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Thread: [Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

  1. #181

    Icon10 Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by FlashHeart07 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.
    And pardon my slight sarcasm

    1. Have you played the mod? I ask this considering the fact that the Population mechanic, People of Rome is a feature of this mod.



    2. It would be possible as we already have scripted AI armies. These are not created to simulate invasions but to aid the AI under c
    ertain circumstances.




    3. Im unsure whether we can directly control specific targets for AI armies, and I personally wouldnt like the idea of completely scripted invasions as they would be quite easily avoidable for the player. Unless ofc Im completely missing your point?
    1) No problem for the sarcasm :-). So, I have played the previous mod, not yet the new one. I will write again after having tried it.
    My question started from the fact that, since Roman infantry are better as values then the auxiliaries ones (and the DEI team didi a great work to create many different kinds of auxiliary infantry), the player tends to create armies of only Roman troops.
    Limiting the number of recruitable Roman troops would make things more realistic and also more funny, since you would have different kinds of troops in the army.

    2)Ok, I see. I would prefer some big events, to simulate for instance people migrations or the rise of aggressive new empires. It would increse the variability and change the situations in unforeseen ways. It would be great if it happened randomly.
    It is only a suggestion, I have no idea about the technical complexity of doing it in a mod

    3) I agree with you to avoid scripted invasions. I was suggesting to have particular organised invasions (for instance generating some additional armies for the enemy) with the aim of destroy your regions. This could include a way of giving back regions to the original owners to create satrapy (change of the support of the allies), sack territories and so on. A more organised invasion which may simulate particular wars, e.g. Hannibal or Pyrrhus.
    I have no idea if for having this kind of behaviour we should change the AI, and what you can do in the mod.

    Thanks again for your great work and for your answer,
    I will try the new mod and will be back with some feedback!

  2. #182
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    It should be a bit easier with upcoming patch as I made crap units stay alive longer I made a typo in one place so that is why they got slaughtered that much (their models were attack by more other models at once).
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  3. #183

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by whitegamebox View Post
    It doesn't seem to work on me. I did as you said. But the siege time is same. (12 turns)
    And I use marian reforms for augustus, reduced squalor, adei gladiator.
    Is this a mod problem?
    I am not sure the marian reforms for Augustus is updated properly so it won't be compatible if it hasn't been updated. But, that should have no impact on the reduced siege effect. I will check it out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ostrogoth View Post
    Yes, Kartli is bit easier than Kolkhis. However their starting position is also crappy. Their capital has only one building slot and the units you mentioned require tons of money and 2nd class population. Also Armenia should not declare war at the beginning or the campaign is doomed. So if we compare Kolkhis and Kartli then it can be said that Kolkhis is the harder one, however Kartli is also one of the hardest faction even on normal difficulty. Yes, Kolkhis difficulty is even more harder because neighbors hate Kolkhis more(Bosporans for example). Diplomatic penalty against Hellenistic factions must be the reason behind it.


    I had no idea that Caledones were in the same situation. Looks like some of the one settlement factions are having extremly hard time.
    Smaller one region factions have always been very hard in DeI, especially at the start. Its extremely difficult to find the right balance here, as you will notice many complain about larger factions being too easy. One change here affects other starts. We will continue to work on balancing as the beta continues.


    The normal, hard, easy etc stuff is not something you should go by. Most of that is either from vanilla or not changed since 1.0 - we have redone the startpos and grand campaign from the ground up so those variables have not been looked at.

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  4. #184
    rbt's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Is it possible to make bigger dots for units positioning on battlefield map? It's hard to see something proper formation that you want so prepare for some units.

  5. #185

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dresden View Post
    Smaller one region factions have always been very hard in DeI, especially at the start. Its extremely difficult to find the right balance here, as you will notice many complain about larger factions being too easy. One change here affects other starts. We will continue to work on balancing as the beta continues.


    The normal, hard, easy etc stuff is not something you should go by. Most of that is either from vanilla or not changed since 1.0 - we have redone the startpos and grand campaign from the ground up so those variables have not been looked at.
    I understand your point. If early game will be too easy then late game will be too easy. However, current income and building overhaul makes easier life for bigger factions and punishes small factions. Now it is much easier to start campaign as Rome or Carthage because as soon as regions are slightly developed money related problems will be distant past. As a result small factions got in even harder position than they were in previous version and big factions became easier. This will also make mid-game easier for small faction in case of survival of course.

    I also noticed some weird behavior that often happens between Rome and Carthage when both of them are AI faction. Both of them hate Epirus and Carthage often declares war on Epirus because of that. As a result Rome and Carthage end up as best buddies. Even more, because Epirus is hated basically by everybody Rome is also loved by whole Hellenistic world(as they all hate Epirus). In my Syracuse campaign Carthage declared war on me(Carthage 100% declares war on Syracuse every single time) and as a result I got diplomatic penalties with Rome. At the end Rome also declared war on me in order to "defend" his buddy. You can imagine how my campaign ended.
    Last edited by Ostrogoth; January 10, 2017 at 07:20 PM.

  6. #186

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    At this time with our new scenario, Carthage was actually in an agreement with Rome against Syracuse/Epirus and their Italian/Greek allies. That is why it starts that way. We have scripts that will cause Rome and Carthage to go to war once that situation is resolved.

    Syracuse is a really tough spot right now, I am adding some bonus troops to Epirus' army when Syracuse is the player to try to help that.

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  7. #187
    hippacrocafish's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Tried Scordisci for a bit. Their roster seems kinda weak, especially compared to the other gauls. None of their starting infantry have javelins, only one (celto-thracian spearman) has any armor at all, their missiles are kinda meh compared to what other factions get early on. Even their top-tier swordsman doesn't compare with other gallic swordsmen (and also doesn't have javelins). I guess you could demolish the farm you start with and build a barracks instead, but I think it may be worth making their weak units just a little more useful. That Orca swordsman unit is cool as hell though.

  8. #188
    Foederatus
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    So far I am loving all the hard work you guys have put into this mod, thank you for all your time and effort. I started as Sparta and had a hard time getting going without taking Athens out of the question, which caused other difficulties. Love the complexities of conquest versus diplomacy. Decided to see what Rome had to offer, and wow, right from the start was loving it. Had to figure out how to take on Epirus and Etruscans attacking from both sides with me having 2 smaller armies by comparison. Bait and trap for the win. And then Carthage chimes in, I am having so much fun trying to make the best army I can with the populations I have and the money my economy allows.

    As far as I can tell, the people trying to go about a static fight with their hoplites are the cause of their own demise. I have no issues with routing but I also never allow hoplites to be the sole engager of a unit for long. After reading on what the Roman Maniple formation was and how it was used in actual combat, I understand how Rome dominated a battle field. It allows for manuevering to exploit your enemies flanks. On the flip side it also removes the ability of the enemy to truly get to your flanks by giving you a gap to slam your reserves into. I even had one battle were my 2 units of hoplites held an entire army at bay for 5 minutes in a small gap in a town while the rest of my army finished flanking the enemy and attacked its rear. My hoplites did eventually flee but not until they did the job I needed them to do.

    I believe the problem at least in the posted picture of a hoplite formation wavering with relatively few kills was caused by a combination of being outnumbered at that spot and taking friendly fire in the back. I always move ranged units to the left flank of my units after initial contact with the enemy. allows for far more kills per shot and eliminates a substantial number of friendly fire kills.

    I also have to say I like the fact that at one point I was in a desperate spot and hired a full mercenary army to hold back Carthage. It wiped out the 60,000 in coins I had in 5 turns and ruined my economy for probably another 15, but I was able to hold my territories until an army was freed up to take over. Felt like I trully had to decide between holding land or holding coin.

    Can't say I have found any hardcore issues to this point and I am at 200 turns. Most everything I found was missing or inaccurate text that I am sure is a work in progress being a beta. So once again thank you for your time and effort.

  9. #189

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    I think the library buildings need to be reviewed. As they are, they offer little reason to build them, with only a 5% increase in research rate at the first level. To make them 'realistic' and worthwhile, I think the initial act of dedicating a building that stores writing should bear the brunt of the research benefit, giving a level 1 library a buff of ~20% to research rate, and with each subsequent level increasing that by 5% or 10%.

  10. #190

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    The new update is something... Great job indeed. The map is more dynamic. Wars are occurring more often. And finally the battles are winnable. Restarted campaign as Colchis as soon as I downloaded the update. Kartli and Trebizond declared war on turn one. But now I could finally win battles and butchered them one after another. Conquered Kartli and esablished pupped state in Trebizond in order to secure myself from southern enemies. Soon as expected Bosporans and slightly later Pontus declared war. Together with Siraces I invaded Bosporan lands, conquered the nearest town and established liberated "state". After that I got rid of Ardhan and gained gold thus securing Caucasus province. Trebizond usurpers were able to destroy Pontus. However Bosporans recaptured their lost city. Now I am planning to once again invade them and liberate every single city they have. I don't want to occupy their lands as I have no desire to deal with nomads.

    In the end I can say that the update made huge improvement. Forget anything I said about how hard small factions are. With winnable battles anything is possible After Colchis campaign I am going to play as Syracuse. BTW I got message about Roman victory in Magna Graecia. Was it recently added? I have not seen it before.
    Last edited by Ostrogoth; January 10, 2017 at 09:52 PM.

  11. #191

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Hopefully some of my campaign changes didn't make it too easy But the main change for the campaign side was replenishment and also making Easy/Normal have less AI bonuses and a bit of player help. After Hard+ things get back to where they were previously.

    I am also going to update the start difficulty text for the factions next update so its more apparent which ones are considered hard, easy, etc. I may even customize that text so its a bit more descriptive.

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  12. #192
    Foederatus
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Question on the Mastia capitol city in Iberia. Is the grain resource meant for gaining access to building chains that require it since their is no benefit to the region or province itself?

  13. #193

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    I spotted a minor glitch 5 minutes into the game. On 1.2.2 when I click on any cities in Italia, the population number overlaps the region growth bar.

  14. #194

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Finally the phalanxes hold and they work as they should. That's a huge deal for me. The problem is, as I said before, the Ptolemaic Egypt, as well as the other Succesor kingdoms, rely heavily on 1st class citizen soldiers to be able to stand a chance. As I started playing with Ptolemaic Egypt, I had about 1400 Eugeneis. Now, having 5 regions conquered and 4 satrapies, I have only 200 Eugeneis per each region, meaning being able to recruit at most 2 Ptolemaic Hetairoi cavalry or 1 Basilikoi thorakitai/peltastai and no phalanxes, since one needs 256 men. This is ridiculous. I've done all the important researches, I've built level 3 main city and level 3 main villages, built at least 2 level 3 temples in each region, built level 4 libraries, built level 3 amphitheatres, still no boost in the 1st class citizenship pool. I really don't care about building level 3 or 4 barracks anymore, since I can't recruit those elite specific units no matter what I do. If in order to recruit those elite units, one has to sabotage region stability, resources and food, then it really is an issue that needs to be addressed in the final 1.2 release. Sure, I can conquer half the map with machimoi pikes, levy hoplites, spears and swords, the same units any other Succesor faction has in the beginning/medium campaign, but there's no incentive to do that, because there's absolutely no fun at all. Why should I try to research higher tier barracks if I can't recruit those elite units? This damned poulation system, which in theory is great, but in practice I feel it's just a gimmick which gives more micromanaging, more stats, more cumbersome growth and development under the guise of "realistic" (that dreaded little word that ruined many other games) for the player, while the AI still doesn't care about the economy and population system and recruits the best armies it can muster, either 2 full stacks or 1 full stack and a half.
    It's not all doom and gloom, I still love DEI, I like the new icons, the Augustus map feels better, the battles now feel great, the phalanxes finally work, the emergent factions is a welcome addition. I wish you could provide us with some explanation about buildings in the UI and a DEI manual has to be done. Also certain things have to be ironed out, like Egypt having Kyrenaike as a client state, but can also have satrapies: so Egypt can be both European and Asian as well. But hey, I can live with one or two glitches or mistakes, but the 1st class citizen pool for the Succesor/greek states is really a gamebreaker at this point, at least for me.

  15. #195
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Hellenic factions haven't been overhauled yet for 1.2.
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  16. #196

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    I dont see 1st and 2nd class being limited as a game breaker. Sorry, but that is the entire point of the pop system. You have to value and appreciate citizens and elites while now relying on other levy and aor type units. If you just want to spam elites then this is not the mod for you.

    Our focus has always been adding layers of complexity and realism and I refuse to compromise that vision. Player immersion and depth in the campaign are good things, you have to balance and figure things out. The latest update should have addressed most concerns in regards to too many AI bonuses at lower difficulties and troubles with pop growth.
    Last edited by Dresden; January 11, 2017 at 04:28 AM.

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  17. #197

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM 2150 View Post
    Hellenic factions haven't been overhauled yet for 1.2.
    Eh,how many fictions have been overhauled and advise to use them in 1.2?THX!

  18. #198
    FlashHeart07's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2


  19. #199

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dresden View Post
    I dont see 1st and 2nd class being limited as a game breaker. Sorry, but that is the entire point of the pop system. You have to value and appreciate citizens and elites while now relying on other levy and aor type units. If you just want to spam elites then this is not the mod for you.

    Our focus has always been adding layers of complexity and realism and I refuse to compromise that vision. Player immersion and depth in the campaign are good things, you have to balance and figure things out. The latest update should have addressed most concerns in regards to too many AI bonuses at lower difficulties and troubles with pop growth.
    I've understood the purpose of the population system. I wasn't saying that is normal to spam full stacks with elite soldiers, that never crossed my mind (even though I have about a million to spend right now, therefore I can afford not one, but 5 full stacks of elites), but at least give me some leeway to recruit at least a third of a full stack with elites since I've done the appropiate research and I have already conquered 5 regions and 5 satrapies and never lost a piece of land. I think that's fair, that's progression, an aspect just as important in a videogame just like "realism", Dresden. No offense, but where's the logic in starting with 2 regions and 1400 Eugeneis and after 100 turns ending up with 3 more regions and 5 satrapies, but only 200 Eugeneis, since I didn't lose any battle, all my campaign has been growth, expanding and development? I feel like I'm penalized for playing as I should and believe me, I've played DEI for hundreds if not thousands of hours with all factions. What exactly is causing the 1st class population to drop so dramatically and never expand? Because every other class of citizens is expanding, only the 1st class keeps getting smaller and smaller by the conquest and I don't get why that happens. I've built, destroyed, tried a different type of building while carefully watching the population happiness and food, and nothing seems to change this. Again, I get the purpose of the population system, it's good on paper, nobody wants to spam full elite armies because it's unrealistic and gamebreaking as well, but to penalize the player for playing as he should for no reason, even though the game gets tougher with higher tier buildings that come with penalties regarding food or population happiness, it's simply ludicrous. I'm not saying that the population system needs to go, but that it needs serious tweaking, since it negates players the ability to recruit better troops with no reason and logic. The way it is right now is like playing Ptolemaic Egypt after the French Revolution, with only 2 classes of citizens, but without muskets and cannons lol.

  20. #200

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsmile1015 View Post
    I spotted a minor glitch 5 minutes into the game. On 1.2.2 when I click on any cities in Italia, the population number overlaps the region growth bar.
    Excuse the glitch only occurs in Latium when playing as the rome faction.

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