[SUBMOD: a Slower Paced DeI Campaign] TESTUDO v.1.7 + Custom Packs [upd: aug.09/20] - OUTDATED

[Jake Armitage]

@raven

I've taken a glance and well... what a nice campaign, here!
You're doing really well and seems to me you've perfectly understood how to play.
Speaking of RPGu use, politics, diplomacy and economy. Everything is in order.

I've added a couple of screenshots of your "unfogged" map and put them in the #1 post.
World seems pretty balanced, that's good. With next autoresolve's upadate it should be even better, hopefully.

[raven63]

This mod is insanely fun to play, thanks to Jake and all who helped make it. Two questions:

1) Anyone figure out why AI armies get stuck near neutral/allied settlements? I have a region in my current campaign where a bunch of armies are stuck. I tried turning show AI movements on and off but nothing happened.

2) This is more of a long term idea. I know some modders were looking into a peace script thing and related ideas. Currently the AI never accepts peace unless it is completely crushed. This is boring and dull, for example if you have a strong defensive position then the AI keeps crashing its armies repeatedly against your defensive position, for hundreds of years, really forever, until you or someone else kills it. Of course it's much better to sue for peace, re-build, consolidate etc, but that's hardcoded AI behavior which is impossible to change as far as I understand.

Another situation is AI vs. AI wars, where a small border dispute always results in total war, and one of the factions has to conquer the other. The game AI is pretty limited in this sense, and I'm curious to know if you think enforcing peace under certain triggers can work as a solution?

[Jake Armitage]

1) no, no one ever figured it out 'cause it comes from some hardcoded behaviour. I seriously lowered the CAI value which should "govern" this but it's not enough. The only thing doable is a sort of "move script" where you'll return back armies who are stucked.
I have plans to do this but in the far future

2) mostly the same answer of 1). I'll do something for this too. Nothing revolutionary but some more possibilities

Sadly this is a "total war" game and is mostly cenetered on perpetual clashes.
Hope that with time I'll be able to reduce this "total war" feeling.

[nikossaiz]

2) another serring but there is a mod for empire, imperial destroyer and a submod for it VDM. In this there is a script that make the ai more positive to piece according to its army strength compering to that of players. Its working extremely logical in numerous campaigns so far, if you want to take a look.

[Jake Armitage]

I just have m2tw and rome 2, I don't have any other total war game so i can't check them
would you please copy those scripts into a notepad file?

[nikossaiz]

Once a go home i will send them to you. In the midtime this is the othaurs thread that demonstrates his project. They use an external programm named walli to be able to count "points" the thing i believe you manage to do inside the game engine.
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...TROYER-project

[Jake Armitage]

seems interesting...
ok, I'm able to open the files so I can check what this guy actually did.
Thanks for the sugestion, this mod may come useful but I have to understand what he's actually doing...

[leonardusius]

2) another serring but there is a mod for empire, imperial destroyer and a submod for it VDM. In this there is a script that make the ai more positive to piece according to its army strength compering to that of players. Its working extremely logical in numerous campaigns so far, if you want to take a look.

Oh, yes ! Now I remember of this. Excellent ideas of those scripts ! Bad because many of them were .lua coded.

[leonardusius]

seems interesting...
ok, I'm able to open the files so I can check what this guy actually did.
Thanks for the sugestion, this mod may come useful but I have to understand what he's actually doing...

To spare me of researching all that stuff, what's the specific file to be open for ?

[Jake Armitage]

can't say, I just downloaded the mediafire pack and see there are some notepad/lua/luac files
so I warned nikossaiz that there was no need for him to copy/paste them (at least for now, I have no ide what that's about yet)

[leonardusius]

can't say, I just downloaded the mediafire pack and see there are some notepad/lua/luac files
so I warned nikossaiz that there was no need for him to copy/paste them (at least for now, I have no ide what that's about yet)

I think I'm remember......there is no WarDipScript script despite the fact it's in the list of scripts. So, it's coded by .lua engine. Back than I tried with a .lua decoder but fail.

[raven63]

Turn 600. I've finally taken my third province and stabilized the diplomacy

Somehow I got into this long war with Bactria and its allies which lasted for a good 30 years ( = 360 turns). Bactria brought elite pikes and cavalry, but my cataphracts wiped the floors with them on numerous occasions. The war ended when I sieged a minor Bactrian town, and they accepted peace (which is pretty cool, the town is not even in their home province).

I also had a long succession crisis, which caused constant political instabilities. Basically I kept getting a random 64 year old as faction leader, who then dies after a couple of years, and the game spawns another one. Is this a feature of one of the submods or DEI? It kept happening for a long time, until some kid in our faction came of age and became the new faction leader. Now I finally have someone young on the throne and he has three sons. I personally like this as a feature.

For the army I only used two fighting armies. One of them was almost all elite troops and took most of the keep but could easily win 2:1 odds. War is hard but looting is very lucrative, and you can upgrade your buildings after receiving a big lump sum. You do it all at once so you can maximize the benefit of using the civil administration intrigue.

For food I built farms everywhere, and always gave my RPGUs the agriculturist skill, which gives food. You need at least 4 extra food at all time to deal with increases in food consumption for whatever reasons.

[Jake Armitage]

Oh, man... turn 600...?
That's really nice to hear
You're beating any TW record here... you'll have to hit 1000 at this point...

Please send me a savegame of the current situation, I wanna check things around. Thx.
Wanna know, is the campaign still stable and without major lags?

Basically I kept getting a random 64 year old as faction leader
Yeah, I noticed too, once. It's a vanilla CA feature, not much I can do here, just remember it works this way and keep possible heirs in the family tree (there is also an usurp legacy intrigue that may come in handy)

until some kid in our faction came of age
Oh, nice, so sometimes the hardcoded mechanics aren't capable to kill every child in 12 tpy

For the army I only used two fighting armies
Yeah, if you're able to build a stable diplomacy (and so not having a 360° war) you'll be able to (slowly) smash enemies with half of their power.
That's the reason why I've added those slight units' penalties through the "timeline" feature.

looting
Mmhh, I may lower its values then

food
Maybe I set it a little too low and yes I always give that skill too to all my admin generals (not only to the land ones)

-------

Thanks raven, your reports are essential to me

[raven63]

Here is that savegame. I don't know how to attach in pm

[Jake Armitage]

Thanks
I've added a couple of campaign images into #1 post.
It is quite incredible to see that after 630 turns the major faction (rome) has 17 regions only.

It seems to me you're playing a sort of exemplar campaign.
Congrats, you're a chirurgical player, paying attention to everything.
Everything seems really fine to me and it's a really good thing, being you at turn 630...

questions:
1) maybe general's experience is a little too slow to gain?
2) same with growth/pop needed to gain building slots?
3) there is a need to increase base food based on imperium? It seems so to me, just a little.
4) the political balance is surely weighted towards 3rd party. It actually doesn't affect the game (since single other party influence is not giving effects) but it is unpleasant to see... I wonder if I'll find something to counter this

Please keep sending me savegames every 200 turn

[deeptrance83]

If it's a 12 turn/year game then that's only 52.5 years. That's not even a generation.

[nikossaiz]

@deeptrance83

not to sound like a smart* but It's almost 2 by the book ( but I get your point! )

[Jake Armitage]

If it's a 12 turn/year game then that's only 52.5 years. That's not even a generation.

mmhh...
besides that "50 years for a generation" which, honestly, is completely wrong, i get that 630\12 = 52.5 but i really can't get what you wanna say in terms of the videogame's gameplay:

1) a turn based game represents the passing of time and actions taken through turns.
you want realism? this means that in 4tpy campaign you'll move from rome to the galatian capital in turkey in 1 turn (an average of 20 km per day). is this good for gameplay? well no, it isn't.
2) how much a vanilla campaign lasts? between 100 and 300 turns, i would say.
which means, in a 4 tpy vanilla campaign, the years to conquer eveything go between 25 and 75 years. and after 50 raven 63 owns just 3 provinces
3) do you want a realistic timeline? then it means you have to play, let's say, 3 centuries ( from 300bc to 0 dc) to resemble the imperial growth of rome.
300 years means: 1200 turns in 4tpy and 3600 for 12tpy.
would everyone play this way? hell no

really, i get yor division is mathematically correct but it is just a mathematical abstraction to me. i don't see any relation to the actual videogame's gameplay.

speaking about gameplay's tpy possibilities, we have:

a) 2tpy, which i don't like at all 'cause characters will age too quickly and you won't have much time to enjoy them. and a year has 2 seasons which is quite weird to me as a time sensaton
b) 4tpy, which is overall good
c) 12 tpy, which is also overall good
d) 24tpy, which is quite a nonesense to me 'cause you'll really play with just 1\2 generations here

the best choice, to me, would be the possibility to play 8tpy (2 turns per season) but that's simply not possible 'cause it's bugged and season just won't rotate.

trying to do a sort of gameplay compensation, me and ivanpera did a kill script, which means that, since 35 years old, characters have a chanche to die every turn and as soon as they are 60 (if they survive) they'll most probably die.

[leonardusius]

Yeah, I'm for 1200 turns !

[Jake Armitage]

4 or 12 tpy?
hell man, wtf, send me a savegame immediately!