[Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests

[KennyTheKlever]

@Dresden
No, I am only coming back after ~a year without playing, so I am just playing around with vanilla DeI for now with literally no other mods at all. There have been a surprising number of changes - both vanilla and DeI - to get used to.

@KAM
Yes, I remember before taking a break last year thinking that you had pikes and hoplites functioning wonderfully, and the battles in DeI had a perfect tempo to them imo. I don't know how awkward it is to work with pikes after this new patch, but for both cavalry and to a lesser extent infantry, something feels a little 'off' going up against them, and I think it is mostly manifesting itself in pikes being underpowered. The final test I ran last night had the lowest Parthian horse archer unit charging and killing 5-8 Egyptian Royal pikemen without losing a single horseman in the initial charge. The ensuing fight was far less decisive and long-winded than I think it should have been.

I will do some more testing to see if I can come to you with something a little less vague.

[Maetharin]

Here´s hoping that KAM will be able to figure out how CA changed combat again^^

[KennyTheKlever]

Yeah. Among many other things, the combat seems too slow now. KAM had the battle pace perfect by early last year imo, with most people finally happy about pikes (albeit confused about all the different pike lengths introduced from what I recall).
I remember frontal charges on pike phalanxes being suicide for all horses, with even the heaviest cataphract units losing roughly 15-20% on impact, and plenty of casualties for most frontal infantry charges except some heavy Roman or elite two-handed units.

[KAM 2150]

Pikes are still beasts now but they take casualties at first before getting the upper hand. I found not go as far as to call them underpowered because that would not be correct.

Overal after last patch I had to increase unit HP from 30 to 100 (and 120 for cav) since something got broken in how game calculates combat so for example you had a unit that was inferior in EVERY stat and still win with superior unit. Or you had 5 units vs 5 units, same scenario but this time 3 of superior units would win etc. It was just pure nonsense.

[KYREAPER]

Yeah. Among many other things, the combat seems too slow now. KAM had the battle pace perfect by early last year imo, with most people finally happy about pikes (albeit confused about all the different pike lengths introduced from what I recall).
I remember frontal charges on pike phalanxes being suicide for all horses, with even the heaviest cataphract units losing roughly 15-20% on impact, and plenty of casualties for most frontal infantry charges except some heavy Roman or elite two-handed units.

I believe combat speed is perfect right now. It lets my tankier units hold out long enough for me to flank in a timely manner.
It even lets my non-elite tankier units do that, which is their job(despite not being elite, they still have a job and can do it). So i love where it is right now. I think KAM and them nailed it great.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I believe combat speed is perfect right now. It lets my tankier units hold out long enough for me to flank in a timely manner.
It even lets my non-elite tankier units do that, which is their job(despite not being elite, they still have a job and can do it). So i love where it is right now. I think KAM and them nailed it great.

That's very nice to hear.

[Maetharin]

Yeah, I also like the current speed, though I´d appreciate it if shock unit to shock unit combat took a bit less time.

Edit: Now that I´m thinking of it, it would be cool if combat caused a bit less casualties, but morale breaking earlier, thus taking the same amount of time.

[KAM 2150]

Main problem is that it is way easier to inflict those morale penalties and end result would be the same, which is slaughter or routing troops. Plus battles would take less time. That is because any casualties from combat, charges and ranged attacks would need to be minimal so it would be normal to not kill anyone in 3-5 volleys. Since AI is unable to manage morale, you would just encircle AI and score much easier victory each time.

[Basilius]

Combat in DEI is very enjoyable atm KAM. The AI is challenging and there are many strategies to employ on the battlefield.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Combat in DEI is very enjoyable atm KAM. The AI is challenging and there are many strategies to employ on the battlefield.

We appreciate constructive criticism, but positive feedback are also very much welcomed.

[lequintal69]

hey, just a minor suggestion: dont you think some hoplite could use more colors/variations on their shields, some units have a single shield emblem for the whole regiment and I might feel like a bit too "clones army"

Iam thinking of units like makedonian or athenai hoplites, or even epirus ones

what do you think of something more colorful like that ?
https://imgur.com/a/JlNCcSG

[Dumanthis]

Cilician Pirates as a faction?

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Cilician Pirates as a faction?

Enjoyable, but highly unlikable. Have you watched Spartacus recently ?

[Ampraciotis]

Hello DEI team and the rest of the world How you all doing?I would like to suggest a few things here guys.

1:Can you guys add some different names in Hellenic factions?Cause there are some good names but there are many lame names too.If you like i can make a list to you.

2:Can you add some more shield emblems like the guy suggested above and also some more decoratives for armor and shields?It doesnt make sence, most of Hellenic units have very litle decoratives and it seems odd ecpesially for Hellenistic kingdoms.With all there wealth from Alexander's time and after i believe that the Hellenistic kingdoms Emperors and kings were equipping certain units very with the best armour possible but also would be very decorative as to shown their wealth and prestige.Even the steppe factions have more decoratives and many Hellenic symbols, perhaps more than the Greek counterparts.I can again make a list for you and collest pictures from my countries coundless museums or paintings.

3:From what i can tell you have added phallanx unit to Syracuse cause probably perhaps they would in the future in an alternative history.But maybe they should not have one.It would be better to if they expand in the east have to get territories that already had such units and recruit them.Also i dont think they should have so many foreign and sicilian units in their army, well mostly the foreign.I dont think there is even a single historian that states they used foreigners.(correct me if i'm wrong)But i guess you put those units so they can have a bigger variation.Maybe you should add some other Hellenic units to them from Sicely, from cities like Agrigentum wich they campaign together against the carthaginians.And maybe some units from their metropolis Corith.Like a limited number of Hoplites or something.Also again i dont like the fact that they have so many foregin armament.Doesnt make any sence.Italians, Romans, Carthaginians used Hellenic Helmets, armor, Shields, weapons or variants.So how could Hellenic cities used foreign?Obsiously other nations used Hellenic ones cause of better factionallity or more reliable etc.So why Hellenes use foreign?Oh and something else, the lancer cavallary unit of Syracuse the Anihneute if i remember correctly, well their name means scout so i think it doesnt fit maybe use it to their light cav and use something else for them.

Anyway these were my suggestions again i can help you out with all of these i have the sources so thank you in advance and have a nice day.

[Dresden]

This is the first time I have ever heard our mod doesn't have enough variation. If anything it ends up destroying some people's PCs in battles due to the amount of variation we cram into units.

Our Hellenic units were specifically researched and put together, certain units definitely do have very ornate armor and decorations. I am not sure what you guys are playing exactly But some units also have less by design, it really depends on the faction, unit and quality. We will not be revisiting Hellenic units yet again, sorry. We already did a massive overhaul for them in the last major update. Also many people have trouble playing with some of the Hellenic factions because of all the models/textures like I said, so I don't even understand where this criticism is coming from to be honest.

You guys are more than welcome to create submods and new variation mods, though, for those who want to have more of that on all units.

[Ampraciotis]

I think you took it the wrong way.I didnt say they were no variation in the mod, on the contrary like you said this mod is the best there is in all terms.Variation quality mechanics everything.I said about some historical facts such as Syracuse, and also about helmet and armor decorative.I'm playing this mod since where it first came out.I said the steppe faction have very nice armor and helmet decoratives something that i dont see so much in Hellenic units.Yes they have shield patterns but no Helmet or armor decoratives exept a couple.About Syracuse.Carthaginian cavalary commander has 100% Hellenic weapons 100@ Hellenic shields 50-60% Hellenic armor 80% Hellenic helmets.Syracusian general has 100@ Hellenic shields 100@Hellenic weapons 60-70%Hellenic shields 60-70 % Hellenic helmets. i have more examples but you get the point.This is not criticism its suggestion.It seems that every time i'm suggesting something that make sence and have a point you guys get offended or say this is criticism.I'm just suggesting staff and offered my help voluntarily.

[Dresden]

I'm not offended, just confused. I am not sure why everyone thinks we get offended so easily Also I was referring to an above feedback about lack of variation.

In terms of the names, that is something we can add pretty easily. If you have a list I can add that in. The Syracuse pikes are a unit I think we meant to remove but forgot to.

[lequintal69]

This is the first time I have ever heard our mod doesn't have enough variation. If anything it ends up destroying some people's PCs in battles due to the amount of variation we cram into units.

Our Hellenic units were specifically researched and put together, certain units definitely do have very ornate armor and decorations. I am not sure what you guys are playing exactly But some units also have less by design, it really depends on the faction, unit and quality. We will not be revisiting Hellenic units yet again, sorry. We already did a massive overhaul for them in the last major update. Also many people have trouble playing with some of the Hellenic factions because of all the models/textures like I said, so I don't even understand where this criticism is coming from to be honest.

You guys are more than welcome to create submods and new variation mods, though, for those who want to have more of that on all units.

I was stricktly talking about shield emblems for greeks, not about armor/helmet/shield model or anything else: i have like 300hours of DEI playtime so it certainly didnt bother me that much I just thought about it seeing macedon hoplite regiment had just 2 shield "emblems", one beeing actually just a simple unpainted (white) shield, the other featuring a light, washed dull colour logo. Nothing too fancy

On the other hand, as u can see in the screenshot i posted, too many different emblems can look confusing

[KAM 2150]

Shield emblembs can be reworked but we mostly try to not add too many of those as we actually need to pay real money to increase size of our mod due to steam limits. So unless something is very important, we mostly try not to add anything new.

Syracuse pikes will be gone as we were going to do that for quite some time.

In terms or amours and helmets I disagree, Hellenic units look great but please don't confuse some officer/royal burials with how standard troops looked. Our elite units sport highly detailed stuff, especially even better looking after upcoming patch but you also need to keep in mind that standard guy was not equipped as you might like it. I would even say that a lot of our Hellenic units are actually too good looking and should have even less armour or well made stuff on them.

[priam54]

Logades look so great it's the main reason I usually play as Athens!
Seriously, I have an addiction. Can you make them less nice so I can play other factions please?