Thread: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests

  1. #7281
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Hey guys,

    What an amazing job on this update - thank you.

    How significant is the change - "Slightly increase morale penalty for exposed flanks and rear attacks"?

    In my campaign as Media Atropatkan, I noticed that it is too hard to route a fairly weaker army with much weaker general. It either takes too long to route them, or the numbers advantage plays too big of a role for them. I am playing on normal battle difficulty so there's no advantage for the AI army.

    I know the mod was probably designed this way (to make battles last longer), but my elite units should not have any trouble routing average forces and should make quicker work of them. I feel the overall morale for average units is too high. They seem to fight too long - and my elite cavalry charges from the rear don't have enough morale impact (unless it's a direct 2v1 advantage). Maybe the general's morale effect on the enemy army should be greater? Especially for elite generals. I never see those mass routes from a well placed cavalry charge, like in Rome 1. Those are satisfying and I miss them. The battles are often a grindfest, even when you know you're gonna win.

    Also, one of the biggest problems is the numbers advantage is too exaggerated. Numbers always beats quality. 1 elite army + elite general can't defeat 2 average armies. Which I feel is detrimental to the gameplay. I want to take risks and invade enemy territory with my best general - but you just know the AI will attack you with 2 armies which means death. So you have to play conservative and always have the numbers advantage before invading, despite quality of troops. It makes the game, especially the battles less tactical, as it becomes about who has greater resources, and not about who's the better tactician on the actual battlefield.

    Somehow it just doesn't feel right IMO. I want my elite armies to act like an elite army and shred the enemy, no matter how many numbers they throw at you. Like Sun Tzu said "In war, numbers alone confer no advantage."

    It's so much fun when you can sit on the battlefield with a truly elite army and fend off attackers from all directions.

    After all, we can't field infinite elite armies anyway due to the population class system. Generally I think the morale disparity should be greater based on quality of troop, and I feel routing should have more of a "chain effect" on the entire army. Perhaps a simple stat fix could address this?

    Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

  2. #7282
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    You might want to join our discord for some tips on tactics, people with elite armies would plow through half of Europe with one stack (done by one of guys there) and you can just destroy most of AI even up to 1:3 ratio. Numbers never bit quality but also you can't just neglect strategy side of battles and come with just one stack hoping it will win in every situation.

    Morale disparity if anything could be even lower at the moment, this is due to how bad % system of bonuses in Rome 2 is. Basically, units with high morale benefit even more from % based bonuses, despite elites in theory already being "maxed" in terms of morale. If you make these values even more apart, it just makes each turn easier and easier as your elite units get better disproportionately to how it should work. Similar applies to stuff like armour upgrades, elites should not even get them since in theory they already use best armours but with how game works, they benefit most out of it.
    In case of morale penalties on their own, rear attack itself is -29 to morale, flank penalty is almost always applied with it to additional -8. This means a total of -37 morale before we start adding all other penalties applied together like for total deaths, recent deaths, being under fire, fatigue, enemies nearby, having exposed flanks and more. To put numbers in more context, a unit that lost 20% of soldiers, is tired, lost 10% of soldiers over last 60 seconds and is rear charges gets this: -24 from 20% casualties, -4 from being tired, -4 from 10% of casualties, -29 from rear charge = -66 morale, and these are overal light penalties, which already exceed base morale of any elite (excluding few fanatic units) unit in the mod.

    Long story short, elite armies do shread anything in their path but you must also take into account they are now much more balanced and harder to abuse, which still can be done. Now, even in late game, elite stats dont stack such crazy bonuses and still give you a challange.

    Routing is all about chain routing, after certain threshold is it even set to fully rout enemy army. Like I said, please check our discord, people will guide you how to do battles better as with trully elite stack, it is not possible to lose to AI. If you cant beat 2 AI armies, you are doing something wrong.
    Last edited by KAM 2150; March 09, 2021 at 04:06 PM.
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  3. #7283
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Thanks for the detailed response. I will definitely check out the discord.

    Perhaps my wording was too strong when I said numbers always beats quality - what I meant specifically is that numbers seems to play too big of an advantage (at times) when the disparity between troops is fairly high. The reason I say this is because I recall a couple of battles during my Median campaign that stood out. The first battle - I was 100% sure I would win easily, but somehow the AI's average troops with superior numbers defeated my faction leader's army of mostly elite units, and my faction leader is basically maxed out while the enemy general was only 1 star with around 7-10 units of reinforcements to backup his main army. He didn't really surround or flank my army successfully at all, but just kept pushing troops and reinforcements into the main battle line. Granted, my army basically fought to the bloody death, but I was genuinely surprised that his troops were just not routing after a prolonged melee. Perhaps the stamina effect had a big influence on the battle, as I don't always pay too much attention to it. Or perhaps their troops were triple silver/gold chevron and I didn't notice that - I've seen a lot of silver/gold chevron AI armies in this campaign.

    There was another battle where the AI had mostly medium tier phalanx troops while I had the Vazraka Sparabara as my main battle line holding them in place while my heavy shock cav were hitting them from behind repeatedly. He had the numbers advantage again (even after I wiped his cav) but his engaged phalanx units were withstanding my rear charges easily. I do think the phalanx units were slanted while engaged (as it sometimes happens), maybe that played a factor in negating the full charge effect? I should also mention I play with 'faster movement' and 'better spotting range' submods, but I don't think that would affect this would it?

    I also watched many of JackieFish's youtube videos of DEI battles and he also says that in DEI the numbers advantages is quite significant. As soon as he said that I knew exactly what he meant.

    Maybe us players of the older total war games , especially Rome 1, just need to adjust. But I will play closer attention to this from now on. I know there are some combat-related submods so perhaps you can comment on them in relation to this issue.

    Again thanks for the response and amazing work on this mod.

    Cheers

  4. #7284
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    The main issue is early game vs late game balance. For example when we had quality more prominent, it ended with all battles being player losing 100-150 men in 5-10 minute battles. This is due to how bonuses stack overtime and how strong they make elite units in the late game. Media does not have good troops to hold the line so in your case the longer battle is, the worse your troops will get as your main strength are cavalry and ranged units. Check our discord for tips on how to stack your troops better, there is a guy who can nearly double all stats on his units by turn 50.

    You can also try this file, I made certain morale penalties higher and made all heavy/elite units have a bit better bonuses vs infantry/cav.
    https://www.mediafire.com/file/vpuz0...ites.pack/file
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  5. #7285

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Hi there, new DeI player here. First off, thanks for making this amazing mod, I'm enjoying Rome 2 for the first time since I purchased it many years ago.

    I'm currently playing a grand campaign as Roma on H/N difficulty. Overall, the experience is quite smooth save for some crashes to desktop and the UI bugging out and requiring a reload. The crashes seem to happen most frequently when attempting to start a large battle. The only other mod besides DeI I'm using is "better children", seems unlikely to be the culprit. I'm playing the steam version if that makes any difference.

    Aside from that, the biggest issue for me currently is that the bigger the enemy empires, the harder they seem to fall. Smaller AI factions like Gallic barbarians for example seem to function quite well, they field 2 or even 3 stacks and use them agressively. Carthage on the other hand, seems to have no armies at all after I beat 2 battered half stacks in Sicily. The fighting on the island was very vicious when I first landed with the Ai using all of its fleets to attack my newly captured cities from all sides. But after this, nothing really happened. I used spies to scout almost all of north Africa, no field armies to be seen anywhere. I even waited about 10 turns before attacking the city of Carthage itself, to see if they Ai would muster anything against me but nothing happened. Supposedly the balance of power (in the diplomacy screen) is still in their favour but there are no armies or even fleets to be seen.

    In my previous campaign as the Seleukidai, the same happened when I tried to have a final showdown of sorts against Roma, By the time I saw any semblance of resistance, the Ai Roma had lost more than half its territory and might eventually have been unable to afford new/existing armies. After this anti-climactic ending to the campaign I decided to start a new one as Roma on hard, hoping that would make a difference, but Carthage seems to have the same issue at the moment.

    Is this also an issue with vanilla Rome 2 AI, bad luck, or perhaps something else?

    I can't edit my post, so I hope you'll excuse the double post. I have located the Carthaginian army, it seems to be just sitting there as seen in this screenshot. I suspect this happened with Roma in my last campaign as well, is there any way to fix this apparent passiveness in the larger factions? Restart at very hard or some sort of submod perhaps, or it it simply something unfixable as part of Rome 2?

    I attempted to insert the image here, but that doesn't seem to work, anyway here is a link:

    https://imgshare.io/image/carthage.pODo1n
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; April 18, 2022 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Double posting

  6. #7286

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Hello there,
    I feel like some of the faces of the Arevaci units look kind of out of place. I'm talking about the 2 arab/indian looking ones on most of their infantry, which I find really don't fit. Especially considering they're supposed to be Celtiberians as far as I understand it. The Lusotannan and Edetani, which I compared them with, look completely fine to me. So I would ask if you guys would consider changing the 2 aforementioned faces out for perhaps a "barbarian" face from the celtic/germanic factions some time in the future?

  7. #7287

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Hi,
    Is somebody know if fire & advance Napoleon Total War ability can be made to work in Rome 2 ? Because I saw ability still exist in data tables..
    Last edited by leonardusius; March 16, 2021 at 11:14 AM.

  8. #7288

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Hey there, I'd like to propose a swap of the unit cards for the Macedonian Early Basilikoi Ile to that of the Hiera Ile and vice versa. The reason is that the Hiera Ile are as far as I can tell the same unit just as the general's Early Hiera Ile, except of course their size. Also, is the general's version supposed to have slightly different stats?
    I was wondering as well what exactly the purpose/basis for the Early Basilikoi Ile is, as they seem to be also just the same as the Hiera Ile, with slightly worse stats, but even look completely the same on the battlefield?
    In addition to that, there are also 2 different Late Hiera Ile units, one of them being a general's unit upgrade and a Missile Cav, but the other one being the late Shock Cav version of the non-general one. Is it supposed to be like that? I find that very confusing.
    And lastly, on a curious note, why is it that the Macedonians don't have Hetairoi, I thought this was their "thing" ?
    Last edited by Feeelix; March 24, 2021 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #7289
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Antigonids did not have Hetairoi anymore, this regimental name went only to Seleucids.

    Instead their cav was divided between Royal (Basilike) regiments, which were their "regular" cavalry and Sacred (Hiera) regiments, which were their "elite" cavalry.
    At the same time quality of their cavalry dropped heavily, with skirmishing being their main deal. Reason why late Hiera Ile is not missile is mostly for gameplay purposes so that they have some hard hitting cavalry units as they were still depicted like that on reliefs and coins. King would skirmish so his quard is using "skirmish" gear. Ideally, they would probably pick what weapon they need before battle.
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  10. #7290

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Very interesting, I didn't know that. Thanks KAM!
    I would still suggest then to change the unit card of the Hiera Ile with the Early Ile Basilikoi and vice versa, so the same unit as the generals Early Hiera Ile also has the same unit card. I'd even propose to perhaps give the Early Ile Basilikoi different coloured cloaks or something like that to differentiate them a little bit frim the Early Hiera Ile (as it stands they seem to look exactly the same on the battlefield). Basically like the Late Hiera Ile and Ile Basilikoi, where one of them currently has blue and the other yellow cloaks.
    Last edited by Feeelix; March 24, 2021 at 04:46 PM.

  11. #7291

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    I am of the opinion that the first cohort, or Cohors Prima needs buffs. They are undeniably the lowest moral of the cohorts when battles happen. This is in contrast to their description, purpose, and numbers.
    Can we improve their moral?

  12. #7292
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    They are one of the highest morale cohorts, only 2 Roman units have more morale, Imperial Evocati and Eagle Cohort. Plus their inspire aura gives them and units nearby extra +5 morale, which is not shwoing on UI. That being said, Evocati and Eagle cohort seem to have a bit too high morale compared to them and some Roman units could have their morale tweaked a bit.
    Last edited by KAM 2150; March 25, 2021 at 09:55 AM.
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  13. #7293

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM 2150 View Post
    They are one of the highest morale cohorts, only 2 Roman units have more morale, Imperial Evocati and Eagle Cohort. Plus their inspire aura gives them and units nearby extra +5 morale, which is not shwoing on UI. That being said, Evocati and Eagle cohort seem to have a bit too high morale compared to them and some Roman units could have their morale tweaked a bit.
    Yes I know they have the highest, at least as it shows and like you said the underlying +5, but they are consistently the first unit to drop in morale in every battle compared to my standard legionary units. I can try and record a battle to show you all but it's very consistent.
    Notably, enemy archer units go out of their way to target it. I don't know if the under fire (standard shot not flames) is hindering them more than anything else?

    Off topic, is testudo supposed to be near impenetrable or was it nerfed to take damage after a while?

  14. #7294

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    The solution to your problem is to stop playing as Rome and play as a cool faction instead

  15. #7295

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Livin La Vida Loca View Post
    The solution to your problem is to stop playing as Rome and play as a cool faction instead
    Nothing cooler than Rome my friend, outside of Parthia

  16. #7296

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Every faction is cooler than Rome

  17. #7297

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Livin La Vida Loca View Post
    Every faction is cooler than Rome
    Probably why they called it Gauls Total War huh

  18. #7298

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    hello. in version 1.2.7, you made the AI suicidal very much. We play on the network 1 on 1 for a long time with 1.2.5. In 1.2.7. AI began to attack obviously losing battles!

  19. #7299

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    How much have the other Rome 2 campaign been reworked? Except the main campaign?

  20. #7300

    Default Re: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    How come the pikemen in my game become swordsmen at first contact? In the screenshots for the alternative pike mod on steam it shows them using pikes. I don't think it's my mods that are the issue, but here they are anyways (very basic).

    Thanks for any help!

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