put everything in order.