[SUBMOD: a Slower Paced DeI Campaign] TESTUDO v.1.7 + Custom Packs [upd: aug.09/20] - OUTDATED

[Jake Armitage]

Turtle Weights Light link is leading to some missing page at Mediafire for some reason right now...

yeah, fixed it.
it seems that sometimes mediafire doesn't suddenly like some files

[NorthernXY]

Got my economy "good" or better status, but it seems I can't maintain the size of army smaller states can. Massalia and Syracuse each field larger navies and armies combined.

Pretty much 10+ factions declared war on me within 30 turns, for what I can tell no reason. I'm fighting people who are 2+ regions away.

[Jake Armitage]

Well these are quite classic situations for any DeI campaign (submodded or not).

First: what packs and what difficulty are you playing with?

Then:
1) armies: testudo is meant to have a regional campaign more than a classic steamroll where you'll end conquering the world. AI factions are strong 'cause you'll have to earn every inch of land which leads to real war campaigns and not just winning a battle and erasing a faction
2) armies: I want the game to be difficult and players to think about what they are doing. The level into which 1.6 is, is completely playable by an hardcore player. I'm gonna lower some difficulties into next release but then I'll stop lowering them.
3) armies: most of the times when you fight against AI you'll have 20% of casualities while AI will be mostly wiped out. Which means that if you're tactically smart both in strat map movements and battles 1 of you army is 2 of AI's
4) loose: yeah sometimes you may loose a settlement or sacrifice it. never happened to me yet but I've been really near to that and honestly I don't see this as a negative feature. War is war, you can't always win
5) loose: yeah sometimes the campaign will turn impossible to recover. When you understand this then it's time to start a new one and learn from previous errors (and also hope to have more luck which is an essential part of any game, video or not)
6) diplomacy: you'll have to work on diplomacy right from the start. If you don't do that you'll end up in the situation you're in now. Pick allies and define enemies. You'll see that diplomacy won't crush you. Check 1st post images into campaign samples. At turn 200 I have both enemies and allies. I was playing Huge and had no problems both in defending and conquering. How is that possible? Work through diplomacy for not having more than 2 war fronts
7) difficulty: I repeat, this submod is meant for people who wants to gain a victory through time, choices and even luck. It is not unbalanced, it is not unfair but it requires a learning curve. There is always the possibility to play it on easy and use a light weight pack if you think this gameplay style doesn't suit you. Otherwise I don't know what others suggestions I can give you.

X) in my opinion a videogame is good when the player has to adapt to its rules and not when the player can just jump over some features 'cause he'll won anyway
Y) and a videogame is bad when it's unfair, when the AI will simply stomp you 'cause it is full of bonuses and you're full of maluses. But that's not Testudo's case

[asher237]

I've been looking to start a new Rome campaign. After reading and following your work for some time, I'm gonna give testudo the ole' college try. It looks amazing, Jake. I love a good, slow, long game.

[Jake Armitage]

you're welcome, waiting for your reports and suggestions

[asher237]

I am sure this is on my end but I seem to be missing textures on some units and faces/bodies on some characters. Forgive me if you have already stated but is Benjin's general's and Dardo's UMCentaurian Legions patch incompatible with Testudo?

Aside from that issue, I am really digging the pacing of Testudo. DeI Realism, while awesome was just a *tad* too fast for me.

[Jake Armitage]

If you're speaking about RPGu general's units then they are transparents 'cause I wrongly assigned some variants entries. Next release should fix it (and add quite a lot of new RPGu possibilities)
If you're referring to UMCenturion's mod I really can't say 'cause I've never downloaded it. It might be an issue from thi end, try to remove it in a new campaign and see what happens.

May I ask you what Testudo packs did you choose?

[asher237]

Medium 4 turns per year and as Rome (duh...my obsession). I removed the AAA generals mod by Benjin. Seems to be the case.

[Jake Armitage]

Benjin's packs work for me, maybe benjin's and UM aren't fully compatible, seems weird to me they aren't though.

[asher237]

57 turns in and things are moving slowly and beautifully. The only real territorial changes going on is Carthage losing Mastia to the Edetani and Some weird border wars between the minor anatolian states and Armenia. Sparta and Athens got uppity with the Makedonian kingdom and by turn 56, Sparta was a client state and Athens was occupied by Phillip II. Aside from the minor border wars in Hispania, all the occupational/client state changes seem to be because of the broader Ptolmaic and Selukid wars. I find this to be the largest change from vanilla DeI and it is awesome.

I finally pushed epiros out of the Italian peninsula and it seems Carthage may declare war against my ally in Syracuse. This is the pace I am looking for. Only thing I would prefer is *slightly* faster research times, but it seems I can modify that with the various turtle packs?

I really enjoy the politics heavy gameplay. I know it's a total war game but I can get by with minor skirmishes every so often and not global war 24/7. I have some time off the road (I travel for work) and this is just the diversion I need. Thank you, Jake!

[asher237]

I am using historical reforms as well...so I doubt I will make marian anytime soon. which is fine by me.

[Jake Armitage]

Glad you're enjoying it

I find this to be the largest change from vanilla DeI and it is awesome: pace is surely slower and stable (mostly due to strat movement and recruit limitations) but keep in mind that every campaign is more or less different, as it is for DeI. Seems the autoresolve script I did is working fine but I already modded a better version, though.
faster research times: sure, use the turtle pack you wish
global war 24/7: yeah, always hated that in every TW game, at some point you'll end fighting and fighting stacks and stacks. It's boring. In testudo you'll obviously have to fight quite a lot but many times you can have dozens of turns where you're planning things waiting for the right time/spot to strike properly
historical reforms: your choice but that pack is really... ultra huge... (honestly I think it is pretty useless, 600 and 900 turns for latest reforms are a nonesense). You can adjust reforms with turtle packs too. Check #2 post > changed dei script > reforms for a reform tab

Safe travels.

[asher237]

yeah, i am gonna use that heavy reforms pack rather than punish myself with historical reforms. though....i am a glutton for punishment, maybe not that much.

[Jake Armitage]

I agree, punishment is nice but it should be somehow balanced.
Older version of testudo, 1.4 mostly, were more punishing but at the end they were just uselessly stressful. They gave you pain without joy.
I think that next update (1.6.1) should be the at the right spot.

[asher237]

indeed! i look forward to it. 100 turns in and i am having an absolute blast.

[DominusEtDeus]

I decided to try out your mod Jake and I like the slow pace and challenge so far. But... well, my problem is with the roman barracks. Since this mod is very slow and tactical, the player has no time and money to build lvl2 auxiliary barracks. It would be better to include the socii units in the basic barracks or in the main building. What are your thoughts?

[Jake Armitage]

mmhhh... I get what you say but no, I don't think so.
If you want something in testudo you have to give something...
You want those fancy units? Well then you'll loose the slot, money and time required.

[leonardusius]

mmhhh... I get what you say but no, I don't think so.
If you want something in testudo you have to give something...
You want those fancy units? Well then you'll loose the slot, money and time required.

Without any doubt.

[DominusEtDeus]

Those arent some fancy units, those were levied allies of Rome historically. I never understood why u have to build those extra barracks just to get worse units but historically accurate. Nvm then, have to change it manually then. Great mod btw, im struggling with these bastard epiroteans. It really feels like "Pyrrhic wars". [emoji4]

[Jake Armitage]

yeah, "fancy units" was just to make an example, I didn't mean to be harsh, sorry.

Testudo is quite complex and there's a lot of work behind.
I'm mostly working, besides rebelancing, into adding new features rather that working on those I personally consider secondary (like getting units more easily).
And that's mostly 'cause DeI is already a fully worked and balanced mod.
Some of the Testudo features has to remain aligned to DeI, otherwise I'll need 5 years to do everything.
Hence, I need to keep some features fixed.

You'll have to build extra barracks 'cause you'll be facing a videogame choice: you want this or you want something else? To me DeI choice is correct.
The more the choices the more the game is interesting.