[Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests

[jeanlannes]

Hi. I've got a question regarding the combat system so I guess it should be addressed to Kam. And I hope you don't take it as an offense because I know you have worked a lot on it over the last years.

The point is that battles are so completely different from the way it were when I discovered DEI (and were the main reason to fall in love with the mod) that I'm found myself frustrated to the extent of closing the game in the middle of a battle just because I can't bear it's annoying progress.

From what I've learnt on this forum over the last years it seems that some time ago the original combat system of the mod was broken with one of the official patches (thank you CA). And my guess was that your work was in order to get battles similar to that old ones. That's why I was really hopeful on the last mod update with your new combat system. But after playing some battles I must say I don´t see a big difference with the previous ones so my question is the following: is this new combat system the closest to the old one that you may get after working so hard or my guess was wrong and you're not trying to replicate that old battle style.

Thank you and please excuse me if this post upsets you.

[Dresden]

First of all, thank you so very much for making Rome 2 playable, at least for me. I've played rome 2 for almost 5k hours plus, and the last 4k with DeI i really enbjoy your Mod! It's fascinating how beatifully you and your team have made this mod so good that you boosted my passion for ancient history by 500%! But there's always a BUT xD I've found the Rise of The Republic a bit strange since is setted in the 400BC that Roma doesn't have the Phalanx based army and instead it has the Manipular/Early army of Hastati, Principes and Triarii, is it by your choice to leave it like this or you'll fix this problem since this mod tend to be historically accurate as possible in the early phases of the game and i sincerely think that this DLC need some love by you @Dresden ahahah. As I said before, your mod is awesome keep up the good work have a nice *____* (<- put your daytime in here) and be safe with this damn pandemic!

From some research it is not 100% clear exactly how Romans fought, even if the likelihood was that they used the Greek phalanx. They still had their designations of citizen type, etc. We decided to leave them as is on purpose. They still have some phalanx units. RoR isn't really our focus time period (same with Empire Divided).

Hi. I've got a question regarding the combat system so I guess it should be addressed to Kam. And I hope you don't take it as an offense because I know you have worked a lot on it over the last years.

The point is that battles are so completely different from the way it were when I discovered DEI (and were the main reason to fall in love with the mod) that I'm found myself frustrated to the extent of closing the game in the middle of a battle just because I can't bear it's annoying progress.

From what I've learnt on this forum over the last years it seems that some time ago the original combat system of the mod was broken with one of the official patches (thank you CA). And my guess was that your work was in order to get battles similar to that old ones. That's why I was really hopeful on the last mod update with your new combat system. But after playing some battles I must say I don´t see a big difference with the previous ones so my question is the following: is this new combat system the closest to the old one that you may get after working so hard or my guess was wrong and you're not trying to replicate that old battle style.

Thank you and please excuse me if this post upsets you.

You will need to be much more specific about the "old" battle system. Our battle system is constantly evolving and changes quite a bit each major patch. We have had many overhauls the past few years. If you mean the slower battle system, yes that was moved away from on purpose.

[KAM 2150]

The old combat syste was not removed due to CA patches but due to being very easy and slow for the sake of being slow since AI would not do anything there or stuff like AI ranged unit being barely able to kill more than 5-10 people. Plus lots of other bugs I was not yet aware of back then.

New patch is just combination of years of experience, ton of bug fixing and improvements for AI. System we have now is both slower than the one we had for last few patches but AI got also better like all AI cav tries to flank and cycle charge. Current combat build was heavily tested for months for both SP and MP gameplay.

[jeanlannes]

You will need to be much more specific about the "old" battle system. Our battle system is constantly evolving and changes quite a bit each major patch. We have had many overhauls the past few years. If you mean the slower battle system, yes that was moved away from on purpose.

Yeah, of course, my image of the old battles is someting clear just on my mind. And you're right about the slower speed, which I miss a lot (I don't only dislike the killing rate but also how fast the units move in the battlefield).

But the my main annoyance comes with units moving absurdly in the battle line (pikes and phalanxes mostly), partially crossing through my line and (occasionally and in cities) my own units spreading so much in contact with the enemy that they don't respond correctly when I try to move them.

I don't remeber such things happening with the battle style I remember but, of course, it could be just a mythification product of my nostalgia...

[KAM 2150]

Units on average are now slower than they were in old battle system.

Now bug with phalanx units moving through other units is on CA as that issue is still in new games. I have just updated both Alternative Pike and Hoplite Phalanx submods, which changes how they work and that bug is gone but at a price (it works in similar way as old phalanx did):
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...anx-Shieldwall

I have also made slower combat submod so you might want to try that one too:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil.../?id=365262667

[jeanlannes]

Kam, thank you for taking my comments in a good way, explaining the goals of you work and being so nice to suggest submods that would suit me better. I've already used slower combat and it has pros and cons, so I'm still undecided.

Pike and Phalanx submods could be the solution for me, because the whole point of my frustration with the game is that I'm an almost exclusively helenistic player. But I'm also demanding on realism and don't think I can take pikes behaving the way that I read the do. But I must give it a try.

One last question. As I wrote, I remember enjoying greatly the old battle system (and for "old" I mean I started playing Lines of Battle mod). Was the pike/phalanx CA bug already there and I don't remeber it due to my selective memory or was it introduced later in a patch?

Thanks again.

[KAM 2150]

From what I recall it was always there but we just had less phalanx type of units.

Btw, you can either use these submods just for pikes, just for hoplites or both at the same time. Best part is that they are save compatible This means you can turn them on if you have to face a lot of phalanx units but turn them off if you are to face Romans or Barbs.

[Moonflower]

no one:
me: Chance of Magonid family getting one of their traits changed to an agriculture bonus? personally i always swap barcid ag with mago occupation resistance. made more sense to me (barcids being cited conquerors, and then this sole surviving piece of lit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mago_(...ltural_writer) on agriculture by a man named Mago...) heh

[MoraleBooster]

I really like the Mamertine spears and taurisci axemen, they are so valuable and dont draw from the plebian population. The question is what would stop me to spam an entire army of those, becoming historically inaccurate?

[Mastergunner_19k]

I'd say the only thing that would stop me...(and is stopping me in fact)...from spamming those amazing units like the Marmertime Spears is my own decision not to. I enjoy the freedom of choosing how my Legions are build without game mechanics forcing me to.

[MoraleBooster]

Critical but important request: Make household traits etc more rare. Right now there is just way too much and it just floods. Its alot more appealing and interesting to have to choose from a few, and making them more rarer.

[Dresden]

I actually dramatically decreased the spawn chances for ancillaries in the last update. But, yes I agree. It probably still is an issue. The problem is the random chance generation in the game and the limited triggers available.

[Pheros]

Am I crazy or does the Greek BAI simply stops working some times? Their main line goes up against mine and just stays there.

Looks like they can't make up their mind about attacking or flanking (?), and keep changing between those two options. And in phalanx movement is really slow, which means they basically don't move for the duration of the battle.

Hard to illustrate, but for example, those units would stay there for the whole battle if I didn't attack them. One or two eventually attack my line, but they're always attacking kinda sideways.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.n...C1CA9996790A1/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.n...50DA38B1747E0/

Eventually I end up just attacking them.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.n...3C9C665F63B60/

I'm thinking it's because I have light infantry on the flanks? Is there a specific way I should be playing so the AI performs better?
I don't really mind not playing optimally, just want to have some cool battles instead of steamrolling scattered units.

[Filip2000]

Is there a difference between elite hoplites (Logades) available for Athens and the elite athenian hoplites unit that you can purchase when you own Athens ?

[KAM 2150]

Logades are Athenian specific unit related to their combat structure while Athenian Elite Hoplites are more generic unit.

[Livin La Vida Loca]

Hey just wanted to compile some things about meroe into a forum comment where they’d be easier to track
1) are meroe units supposed to be reform locked? The preview for them mentions some but it isn’t so ingame
2) I feel that meroe archer units should have 200 men. Just makes sense.
3) two handed ace men use third class pop, which can’t be right (unless this was changed recently and I missed it).
4) and this is said apprehensively, but shouldn’t the Red Sea hoplites be foreigners? The descriptions mentions them being largely Greek colonists, and most of the models are Greek. But some of them are Africans, so I’m not really sure, more of a question than anything else really.

[The Despondent Mind]

Yup it seems I am not gonna enjoy Alex submod, I expected Persia and its satrapies as a whole stack spam as much as that sucks and feels so gamey, but what I did not expect is just Lydia the satrapy stack spam... They alone feel like a Persian empire, their units also are crazy tough and make flanking unbelievably difficult(cause every battle is a multy stack battle and their units are an endless stream of tough infantry, so even if flank the first line, there is more inf coming and trapping the flanking units) and redundant (I have to use 5 units to break one, and pray to gods that a general does not die when I use them to flank).

Even tiny depleted units of enemy cav can just disrupt my formations and army, and then just casually leave. This high morale for everyone really favors the larger more numerous armies to insane levels, cause just cannot pull of some miracle flank. I cannot quickly kill a smaller army before the larger reinforcements arrives or vice versa (downright impossible so far).

[Dresden]

Hey just wanted to compile some things about meroe into a forum comment where they’d be easier to track
1) are meroe units supposed to be reform locked? The preview for them mentions some but it isn’t so ingame
2) I feel that meroe archer units should have 200 men. Just makes sense.
3) two handed ace men use third class pop, which can’t be right (unless this was changed recently and I missed it).
4) and this is said apprehensively, but shouldn’t the Red Sea hoplites be foreigners? The descriptions mentions them being largely Greek colonists, and most of the models are Greek. But some of them are Africans, so I’m not really sure, more of a question than anything else really.

1. If I remember correctly there are no reform units.
2. Possibly, although I think 200 archer units are limited to certain factions - KAM would know more about that.
3. I believe we recently changed them.
4. Probably, good question.

[Demon Soul]

Hello

I wanted to ask, is there any reason why units have just few lines of description?

[KAM 2150]

Yes, it would increase size of UI and take a lot of screen. People who play on lower resolutions have hard time with UI already.