[Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests

[CadetNewb]

You guys are saints!

[Ptolemaios Soter]

Cimbri Unit Feedback:
While it's cool to have an overhauled (and playable) Cimbri roster, I think the overall balance of their units is out of wack. In general, it seems that their roster is built to have units competitive with the elites of any other top faction, but they also get various special abilities to make them feel unique. The outcome is that the Cimbri are now hands-down the most powerful faction, able to go toe-to-toe in direct combat with any other elite units, and I don't think that was at all the intent.

- Kuningaz Beryanoz (noble swordsmen). There's been some discussion on Discord about these guys, and I think they lead off the problem. With 9/9 attack/defense, these soldiers are the top melee stats in the game. There are a few other units up there, particularly among the barbarian factions, but those are offset by low armor such as the Belgae Naked Swordsmen (10 armor) or the Seubi Late Germanic Elite Swordsmen (60 armor). The Cimbri elites are basically identical to Late Oathsworn, which are supposed to be the crem-de-la-crem of barbarian factions. Other Germanic "heavy" units (and even some other Heavy Crimbri units) have 30-45 armor. Bumping them down to 60 armor to match their Seubi brethren should solve this.

- Thegnoz and Dugunpiz. Rather than the shieldwall of other barbarian factions (or the loose and light short pike phalanx of the Seubi), these guys use the superior hoplite phalanx. These seems wildly out of place for a German faction. I assume that's a simple error and fix to swap in the slightly weaker shieldwall? Speaking of the Dugunpiz by the way, these guys are exactly what should make the Crimbi feel unique. They have ambush phalanx units! That's cool without being unbalanced.

- Waupiz Wopo and Xapubardoz. This is pretty minor, but it seems backwards that the regular swordsmen would have the scare trait and the wolf warriors don't (though the latter do have ambush traits). Just flagging in case it's an error.

- Cavalry (all of them: Ridnaz, Gaisoz Ridnaz, and Marhathegnoz). There are a few issues here. While it makes sense that the light cav have 10 speed, the medium and heavy cavalry really shouldn't. I don't think German horses were noted for their speed and strength. Nissean, Galic, and Numidian cavalry were exceptional, but while Germans formed an elite cavalry component in the Roman military, I've never heard mention of their exceptional equine stock. In game terms, their general unit is basically on par in stats and armor with Roman Imperial Praetorian Cav and superior to Camillian General Cav, but better than both with 10 speed. The only other units that heavy and fast are in Parthia or Sythia. Again, this feels like Crimbri elites were just modeled after the top-tier elites of other factions, without giving them a weakness. The second, and perhaps most frustrating issue with the cav is that they all have the full slate of ambush traits. I'm fine with the guerrilla deployment as this is (or should be) after all an ambush faction. However these cavalry (including heavy cav with 90 armor) all have stalk, which makes them disappear while galloping across the plains. This led to one of the most absurd experiences I've had in DeI where I was playing as Carthage and targeting the enemy cav with my Balearic Slingers, and the cav kep disappearing while in range, preventing me from shooting them. I get the value of a surprise cavalry attack from behind and how it fits with this roster. But magically disappearing horses galloping across the grass is ridiculous. Did you give them all Frodo's ring?

Anyway, I hope all of this is taken into account under the banner of seeking to make improvements, rather than dumping criticism. As I said at the opening, it's cool to have this new faction with their unique traits. My hope is that be bringing some of these units back down a bit, the Crimbri will be fun and unique, while still being a weaker overall faction than some of the heavy hitters like Rome, Arverni, Greeks, etc. I like that not every faction in this game is balanced with identical top-tier units.

[Remodor]

I tried the Molossian Hounds and thought of them as a fast unit, as they have no armour and are running with dogs. The released dogs are totally fine in speed but the unit itself feels like a slow tank. As there speed is not displayed it seemed they where on paar with my heavy infantry, around 2-3 speed. Is this supposed to be like that? This makes them incredibly hard to use in fights as they fit rather in a niche anyway.
Also it does not make any sense to me, if that could be changed.

[KAM 2150]

Thanks for input nhvanputten, I will defo make a lot of tweaks for the next patch. In terms of speed, if cav has a speed of 10, it means it is much, much weaker than a cav with speed of 8. It basically means their charge is rubish (charge bonus is not used to calculate cavalry charge damage in this game) as they have little mass and they will get crushed if frontally charged by similar unit with heavier horses. Now in case of their actual light cav, if I would change them to have speed of 8, it would be buff, not nerf as it would make them stronger in terms of charge.

Remodor, I can change it but this is first time I hear someone is using dog handlers for combat. They are supposed to be rushed back behind your lines after you release their dogs and they are not expected to take part in combat.

[Dresden]

I think those Cimbri units are supposed to have the barbarian shield wall formation rather than the hoplite phalanx formation, it was just a mistaken entry.

[Remodor]

Remodor, I can change it but this is first time I hear someone is using dog handlers for combat. They are supposed to be rushed back behind your lines after you release their dogs and they are not expected to take part in combat.

I understand your point. This is also the case for me, i dont use them in combat. But i sometimes use them against skirmisher or together with my spartan youths at flanks to send the hounds at the remaining back line of ranged units, but getting them in position is very hard because of the low speed. And chasing before releasing the dogs is nearly impossible. I dont want to send the dogs at or through there hoplite (of cause) so i try to maneuver around, but this feels unnecessary hard.

It doesnt make much sense to be that slow anyway in my opinion as they are super lightly equipped, nor can i see many reasons to leave them that slow.
I would be glad for that change

[KAM 2150]

I will most likely change their class to be the same as of ranged unit so speed of 4. This should make much more sense Plus I forgot that dog speed scales down to their speed until you release them.

[Ptolemaios Soter]

In terms of speed, if cav has a speed of 10, it means it is much, much weaker than a cav with speed of 8. It basically means their charge is rubish (charge bonus is not used to calculate cavalry charge damage in this game) as they have little mass and they will get crushed if frontally charged by similar unit with heavier horses. Now in case of their actual light cav, if I would change them to have speed of 8, it would be buff, not nerf as it would make them stronger in terms of charge.

Wow, I’ve spent over 2,000 hours playing this game and had no idea! I ran some tests and yeah, the difference is very significant. In MP (battles or H2H) speed is so critical because it gives you control over the engagement. But even then I guess the solution is just charge them head on. This begs another question though if I may: does this apply to lancer type cav as well like Macedonian Sarissa cav? I would love it if there were custom horses that are fast and heavy for lightly armored shock units. Perhaps that could solve the German problem as well in reverse - a custom horse that was light mass with 8 speed for the medium and heavy cavalary?

[antred]

Question: Why are Apulii Extraordinarii so damned good?

Apulii Extraordinarii (an AOR unit recruitable in southern Italy) have insanely good stats. Compared to Veteran Marian Legionaries, they have +2 on melee attack and defense, have a bigger charge bonus and more weapons damage. They do have slightly less armor piercing damage, lower morale and less armor, as well as slightly lower stamina, but still they're one of the few units that you can safely keep around even after the Marian reforms. I'd argue they must be some of the best damned sword infantry around. Are they really intended to be this OP?

P.S. I do realize they're not all-around superior to Legionaries. For instance, they lack the latter's testudo formation and heavy pila.

[Dardo21]

Aren't the Apulii Extraordinarii veteran triarii? They're literally supposed to be some of the best infantry to be found in Italy I'd think. And considering the timetable, they'd best be compared to the polybian praetorians and principes in that regard I'd think (since the camilian infantry use spears), I also believe they have inferior shield stats due to using a hoplon, but not sure on that.

[antred]

I also believe they have inferior shield stats due to using a hoplon, but not sure on that.

Oh, is that a thing in DeI? I was under the impression that early versions of Rome 2 had 2 separate armor value for shield and body-armor but that that was later done away with in favor or just 1 combined armor value.

[Ptolemaios Soter]

Oh, is that a thing in DeI? I was under the impression that early versions of Rome 2 had 2 separate armor value for shield and body-armor but that that was later done away with in favor or just 1 combined armor value.

You are correct regarding armor, but shields contribute melee defense to the front and left as well as missile block chance from those directions. Different shields have different values for each. The scutum is a generally superior shield, particularly for missile block.

Regarding the Apulli Extrordinari specifically, I believe they are also drawn from 1st class population like the Socii Trarii that they’re based on. Rome doesn’t really have any “elite” units after Marian reforms, so these guys are it. It makes sense that they’re in line with the elites of other factions.

[Dardo21]

Oh, is that a thing in DeI? I was under the impression that early versions of Rome 2 had 2 separate armor value for shield and body-armor but that that was later done away with in favor or just 1 combined armor value.

Shields can have both armor, melee defence and ranged block chance. We did away with the armor since that always applied to a unit I believe, but various types of shields can have a varying degree of melee and ranged defense. With the Roman shields being the best as nvhanputten pointed out, the thueros being in the middle, and smaller or older type shields being less sturdy against ranged or melee attacks f.e.

[Xeksirt]

I sabotaged an army and so they couldn't reinforce, but they still reinforced. wtf?

[antred]

You are correct regarding armor, but shields contribute melee defense to the front and left as well as missile block chance from those directions. Different shields have different values for each. The scutum is a generally superior shield, particularly for missile block.

Interesting. I wish things like these would also be shown in the unit stats display.

[Dardo21]

The melee defense is shown when you hover over the stat I believe.

[Loyt]

I think those Cimbri units are supposed to have the barbarian shield wall formation rather than the hoplite phalanx formation, it was just a mistaken entry.

Same error with Leugoz (Lugii) general bodyguard Koisi Toutaginoi. It has hoplite phalanx instead of shieldwall.

[Nikēphoros]

Hi everyone!!

I've been in this forum for a long time as DEI gave tonnes of great plyingtime, but i didn't write much.

I have some thoughts that I would like to share regarding the hellenics navies, specially the Seleucid one. I was wondering, why they are only able to construct only until a penteres? I know that historically they didn'tshine in sea warfare but Antiochus the Great navy have a few sixs (Hexeres) and sevens (Hepteres). Also Macedon has records of large ships if I 'am correct.

Nevertheless, perhaps removing them is a decition you make in order to give some extra edge to more succesfull seawarfare nations such as Rodhes or Egypt. Maybe in order to keep that supperior navy for the Ptolemaioi the hability to build this ships fpr the Seleucids or Macedon can be linked to the Imperium Level or somehting like that (Only a thought ).

Thanks again for your work!! Your are amazing!!

[The Wandering Storyteller]

Does anyone have a save file of
Mauyras ruling a vast large expanse over the world?

I'm struggling in DEI and I'm playing the Data Mod and I need a guide to get me started. I don't know if all the updates to DEI has made the guide system
obselete?

[Dead*Man*Wilson]

The guides are only a couple years old and are still useful and relevant. DV is a challenging submod imo, so I'm sure that's factoring in. Ygraine wants us all to die