General
The Seleucid army, as a successor army, has it's base on the armies of Phillip and Alexander. The core Seleucid army was divided into two big divisions, the guard regiment, and the reservists/regulars. The core army filled by military settlers, mainly Greeks and also some Thracians, Medes and Jews. They granted land, in return of military service.
The core army was supplemented by units from vassal people throughout the kingdom (mainly lights) and also various mercenaries. Bellow you can see a nice table taken from Bar-Kochva's Maccabaeus, concerning the Daphne parade,battle of Raphia and battle of Magnesia, a very good example to see the above divisions and also many more that i will explain bellow:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Guard units were of very high degree of discipline and in constant readiness while "reservists/regulars" called to arms when the empire was at war. In these preview we will mainly present the core Seleucid army, leaving vassals and mercenaries for another.
Manpower and recruitment
As we said before, the core Seleucid army consisting from the Guard division and the reservists, filled solely by the various military settlers settled in Asia by Alexander, Seleucus Nicator, Antiochos Soter and others. Nowadays those settlers through the Seleucid empire are used to called "katoikoi" based on a fragment found in Magnesia of Asia minor but nowhere else, despite the largest number of settlers lived in Syria and Babylonia. The recruitment potential of those "katoikies" (military settlements) were approximately 44.000 phalangites, 3.000 semi-heavy inf, and 8.500 heavy cavalry. More specifcally: Syria-essopotamia give about 25.000 phalangites and 3.500 cavalry, eastern provinces(mainly Media and Persis) gave 11.000 phalangites, 3.000 semi-heavy inf and 4.500-5.000 cavalry and Asia Minor(Phrygia, Lydia) 8.000 phalangites and 500 cavalry.
The guard regiments were recruited by selected military settlers for their youth and physical strength who were trained in the Grand military school of Apameia. After they finished their training they are at king's disposal by following him everywhere. After certain years serving in the Guard, they retired and joined the "reservists" units.
So the settlers not selected for serving in the Guard and those who retired from it, consists the "reservists/regulars" units.
The indigenous population who judged capable of joining the army consists the light units supplemented the settler's army, called by the Greeks pantodapoi.
The population classes for our manpower system for the Seleucids will be the following:
-Katoikoi Epigonoi (Epigonoi means progeny-successor. They are the younger settlers at the prime of their age)
-Katoikoi (The military settlers)
-Pantodapoi Epistratoi (Those are the indigenous people judged capable of serving the army. Epistartoi means "those who called to arms")
-Pantodapoi (The indigenous population of a region)
UNITS
Units of the Royal guard:
Agema Heavy cavalry unit consisted of Medes who enjoyed the status of the military settlers. They numbered 1000 men strong. After the fall of Media to the Parthians, this unit recruited by Thessalian military settlers. This unit acompany the king along with Hetairoi. A very interesting suggestion has been made to explain why a unit of foreign to the dynasty people, consists the king's guard and why 2 royal guards existed (Agema and Hetairoi). The suggestion is (a very convincing one in my opinion) that when Seleucus Nicator first occupy his lost by Antigonus Monopthalmus territories, he didn't have at his disposal a capable number of Macedonian settlers and he forced to rely on the indigenous Medes who expelled in cavalry tradition. After the victory at Ipsus he had big number of Macedonians under his service and he could finally made a royal guard unit consisted from Macedonians (Hetairoi), but he couldn't just dispand or lower their rank to those who served him so well for many time. So the Seleucid reached to have 2 royal guard cavalry units. (recruited from Pantodapoi Epistratoi pool)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Hetairoi
The Macedonian heavy cavalry royal guard of the Seleucid king which also count 1000 men strong (see above on the Agema description about why two king's guard units existed). (Recruited from Katoikoi Epigonoi pool)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Argyraspides (Phalangite outfit)The guard phalanx unit of the Seleucids. Recruited from military settlers at the prime of their age. Argyraspides, like the hypaspists of Alexander and the peltasts of the Antigonids, was a "hybrid", multipurpose unit able to fight in phalanx formation (mainly in pitched battles) and as crack assault units with sword and javelins or shorter spears when circumstanses require that(like seiges or battles in mountainous terrain). They number 10000 men strong. Polybius in some cases named them "peltasts" (like the forced march of the 10000 petlasts in Baktria) because he occassionaly uses Antigonid terminology on the Seleucid army (the equal unit to Argyraspides were Peltasts in the Antigonid Macedon). (Recruited from Katoikoi Epigonoi pool).
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Argyraspides (Peltast outfit)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Hypaspistae (phalangite outfit)
Although the term Hypaspists in the period after Alexander doesn't refer to any fighting unit, but mainly to king's friends or high ranked officials (like in Antigonid Macedon), Bar Kochva suggests the the Hypaspists in the Seleucid army were the crack battalion of the Argyraspides consisted the 1/5 of them aka 2000 men. (Recruited from Katoikoi Epigonoi pool).
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Hypaspistae (Heavy hoplite outfit)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Units of the Reserve:
Phalanx This unit is the main battle unit of the Seleucid empire. They were heavy infantry of pikemen who their "official" name was "Phalanx" or "Macedonians". Macedonians not because of their ethnicity (because they consisted by many other Greeks too) but because their armament and their way of fighting. They were military settlers obligued to fight for the king in war and they form the backbone of the Seleucid army. Later on at the Daphne parade the name Chalkaspides appears for them by Polybious, but we will discuss for them later on the reform units. (Also some suggested that a broken fragment from Polybious refers to another contigent of the phalanx the Chrysaspidai but this remains doubtfull). (Recruited from Katoikoi pool).
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Thrakes In Persis, a number of 3000 military settlers were of Thrakian origin and they retain their armament, equipment and way of fighting, as semi-heavy infantry, with Thrakian pelta shields (later thyreos shields) javelins and falx/sica. (Recruited from Katoikoi pool).
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Thrakes Hippakontistai Again recruited from Thrakian katoikoi from Persis, fighting as light cavalry with a thrusting spear, javelins and thyreos shield. (Recruited from Katoikoi pool)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Xystophoroi As the name suggests, they carry the xyston cavalry spear, no shields. Recruited from Greek settlers. (Recruited from Katoikoi pool)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Thessaloi Xystophoroi Thessalian settlers, due to their heritage, form some of the best cavalry contigens. Eventually they form the hole Agema when the upper satrapies fell into Parthians. They recruited from the "Larissa Ad Orontes" in Syria a Thessalian colony from the early hellenistic period. (Recruited from Katoikoi pool)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Medians
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Elephantes Kataphraktoi Indikoi
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Reformed Units
Hetairoi
After Antiochus the Great "Anabasis" where he encountered the combat style of Parthian and Baktrian cataphracts, he made extensive cavalry reforms imitating that style. Here the Hetairoi after the cataphract reforms.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Agema The Agema already fought in cataphract-like style although after the Antiocus III reforms they re-armed with the best armour available.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Kataphractoi After Anntiocus III reforms a big proportion of the Seleucid cavalry re-armed in cataphract style. Although their charges were irresistible and their amour value very high, because of their weight they lack in speed and maneuverability as long as they are more vulnerable to flanking attacks.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
(Western Provinces)(Eastern Provinces)
Lonchophoroi After the Celtic invasion in Hellas and the return of Pyrrhus from Italy, shielded cavalry make its appearence in the Hellenistic world. Some kingdoms adopt almost entirely the cavalry shield while others (like Seleucids) seems to be less affected.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Thorakitae Argyraspides At the Daphne parade 5000 men armed in thorakitae style are reported by Polybious, who called them as "armed in the roman fashion". Because at Daphne only 5000 of the Argyraspides were present (out of 10000), many historians made the speculation that half of the Argyraspides regiment were armed and trained on the thorakitai style.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Chalkaspides The phalanx of Antiochus Epiphanes was composed of chalkaspides, in addition to the argyraspides (Polyb. 30.25.5:
I Mace. 6.39). They are reported at the Daphne procession counting 5000 men.
I want to encourage the threads visitors to spent some time reading the descriptions and the details in M@x's post (OP) because all these details will play an important role to gameplay design. Almost all historic data displayed are simulated in one way or another in gameplay with many inovative mechanisms that we hope will give Hellenic factions (and the others as well) a unique gameplay experience
Finally some units to see!! lovely roster guys. Very well presented and informative. Just a question: the pikes shield is a new model? or is it the vanila aspis shield for hoplites?
really nice looking pikes there, especially those shields
I´d love to know how you did that, did you enlarge the pike shield,
reduce an aspis or used something completely different?
BTW how did you get the pikes to look this awesome without clipping?
Looks nearly the same as my submod
Did you also use the plike_ready_line_1_v1.meta for all the PIKE_FRONT_READY metadata slots?
I at first contemplated also only using the corresponding anim file,
but I decided against it because it made them totally synced
Anyways
Best regards
Edit: BTW I just noticed you have the 4th row also with pikes down, can those guys also attack?
Last edited by Maetharin; January 10, 2017 at 05:57 PM.
Max had done extensive work both on Vm's and animation.
For your question about 4th row yes they have their pikes down but they do not attack. There is no such animation for them. In any case it is not noticeable during battle
Last edited by M@x1mus; January 11, 2017 at 04:30 AM.
Great job, everyone, and Max espcially- of course!
"Pompeius, after having finished the war against Mithridates, when he went to call at the house of Poseidonios, the famous teacher of philosophy, forbade the lictor to knock at the door, as was the usual custom, and he, to whom both the eastern and the western world had yielded submission, ordered the fasces to be lowered before the door of science."
Really good job guys!!Well done.To know that Maximus and phalangitis is here i sure this mod is gonna be awesome!!(Well from the Hellenic Factions,cause i know thats what you are mainly if not only deal with)
Really good job guys!!Well done.To know that Maximus and phalangitis is here i sure this mod is gonna be awesome!!(Well from the Hellenic Factions,cause i know thats what you are mainly if not only deal with)
That's exactly my thoughts!
Glad to see the Hellenika boys continue work on our ancestors!
Just one question guys, have you think of using the IA map?
Last edited by Thyra13; January 25, 2017 at 01:52 PM.
[PREVIEW] Seleucids
(Eastern Provinces)
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Originally Posted by Ampraciotis
