ceasefire negotiations for tens of thousands of florins

**danes** · December 20, 2006, 07:12 PM

hi guys, just confirming if this is normal.

i just patched to v1.1 and played 1 of my earlier Sicily saved games again.. After being at war with two factions for just 5-10 turns and after only engaging and winning in naval battles.. no land battles at all.. i tried negotiated ceasefire with them.. and was able to demand thath they pay me the following:

byzantium: ceasefire and give me 30,000f
Venice: ceasefire and give me 25,000f

i'm still just on turn 45 vanilla v1.1! and it seems this would totally bankrupt both factions and give me financial supremacy after just a few naval engagements. is this a diplomacy bug or a feature? I havent had such a "favorable" ceasefire agreement from such a piddling number of engagements.

**DavidtheDuke** · December 20, 2006, 07:14 PM

The whole idea they would give you that much can only be based on you had vast military forces, but I bet that wasn't hte case, and simply flawed diplomacy. Have you tried Shaba's diplomacy mod?

**danes** · December 20, 2006, 07:50 PM

I did think about that, but my army isnt that huge.. just "well-lead"

. And most of it's busy fighting the moors on the other end of the campaign map. So only my navy was trying to fend off the possibly huge venetian and byzantine invasions.

In the diplomacy screen my strength does show up as "Supreme". I notice this modifier increases almost everytime I successfully ally another faction (im currently allied to 4 factions in the said game) and so is not necessarily a measure of my own faction's strength.

So yeah that modifier would affect diplomacy and that "may" be the reason for the hugely favorable ceasefire terms. But in any case, those terms are still counterintuitive since any person could look at the map and see that my italian holdings were so undefended against them and I was just praying they bite at at ceasfire.:hmmm:

**Nebuchadnezzar** · December 20, 2006, 07:51 PM

Well, diplomacy isn't crash hot but this doesn't appear normal. It is possible that its an effect of the saved game from version 1.

With all updates its always better to start a new campaign. I don't think CA have confirmed whether the patch is save game compatible from version 1 even if you can load a V1 game its no indication it is in fact compatible.

Just for the record, I haven't been able to experience any noticeable improvement from the vanilla "Dogs of War" diplomacy using any mods as yet unfortunately.

**Shazbot** · December 20, 2006, 08:29 PM

I don't see how gaining 55,000 floins can be a bad thing...

**Spiff** · December 20, 2006, 08:39 PM

Its not so much a bad thing as it is an unreasonable thing. When you play the game you expect your opponents to act reasonably similar to how a fellow human would react given the available information.

In any case, i would also recommend Shaba's diplomacy mod, it seems to freshen up the game somewhat.

**danes** · December 20, 2006, 08:50 PM

right on spiff.

in any case a friend pointed out that its possible that neither venice nor byzantium had any spies in my italian holdings (improbable but possible) and since they could only see my relative "strength" in the diplomacy screen, they would not have intelligence on my troop positions within the penninsula. So they were in fact blind to my weakness. With this the AI may have decided to better play safe than possibly be on the receiving end of an invasion in their own lands... (since my navy is winning)

well.. I could say that this is possible.. and would then be totally logical... so did CA say if the AI factions also rely on their own "locally visible window of intelligence" to make local decisions? they cant see everything and therefore are prone to make stupid decisions based on bad intel? (THEY THOUGHT I HAD WMDs IN ITALY! hahahah)

**Aristocrat** · December 20, 2006, 09:08 PM

The AI definitely acts on what is in it's line of sight.
If you, for example, block off every entry into your lands, (with forts and/or units), this stopping their troops and agents getting in, they rarely, if ever, launch an attack in my experience, as they cannot get a look at your army and garrison size with their pesky spies and merchants.

So this should carry over to diplomacy as well. (I hope).

**danes** · December 20, 2006, 09:27 PM

If this is true as Aristocrat suggested, then it may be a viable strategy to shore up big alliances.. thus increasing your perceived strength.. tighten security in your lands.. then aggressively war on other factions.. winning maybe naval battles and minor skirmishes.. and attempt ceasefire resolutions while they're blind.. this could theoretically net you huge sums of money. (ive reached sicilian chivalric knights in 50 turns with the money i got from this.)

of course its a delicate tactic and you have to choose your opponents but still this could be viable. sort of like psychological warfare on AI.

**Al-Masri** · December 20, 2006, 09:28 PM

My problem is that THEY demand thousands of florins from me. Even though I whipped their forces several times any they are only down to 1 province. Shaba's mod did not seem to help much there.

**Daneboy** · December 21, 2006, 01:48 AM

I was also able to squeze the '¤**/ Scotts for first 3000, then 5000 and then 10 000 florins. It must be a bug.

**AngryTitusPullo** · December 21, 2006, 01:54 AM

I definately need to try that. I have always offered the AI money to cease hostilities eventhough I'm strong (midway campaign now circa 1200 AD using 1tpy) everyone seems to want war with me (even 2 province left Portugese).

Nothing much, just blockading my ports every now and then but when I offered money and ceasefire just to resume trade they reject !!!!!

Maybe I should demand them money instead...

**sera** · December 21, 2006, 02:23 AM

The AI should never give out such large one time sums, but rather pay out over several turns.

**Strand92** · December 21, 2006, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by sera

The AI should never give out such large one time sums, but rather pay out over several turns.

Some people say it's about how good repution u have, for example in my danish campaign i was allied to allmost every faction in europe. And then France attacked me while we was allied so his reptution went to untrustworhty. While mine was reliable (better then mixed) so i defeted his army and then he came and asked for ceasfire. and it was very generouse, so i counter suggest that he should give region: caen that he just had taken from England. And it was still very generous and he accepted. And since he had attacked me before and HRE and England he went excommunicated. So I simply called a crusade on Paris so whole europe turned against them. And it worked. I am using LTC 1.1, Shaba Wangy's diplomecy mod and patch 1.1. So this may not have happned in vanilla but i still thinks it has to do with ur and their repution to do. But that's just my opinion.

**AcidJiles** · December 21, 2006, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by danes

hi guys, just confirming if this is normal.

i just patched to v1.1 and played 1 of my earlier Sicily saved games again.. After being at war with two factions for just 5-10 turns and after only engaging and winning in naval battles.. no land battles at all.. i tried negotiated ceasefire with them.. and was able to demand thath they pay me the following:

byzantium: ceasefire and give me 30,000f
Venice: ceasefire and give me 25,000f

i'm still just on turn 45 vanilla v1.1! and it seems this would totally bankrupt both factions and give me financial supremacy after just a few naval engagements. is this a diplomacy bug or a feature? I havent had such a "favorable" ceasefire agreement from such a piddling number of engagements.

for me when i have twice their military they expect me to pay them loads for a ceasefire

**Reiver** · December 21, 2006, 09:42 AM

The Hungarians wanted 80000 for a ceasefire (they came to me). I counter offered just a ceasefire which the diplomatic scren said was very unfair (can't remeber what the exact words were). The Pope refused to take 300000 for a reconcilliation. Russia (who if you added up all their land forces has about two and a half stacks (inc. garrison units) declared war on me by blockading Marakesh. Great diplomatic AI

**Strand92** · December 21, 2006, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Reiver

The Hungarians wanted 80000 for a ceasefire (they came to me). I counter offered just a ceasefire which the diplomatic scren said was very unfair (can't remeber what the exact words were). The Pope refused to take 300000 for a reconcilliation. Russia (who if you added up all their land forces has about two and a half stacks (inc. garrison units) declared war on me by blockading Marakesh. Great diplomatic AI

Yeah the diplomacy is broken i agree but can u please post a pic of ur repution or say what repution u got. And u should really try Shaba Wangy's diplomacy mod, it fixes backstabbig and force the ai (in most cases) to stay allied at least 30 turns. I have never had any of that unrealistic suggestions by the ai. On the other hand i have squesed out the ai for their last coins and very rare cases i have demanded like 20000 florins if they were rich and say: accept or we will attack. And they suggested 15000 and "please dont attack". I might sound like a fan boy but I am not, I dont think this the highest priority CA should fix. I would more like to see that they fix the battle maps bug insteed. And this is my first game of the TW series so i cant compare to any other version to say if they have actouly improwed the diplomacy. But in my opinion it's OK with Shaba Wangy's mod.