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Thread: [SUBMOD: a Slower Paced DeI Campaign] TESTUDO v.1.6 (DeI 1.2.5) + Custom Packs [upd: aug.07/19]

  1. #181
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    4. could be
    5. yes, doesn't work
    6. keep trying or upload pack

  2. #182

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    4. could be
    5. yes, doesn't work
    6. keep trying or upload pack
    6. Look my previous link.

  3. #183

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Can we script a specific stance ? For example vanilla (not DEI) forced march to allow different results with different number on units ? Because only now I manage to understand what you've done with your previous diversified number on units: you give different results based on number of units for ALL stances ! Correct ? I don't like that. I want to do this for specific stances.

  4. #184
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    No you can't (or I am not able to do).
    As a said a lot of times (3 at least) during lately discussion, you can't trigger a scripted effect for a specific stance, there is no lua function for such thing. You can script (obvoiusly) for the entire army and then realign overall stance values.
    Maybe a script could be done through reading if stance UI is on/off. I'm not capable nor I'm planning to become capable to investigate this further.

    Me too "I don't like", but or it works, or it doesn't.

  5. #185

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    So, what's the point to give rom_general_local_mod_happiness to all stances (different value depending on units number), for example ?

  6. #186
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    cause i gave a lot of scripted values to testudo active stance (vanilla none stance) that are depending on units' number and that are always triggered except when garrisoned. So I had to rebalance every other stance with fixed values (non depending by anything since can't give effects to a single stance). So, if i gave i.e. +3 to PO when at 10 units, i'll have to give a malus to stances that do not give PO bonuses. I had to work with math averages.

  7. #187
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by leonardusius View Post
    I have some questions since I saw you're very analytic, like me:
    1. why rom_province_growth_province_effects -0.6 ? Negative growth ? Reason ?
    2. why rom_force_campaign_mod_replenishment_rate -0.6 ? Reason ?
    3. rom_tech_military_management_unit_cost_mod 3 ? What means that ? Units will cost more ? 3 (end_round_completed) means what ?
    4. why you used very much the ''this_force_local_province'', since it is possible that your other regions of province to be held by enemies/others ???
    5. I modded a little and scripted further your testudo stances with diversified units numbers on Patrol (DeI vanilla), can you take a look ?
    https://ufile.io/vzgol
    I didn't edit or check deeply this pack. This is what I see at first glance:

    1) First error found is inside the script callback into campaigns > main_rome (or the campaign you want to play) > scripting.lua
    look at this, it's latest (at least think so) scripting.lua DeI file - check the bottom with PFM:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    scripting.AddEventCallBack("TimeTrigger", OnTimeTrigger)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- Start Population scripts magnar + Litharion
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    local population = require "lua_scripts.population"
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- Start external scripts of DEI
    -- Selea, Litharion
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    local reforms = require "lua_scripts.reforms";
    local army_caps = require "lua_scripts.army_caps";
    local saka_reform = require "lua_scripts.saka_reform";
    local gc_scripts = require "lua_scripts.gc_scripts";
    local gc_start_scripts = require "lua_scripts.gc_first_turn_setup";
    local auto_resolve = require "lua_scripts.auto_resolve_bonus";
    local PublicOrder = require "lua_scripts.PublicOrder";
    local supply_system = require "lua_scripts.supply_system";
    local historical_events = require "lua_scripts.historical_events";
    local SeleucidRebels = require "lua_scripts.SeleucidRebels";
    local changeCapital = require "lua_scripts.changeCapital";
    local money = require "lua_scripts.money";

    as you can see, DeI team put a callback to every external script they have done. If you add new external scripts, you'll have to add the callbacks (remember to take the correct scripting.lua depending on mod and campaign)
    for example:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    scripting.AddEventCallBack("TimeTrigger", OnTimeTrigger)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- Start Population scripts magnar + Litharion
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    local population = require "lua_scripts.population"
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- Start external scripts of DEI
    -- Selea, Litharion
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    local reforms = require "lua_scripts.reforms";
    local army_caps = require "lua_scripts.army_caps";
    local saka_reform = require "lua_scripts.saka_reform";
    local gc_scripts = require "lua_scripts.gc_scripts";
    local gc_start_scripts = require "lua_scripts.gc_first_turn_setup";
    local auto_resolve = require "lua_scripts.auto_resolve_bonus";
    local PublicOrder = require "lua_scripts.PublicOrder";
    local supply_system = require "lua_scripts.supply_system";
    local historical_events = require "lua_scripts.historical_events";
    local SeleucidRebels = require "lua_scripts.SeleucidRebels";
    local changeCapital = require "lua_scripts.changeCapital";
    local money = require "lua_scripts.money";
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- TESTUDO callbacks
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    local TESTUDO_AI = require "lua_scripts.TESTUDO_AI";
    local TESTUDO_geneAb = require "lua_scripts.TESTUDO_geneAb";
    local TESTUDO_warw = require "lua_scripts.TESTUDO_warw";
    local TESTUDO_civi = require "lua_scripts.TESTUDO_civi";
    local TESTUDO_econ = require "lua_scripts.TESTUDO_econ";
    local TESTUDO_gene = require "lua_scripts.TESTUDO_gene";
    local TESTUDO_stan = require "lua_scripts.TESTUDO_stan";
    local TESTUDO_trea = require "lua_scripts.TESTUDO_trea";

    You added also trea econ civi and AI, but you don't have those script.
    Obviously, you'll have to keep DeI (or any other) callback and add only the ones you're adding, like TESTUDO_stan, if you want only stances.
    I've tried to do a customized scripting.lua file, but wasn't able to make it works, think it's not doable, a campaign can have only one scripting.lua probably.

    2) Second error, into TESTUDO_stan.lua you added a script. I didn't check synthax, but you called your script as I called mine. You can't, they are 2 different scripts since they are two different local functions.
    Change the name (i.e.TESTUDO_stanceseng) and then add callback at the end of the script (not the load values part, just a string with the name of your local function like I did).
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; August 04, 2018 at 09:38 AM.

  8. #188

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    cause i gave a lot of scripted values to testudo active stance (vanilla none stance) that are depending on units' number and that are always triggered except when garrisoned. So I had to rebalance every other stance with fixed values (non depending by anything since can't give effects to a single stance). So, if i gave i.e. +3 to PO when at 10 units, i'll have to give a malus to stances that do not give PO bonuses. I had to work with math averages.
    So, you want to say your script creates an inherent same characteristics on units depending on theirs number. Ex, a force with 4 units enter fortify stance will add same 'qualities' as a force of 24 but with a lower impact. Ex, the 4 unit will apply 0.5 at 'happiness' and a force of 24 will do 7. So , you'll have to balance the fortify basic stance 'happiness' function. You gave a -6 (an overall). Basically you add an inherent qualities for an army in every single stance ? You push over the complication. The simple thing is to retain the vanilla BASIC 'qualities' (and even add or substract some others) and make them differ only with the unit force number.
    That's how I view the improvement.

  9. #189
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Exactly.
    Yes it's complicated, but it's the only (and first functioning) way I found.
    Consider that we are talking about a module of testudo, there are many more. So consider testudo stance balanced for testudo more than anything else. Talking about method and values.

    "The simple thing is to retain the vanilla BASIC 'qualities' (and even add or substract some others) and make them differ only with the unit force number."
    It depends on what you want to achieve, a simplier solution will lead to a simplier mod, thing I didn't want with testudo.

  10. #190

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    Exactly.
    Yes it's complicated, but it's the only (and first functioning) way I found.
    Consider that we are talking about a module of testudo, there are many more. So consider testudo stance balanced for testudo more than anything else. Talking about method and values.

    "The simple thing is to retain the vanilla BASIC 'qualities' (and even add or substract some others) and make them differ only with the unit force number."
    It depends on what you want to achieve, a simplier solution will lead to a simplier mod, thing I didn't want with testudo.
    In this way, you introduced 10 new inherent 'qualities' for army; for some I can't find the logic.
    positive food consumption, positive squalor, positive happiness, positive unit cost (??), negative replenishment (??), negative banditry (do you think an army occupied with fortification for example have the time to go after bandits ??), movement range positive (army fortifying having a bonus of movement ??), upkeep positive (we have already upkeep) etc....
    Last edited by leonardusius; August 04, 2018 at 10:38 AM.

  11. #191

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    "The simple thing is to retain the vanilla BASIC 'qualities' (and even add or substract some others) and make them differ only with the unit force number."
    It depends on what you want to achieve, a simplier solution will lead to a simplier mod, thing I didn't want with testudo.
    You said it can't be done. Now you suggest it can be ?

  12. #192
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Believe me, values are good (even if always improvable) as they are set for a complete testudo campaign, they interact with many other micromangements which comes from other modules.
    Don't look at testudo values as reality values, see them as an assemble that produces the last number you have to interact (like banditry in a region). Since you have a lot of micromangements, imo, it will add new dimensions in playing stratmap, 'cause you'll have to interact with a lot of +/- values to balance and improve your campaign.
    Use stance as a model for what you want to achieve and re-make values from scratch, keeping present the basic values the mod (like DeI) you want to sub-mod.

    "You said it can't be done. Now you suggest it can be ? "
    No, was talking in general, from my pov you might trigger a scripted effect to a particular stance only via UI. If it is possible I dunno.

  13. #193

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    Believe me, values are good (even if always improvable) as they are set for a complete testudo campaign, they interact with many other micromangements which comes from other modules.
    Don't look at testudo values as reality values, see them as an assemble that produces the last number you have to interact (like banditry in a region). Since you have a lot of micromangements, imo, it will add new dimensions in playing stratmap, 'cause you'll have to interact with a lot of +/- values to balance and improve your campaign.
    Use stance as a model for what you want to achieve and re-make values from scratch, keeping present the basic values the mod (like DeI) you want to sub-mod.
    You're very ingenious but not consistent. We have a good statement for this: ''to scraching the left ear with the right hand''. It's not a critique, tough. I don't see in this 'logic' an improvement.

  14. #194

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by leonardusius View Post
    You're very ingenious but not consistent. We have a good statement for this: ''to scraching the left ear with the right hand''. It's not a critique, tough. I don't see in this 'logic' an improvement.
    But I have a new idea: what about to let those 'inherent' introduced qualities to be same as the basis stances ? Than we can have a neat distinction between different numbers of units !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Ougggh ! Nope, this will not work but only with 1 stance !

  15. #195
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    I get it's not a critique, but, look, I'm modding, not saving a princess from a monster.
    And believe me, testudo is the best harder and slower DeI submod around. It's complete, obviously improvable (reason I'm still around and planning updates). Stances are fine as they are (for now).
    If you find better ways, here I am. But, please, files, not words.

    "But I have a new idea: what about to let those 'inherent' introduced qualities to be same as the basis stances ? Than we can have a neat distinction between different numbers of units !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
    could be but what would change for the the" last number you have to interact (like banditry in a region)" - cit. from #194- ? Probably nothing. I'll think about anyway, thx for suggestion.
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; August 04, 2018 at 10:57 AM.

  16. #196

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    I get it's not a critique, but, look, I'm modding, not saving a princess from a monster.
    And believe me, testudo is the best harder and slower DeI submod around. It's complete, obviously improvable (reason I'm still around and planning updates). Stances are fine as they are (for now).
    If you find better ways, here I am. But, please, files, not words.

    "But I have a new idea: what about to let those 'inherent' introduced qualities to be same as the basis stances ? Than we can have a neat distinction between different numbers of units !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
    could be but what would change for the the" last number you have to interact (like banditry in a region)" - cit. from #194- ? Probably nothing. I'll think about anyway, thx for suggestion.
    ''But I have a new idea: what about to let those 'inherent' introduced qualities to be same as the basis stances ? Than we can have a neat distinction between different numbers of units !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!''
    Ougggh ! Nope, this will not work but only with 1 stance !

  17. #197
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    You'll see that modding will require thinking, trials, balancing and time.
    And compromises, to find the best way to achieve what you're planning

  18. #198

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    You'll see that modding will require thinking, trials, balancing and time.
    And compromises, to find the best way to achieve what you're planning
    Correct. But I will go on my way. I sent a suggestion to CA to provide us a lua function for that.

  19. #199
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Oh, well, cool!
    Keep modding until you begin suffering from it, no more.

    Anyway my advice is to start adapting that march and engage submod to a final and better version.
    Last edited by Jake Armitage; August 04, 2018 at 12:36 PM.

  20. #200

    Default Re: [SUBMOD: a slower and harder DeI campaign] TESTUDO v.1.3 (DeI 1.2.2L1) + various specific MODULES [may 06/18]- ONLY MOVEMENT IS COMPATIBLE WITH 1.2.3.beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Armitage View Post
    Oh, well, cool!
    Keep modding until you begin suffering from it, no more.

    Anyway my advice is to start adapting that march and engage submod to a final and better version.
    Probably you're right again. CA don't give a for gamers issues only if that corresponds with the eternal (more)greed for money/sales.
    No, I don't. I don't like to do half-works and just pass to another.

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