[SUBMOD: a Slower Paced DeI Campaign] TESTUDO v.1.7 + Custom Packs [upd: aug.09/20] - OUTDATED

[Jake Armitage]

ok, notce that effect will take place one turn after you have recruited the unit, I tried to make it changing effect during turn or at start, but wasn't able.
If you'll be, please tell me

[leonardusius]

ok, notce that effect will take place one turn after you have recruited the unit, I tried to make it changing effect during turn or at start, but wasn't able.
If you'll be, please tell me

What ? I don't understand.

[Jake Armitage]

Example: you have 4 units, you recruit one, next turn you'll have 5, then next turn after this the effect will take place.
you have 4 units, you recruit a mercenary, so this turn you have 5, then next turn after this the effect will take place.

Notice also that testudo stances script won't trigger when on garrison. My choice not to interfere with DeI PO scxripts

[Silas_]

Hey Jake, would it be possible for you to put up or update a mod like the one here by zonks40: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ign-difficulty

I only ask because a friend and I would love to play DEI campaigns with Testudo but can't change the campaign difficulty to hard as you recommend and leave battle difficulty on normal in multiplayer. I would do it myself but I really don't know what to do. Thanks for your time and sharing your submod pack.

[Jake Armitage]

Playing in multiplayer doesn't allow you to change battle difficulty? Didn't know that but never played multi.
I see what you want to do by adapting that pack, I'll try something similar for Testudo, but don't expect too much, I'll just put some general maluses.

What pack (huge, large, medium, small) do you intend to use? 4tpy or 12 tpy? Just courious about.

Probably today or tomorrow max I'll release official 1.4, btw.

[Silas_]

Yes, in a multiplayer campaign you can only set one overall difficulty level before you start. Very annoying, thus the need for a mod like that one when you need to have normal battles and hard campaign. Thank you for anything you are able and willing to do, looking forward to your 1.4 release.

If it's available we would choose either medium(for 4tpy) or huge(for immersive experience) with De Ai Arbitriis and Cultural Tensio VPack.

[leonardusius]

Notice also that testudo stances script won't trigger when on garrison. My choice not to interfere with DeI PO scxripts

Why not ? Your stances gives units inherent qualities, not so ?

[Jake Armitage]

^ 'Cause DeI already has a complex garrison script, didn't want to mess around with it.
Anyway, I like garrison as a peculiarity for testudo stances

@silas

[leonardusius]

^ 'Cause DeI already has a complex garrison script, didn't want to mess around with it.
Anyway, I like garrison as a peculiarity for testudo stances

@silas

So, for example, your units in garrison stance no more consume food ?

[Jake Armitage]

Every testudo stance effect will be removed and garrison script will work as per vanilla.
This will change the turn after you enter a garrison.

[leonardusius]

Every testudo stance effect will be removed and garrison script will work as per vanilla.
This will change the turn after you enter a garrison.

In this case what's the point of defining the 'TESTUDO_stan_2, TESTUDO_stan_5, etc' stances ? What garrison script you're talking about Jake ? TESTUDO_stan.lua ?
Ahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ! I guess it's about
>>>>>>>>and context:character():has_garrison_residence() == false >>>>>>>>>>> line from your TESTUDO_stan.lua script. basically this tell us if army is in garrison mode, units of it will not have any 'inherited factors' like in other stances defined by your 'TESTUDO_stan_2, TESTUDO_stan_5, etc', and that's another big drawback. Because troops have INHERENT 'qualities' ALWAYS, not only in some circumstances.
Where is the DEI garrison script ?

[Jake Armitage]

Exactly.
About my choices, you know, everything isn't perfect, but I'm mostly satisfied for now.

DeI garrison script is into PublicOrder.lua

[leonardusius]

Exactly.
About my choices, you know, everything isn't perfect, but I'm mostly satisfied for now.

DeI garrison script is into PublicOrder.lua

I checked and there is no interference with your Testudo stances at all. DeI garrison script address something else. So I will delete only that (in my personal mod):
and context:character():has_garrison_residence() == false
and thus units will always have same 'qualities' everywhere.
But on the effects I will retain only who address percentages, because otherwise I can't be consistent in logic. So, removed FOOD. And that's bad. Still wondering how to balance this.

[Jake Armitage]

Yeah it's not a matter of interference, but balancing, I didn't have will to check seriously that garrison script, and noticed that was ok this way in-game

Can't you simply put a -0,1 food (or whatever non %) for every unit you have? It's like considering a %, this way.
A total of 2 for 20 units is a little too much, but maybe not. Could be ok with some other rebalancing.
Notice also that DeI gives a -1 penalty to food (if I remember correctly) for armies outside garrison.

[leonardusius]

Yeah it's not a matter of interference, but balancing, I didn't have will to check seriously that garrison script, and noticed that was ok this way in-game

Can't you simply put a -0,1 food (or whatever non %) for every unit you have? It's like considering a %, this way.
A total of 2 for 20 units is a little too much, but maybe not. Could be ok with some other rebalancing.
Notice also that DeI gives a -1 penalty to food (if I remember correctly) for armies outside garrison.

Besides -1 penalty for food for 2 units same as for 22 units it's a nonsense, I will explain bellow my reasoning:
1 unit army food consumption 0.1
2 unit army ............. 0.2
3 unit army ............. 0.3
etc
etc.
Notice the maintained ratio, 3 units consumes 3X food vs. 1 unit.
Now I want to enter those into a stance where consumption of food doubles. Normally,
1 unit army food consumption 0.2
2 unit army ............. 0.4
3 unit army ............. 0.6
Notice the ratio are logical.
But because I can't input percentages, only +1, or +2, etc.....at food, those lines will be:
1 unit army food consumption 1.1
2 unit army ............. 1.2
3 unit army ............. 1.3
etc.
Way illogical and way unbalanced.
Understand ?

[Jake Armitage]

Yes, you can't 'cause you can't script anything for a particular stance, nor you have a % effect (check if you can do a custom one).

Anyway, if you put -0,1/-0,2/-0,3 ..., if you have 5 armies with 10 units you'll receive -5 to food, globally.
And then play a little with the stance effects, although if they are constant. That's the way I did.
Dunno if it's good for so many different effects (from 1 to 20).

[leonardusius]

Yes, you can't 'cause you can't script anything for a particular stance, nor you have a % effect (check if you can do a custom one).

Anyway, if you put -0,1/-0,2/-0,3 ..., if you have 5 armies with 10 units you'll receive -5 to food, globally.
And then play a little with the stance effects, although if they are constant. That's the way I did.
Dunno if it's good for so many different effects (from 1 to 20).

Yees, please check if we can do a custom effect.
'if you have 5 armies with 10 units you'll receive -5 to food, globally.' So what ? Troops needs food, it's a fact. Not this is the problem, but -0.1+1=0.9; -0.2+1=0.8 and the ratio between 0.2/0.1 (2) isn't equal with 0.8/0.9 (0.8888).

[Jake Armitage]

I was saying that it's better than nothing.

[leonardusius]

I was saying that it's better than nothing.

Here I disagree. Sometimes only adding something is worse than nothing. We must be consistent in logic. Here reminds me the idiotic CA formulas for cavalry impact vs. infantry. Same issues. Instead using the good old simple physique formulas they managed to destroy all sort of logic.
OK, maybe you check that custom effect if it is possible. Thanks a lot.

[Jake Armitage]

Look, there are a LOT of hours behind my moddings, even if it doesn't seems so . If I had to work on every lightly unsatisfying thing I have encountered, I would have gone crazy.
Modding needs priorities (to be satisfied during free-time), every modder has to choose on what he wants to work on. And doing compromises for the sake of a good campaign.
Sincerley, I wouldn't use phrases like "We must be consistent in logic" in a videogame modding forum.
I get what you're saying, and probably you're right, but that's the way I modded Testudo, and since it's good, well, let's think about major priorities.

Well, can't promise, if I'll need to do other custom effect, I'll surely try that.