When should I use Guard mode?

[warchief_ryan]

When should I use it and when should I not?
SHould I not use it with some units?

[danes]

i think..
guard mode ON is ordering each individual to stay in their places and not surge forward in a melee.
goard mode OFF is the opposite.

so use guard when you want to keep unit cohesion.. (spear defence.. cav charge.. etc..) and dont use it when you want strong units to fight aggressively.. (norman knights in melee.. danish axemen.. etc) :hmmm:

[Oriellien]

When im defending a city I usually plug the gate (or wall breach) with infantry, thats when i use guard mode. Also for troops on walls defending against a siege tower or ladders.

[danes]

Oriellien, on the walls.. if you have heavy infantry on defence, wouldnt you want them OFF guard mode? so they dont just stand around while enemy infantry surging up is already fighting with other elements of their unit?

[zerathule]

I've run tests on this matter, and i realised that turning guard mode of was always better.
I tried with pikes and halbardiers vs cavalry, infantry and pikes/halbardiers. Each time the outcome was better with guard mode of.
I dont have numbers but for example vs heavy cav i would have lost the fight in 1 vs 1 with a lot of units upgraded to match the price of cav if in guard mode, but win it easyly with guard mode off.
Maybe i did something wrong, but without guard mode i could actually kill lancers with french pikemen.

[chris watton]

Guard mode is good for protecting the (more devastating) archers, I use them in front of the archers in both M2 and RTW in a /-\ formation (or something vagely similar), with archers protected at the front and sides.
Seems to work a treat (especially if when playing RTW, you have Urban Cohorts protecting!) For M2, I use dismounted English Knights in guard mode, works for all enemies, except of course the Mongols and Timurids!

[Metellus]

I use guard mode almost always ON with my line infantry to prevent them pursuing routed opposing infantry, because they never catch them (use cav for that) and its annoying to have to tell them to pull back into line. Did this in RTW after I had too many of my prestigious urban cohorts running halfway across the map in pursuit of some routers, only to find themselves then cut off and cut to pieces. But I think I'll try with off now, particularly if I want the unit to be aggressive. Wasn't aware there was a difference with regard to how fully engaged the unit becomes.

[Kinch]

Guard mode doesn't work the way it did in RTW. Units no longer fight as a formation but much more as individuals. So actually they fight worse in guard mode and I almost never use it. Pursuing routing enemies initially is also nice feature as it actually helps causing mass routing as by simple placing unit close to flank of already engaged in combat You can cause it's morale to waver .

Most cases of using by mode by me are those when i order it to my firing units just so they didn't move and mix with other units if enemy is moving out of their firing distance.

[NimChief]

You use Guard Mode to stop your men from chasing fleeing troops.

Turn it on when on a hill, castle or river. Stops them from levaing strategic positions. Simple.

[Reiver]

You use Guard Mode to stop your men from chasing fleeing troops.
Turn it on when on a hill, castle or river. Stops them from levaing strategic positions. Simple.

Did you even bother to read the rest of the thread? It keeps them more in formation but due to the animation system it doesn't work as well as it used to.
Fighting on walls I don't know. The whole siege thing is an uncoordinated, laboured mess most of the time with really dodgy pathfinding and units ignoring orders (especially on the walls). With peasants and crossbowmen beating my dismounted feudal knights on the ramparts I don't think there's any real order or sense to it.

[Over and Out....]

Did you even bother to read the rest of the thread? It keeps them more in formation but due to the animation system it doesn't work as well as it used to.
Fighting on walls I don't know. The whole siege thing is an uncoordinated, laboured mess most of the time with really dodgy pathfinding and units ignoring orders (especially on the walls). With peasants and crossbowmen beating my dismounted feudal knights on the ramparts I don't think there's any real order or sense to it.

Actually he is right. When you have guard mode on the men will keep their position after the enemy routs. You could also use halt but with gurad mode you can concentrate on something else. This works (as he said) in bridge battles and when you have to defend with low numbers and hence need to keep your lines.

But yeah, they aren't as agressive so don't use it when you just need to kill the enemy. Hopefully you got my point.

EDIT: And also what Mikelus said. It's a must in those situations.

-Topi-

[aves]

In my post patch games, guard mode seems to have 2 purposes

A) stay put

B) try to stay in formation

Often when charging or trading missile fire, you'd rather have a unit engage as many people as possible in combat... so guard is a bad idea... and you want them to have the quickest pursuit, guard still a bad idea. In general, melee units using swords, axes, or short spears that are charging another inferior unit should not be in guard mode... you want to get into as many 1 on 1 fights as possible within the clash.

It is also my experience that polearm units in a defensive posture should be in guard mode. Their unit cohesion is their strength. These units should be in guard mode as you want them to keep the wall of spikes/halberds/pikes/spears together so that they can be an effective defensive unit. You also shouldn't want them pursuing without orders, as many of these units will get cut to ribbons if they break formation and then get flanked.

All I have is in-game experience, I've not sat down and playtested for hours with a stopwatch and spreadsheet, so I can't guarantee the accuracy of the above impressions, but I do believe them to be true

[centrelink4]

It is also my experience that polearm units in a defensive posture should be in guard mode. Their unit cohesion is their strength. These units should be in guard mode as you want them to keep the wall of spikes/halberds/pikes/spears together so that they can be an effective defensive unit. You also shouldn't want them pursuing without orders, as many of these units will get cut to ribbons if they break formation and then get flanked.

It doesnt seem to work right for me.

When you talk about pikes type unit there really very different to a spear armed unit and guard works different.

Pikes with guard mode on form into there hedgehog kind of thing with a man kneeling at the front but dont actually do much fighting at all, without it on they stand up and fight.

So guard mode usually spells a big loss for pikes as enemies will be held up for a second taking no casualites but then they will get in and switch the pikes to swords (so no free kills), un guard mode pikes will both hold up the enemy and kill a fair few but will move out of position and be flanked.

I was rather surprised as pikes start in guard mode and look formidable (so I had never switched them off guard mode) but lose badly and seemed a very pointless unit.

When you take guard mode off they remind me of Rome phalanx type units and get stuck into the fighting ok for a 150 buck unit and if you out number the enemy (in units terms) and can get them to fight one unit on one unit will crunch alot of more expensive troops.

I rather think its not supposed to work like that, that you are supposed to actively manuever pikes around individually and be constantly micormanaging them, I do more mucking round with pikes then I do with spears or sword units. They should be, to my mind, a more formation based unit that should do best lined up and support appropriately.

[Mikelus Trento]

I also put my archers in guard mode *IF* I have them in the "behind the infantry line" position and want them to remain there as the enemy charges.

[Sammyboi]

Also you can put archers/other missile units into guard mode and it means they wont move to get a shot at targets, they'll stay put even if the targets moves out of range. For example if you were firing at an enemy unit at the very extreme of your range and their first rank died, your archers might now not be able to reach them and would stop firing. With guard mode off they would walk forward a few paces and start firing again. Either mode can be appropriate, depending on your situation.

[Lord Phoenix]

Yeah Guard Mode is good for being able to chose targets for stationary archers. Like calvary running behind the enemy walls, who will eventually run out of range. If you don't have the archers in guard mode and you tell them to shoot at them while they are in range, they will chase after to try to get a shot once they move out of range, which can lead your archers right up to the walls. But while in guard mode, they will shoot at them til they are out of range, and then go back to autoattacking anything in range if you have the autofire on.

[Proximus]

Play it nice lads, no name calling please.

[Lavastein]

When should I use it and when should I not?
SHould I not use it with some units?

if your fighting heavy forces you need to place your inf on guiard mode. What tends to happen is when an enemy unit routes your men follow it to the end of the map. I sometimes dont see this because im busy using my cav to flank and attack other units. I suggest placing every unit in guard mode except pike units. Pike units walk really slow and are very bad in guard mode because they sit their in their little phalanx like formation not fighting.

Im telling you from experience mate. DO NOT KEEP PIKES IN GUARD MODE. I know exactly what happens when they are in it. I repeat, DO NOT KEEP PIKEMEN ON GURAD MODE.

[danes]

Im telling you from experience mate. DO NOT KEEP PIKES IN GUARD MODE. I know exactly what happens when they are in it. I repeat, DO NOT KEEP PIKEMEN ON GURAD MODE.

Well pikes on guard mode is useful for one thing. which is if the pikes will be on the receiving end of a frontal cav charge. thats what they're there for i think. problem is lots of people fell in love with RTW silvershield pikemen or spartan hoplites. .etc.. which is not applicable in this game.

anyway, pikemen, on guard mode, bracing, would repel a cav charge

[Killergold88]

Im telling you from experience mate. DO NOT KEEP PIKES IN GUARD MODE. I know exactly what happens when they are in it. I repeat, DO NOT KEEP PIKEMEN ON GURAD MODE.

Must not have good experience then...
I love pikemen... mostly because if used right the ancient Phalanx crushes medieval armies... so when the enemy charges (especially cav units) they hit your pikes and some die others get stuck... now move another unit around back and start a flank (another pike unit causes the least casualties on your side from what ive seen) dont have another unit... ok either once the charge is done issue an attack order, wait till another unit is free, or deselct gaurd mode if you wish... i have no problem with pikemen killing units in gaurd mode

as for when to use gaurd mode... i use it simply to keep defensive positions or when im outnumber by a large margine, just so my units dont go storming after the other routing units... (thats for my free cav units... if i have any) most of the time im on offense anyhow, even in deffence battles