Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Voivodate of Wallachia

[Visarion]

Well in 1166 the Byzantines prepared a surprise attack with two armies, one from the south of Danube like the Hungarians were used to and another one attacking from Tauro-Scythia or Halych and having the Vlachs as allies, attacking the Hungarians with the aid of the Vlachs and with military access through their lands. They don't say that they were helped by the Vlachs who came there from south of the Danube but the ones who were there since they came from Italy and further most they do not call them subjects of the Hungarians, Kievans nor Bulgarians and neither do they call them "our vassals". This is why I suggest the Duchy of Fogaras (Terra Alaut) ruled by Bezerenbam, the forefather of Basarab (Bazaraad). While Transalpina ruled by Miseslav and followed by Seneslav was occupied by Tartats untill 1292, Fogaras was free and the place from where Negru Voda with Catholic, Orthodox and Saxon followers took over Transalpina from across the mountains from the Mongol/Tartar horde. Lytuoy was defeated in a very bloody and costly series of battles by his former allies, the Hungarians but his people were not subjugated but ransomed Barbath, the brother of Lytuoy and negociated a peace and vassalage. Still Barbath lost influence in the area and the honorific title of Ban of Severin held by his brother and most likely the new Ban subdued him as later the Ban is mentioned as a contester of Basarab I.

[Visarion]

They were not literate but many poems were transmited orally and in many cases when a poem transmited from generation to generation, local legends were searched they were proved to be based on real facts.

[Visarion]

Well that is exactly what me and Ltd. agreed upon: a tier 1 multiethnic commonwealth of Vlach, Cuman/Pecheneg and Saxon elements, a tier 2 of local lords Boieri and Mosneni troops as well as the start of proffesional retinue elements like the Viteji and Curteni and the paid Burghers of Mircea the Elder and a tier 3 representation of the Order of the Dragon or the triple alliance and Christian gate of Vlad "the Impaler" Dracula, Stephen the Great and Mathias Corvin, alliance established through the diplomatic efforts of John Hunyadi. I mean afterall all the "Carpathian guards" faced the Mongols before reaching Hungary. The system worked. There is no mentioning of the "Vlachs vassals of Bulgarians" facing the horde as was the case of the refference to Menumorut Duke of the Khazars loyal to Constantinople.

[Visarion]

False, other units are planned as well.

[zsimmortal]

False, other units are planned as well.

Not to my knowledge. There might be more units later on (same disclaimer as all the factions), but, as far as I know, these are the only planned Vlach units. Ltd is probably in a better position to answer you, howver, from what he has told me, it appears he has already moved on from this faction.

[Visarion]

No, I collaborated with him for this faction and we still have some representative units to add including Moldavian AoR as both Mircea the Elder and his grandson were king-makers... Mircea the Elder sustaining Alexander the Good and John Hunyadi giving sanctuary to both Vlad and Stephen and sustaining them, policy continued by his son. Mircea himself will be given back his throne by the Hungarians and the additional tiles of Duke of Fogaras and Ban of Severin and the adiacent territories. Later Vlad will aid Stephen with a 6,000 cavalry contingent sent in Moldavia to pacify the country and end the civil war. Mathias will grant Stephen his inheritance in Maramaros for the efforts done against the Ottomans and Stephen will return the favour to Vlad by giving him 4,000 infantry Voinici guards who in the 15th century adopted the halberd. They will stay with him untill his very end even after the aid sent by Mathias, the Transylvanians and Szeklers will return home but not before pacifying the country. So this was the agreement. A mixed ethnic starting state, a new nation of Wallachians and ultimately a triple alliance participating jointly in Crusades and focusing as guards for the Saxon merchant entity to function properly and trade with the Venetians and even Poles and Lithuanians. Also from time to time Polish and HRE overlordship.

[Visarion]

Wallachia will be basically the "Teutonic Order" of the Hungarians and the HRE elements favourable to the Hungarians and against Bohemia and Bavaria in other words, from the begining to the end, a guard for Hermannstadt and Kronstadt and also Nosnerland, Temeswar, Arad and Transylvania proper together with the Szeklers while Maramaros was a buffer state if Transylvania was breached as was the case in the second Mongolian invasion. The pawns of this strategy were Duchy of Fogaras, Kenazate of Hatzeg, Banate of Severin, County of Temeswar and Kronstadt, territories between realms, deffensive marks, later even Mark of Molvabanya, centres of multiethnic communities where commerce flourished between Vlachs, Cumans and Pechenegs, Jasz, Saxons. Vlachs and Szeklers over the time became the predominant people of the Carpathian passes and protectors of the Hungarians and Saxons and included the Slavic, Khazar, Alan-Jasz and Avar elements that lost identity. Later same happened with the Cumans, Pechenegs and the Oghuz.

[Visarion]

Ltd. said that he will try his best to claim a slot for a Voivodate of Maramaros to become Voivodate of Moldavia if not the Voievodate of Terra Bordini of Ploskanea starting as a Cuman vassal faction to become the Principality of Moldavia. Terra Bordini or Bordinia as names are also options.

[zsimmortal]

Ltd. said that he will try his best to claim a slot for a Voivodate of Maramaros to become Voivodate of Moldavia if not the Voievodate of Terra Bordini of Ploskanea starting as a Cuman vassal faction to become the Principality of Moldavia. Terra Bordini or Bordinia as names are also options.

While he might have told you that, I have never heard of this, so I assume it is not happening. I would firmly oppose it if it came to be discussed.

[Ltd.]

Ltd. said that he will try his best to claim a slot for a Voivodate of Maramaros to become Voivodate of Moldavia if not the Voievodate of Terra Bordini of Ploskanea starting as a Cuman vassal faction to become the Principality of Moldavia. Terra Bordini or Bordinia as names are also options.

Hold on, hold on: I don't remember having ever said to open up other slots for neither the moldavians nor other factions, if for no other reason then because I want this mod to be done as soon as possible instead of dragging it out even longer.
I agreed on adding more units to the Wallachians, since this was my plan in the first place anyway.

On the other hand, I / we appreciate our fan's and the community's excitement and their desire to make the mod more complete and accurate with the most factions possible included, but everyone needs to understand that we the mod creators are doing this in our free time and at some point we would like this "child" to be born.
We want to play with this mod as well, not just keep creating it until we get bored by it ...

Also, let's pay more attention to who we want to accuse of what. We really have been creating rosters even for factions we have been unfamiliar with, which entails a lot of research so it really is not a matter of bias or xenophobia...

[Visarion]

Well if you are for the Cuman-Kypchak to be split into tribal leaders as factions than you must include the Bordini and their Voivode Ploskanea, faction that will evolve in tier 2 into a Vlach, Tartar and Cuman commonwealth and in tier 3 into the Moldavian Voivodeship given the fact that you chose the exact path for the Kwarazmian Empire. Your past decisions oblige you to do so otherwise I will accuse you of prefferential treatment and xenophobia.

[zsimmortal]

Well if you are for the Cuman-Kypchak to be split into tribal leaders as factions than you must include the Bordini and their Voivode Ploskanea, faction that will evolve in tier 2 into a Vlach, Tartar and Cuman commonwealth and in tier 3 into the Moldavian Voivodeship given the fact that you chose the exact path for the Kwarazmian Empire. Your past decisions oblige you to do so otherwise I will accuse you of prefferential treatment and xenophobia.

I neither know about the Cuman tribes nor do I see the need for each Cuman tribe to have their own separate rosters. But that is not up to me to begin with.

The Khwarazmian direction is based on regional successors, not some kind of plot to make it into another faction entirely to suit my own agenda. My decisions do not set any kind of precedent to begin with, as they are mine and this a collaborative project. However, you still fail to properly present some kind of factual base to support your claims, which makes it exceptionally difficult to both trust the statement and to implement it in a concrete way without contradicting our policies.

If you feel that I am giving certain factions preferential treatment and am xenophobic, that is entirely up to you. I believe that I have been fair and consistent in how I deal with the various elements of this mod.

[Darios]

Well if you are for the Cuman-Kypchak to be split into tribal leaders as factions than you must include the Bordini and their Voivode Ploskanea, faction that will evolve in tier 2 into a Vlach, Tartar and Cuman commonwealth and in tier 3 into the Moldavian Voivodeship given the fact that you chose the exact path for the Kwarazmian Empire. Your past decisions oblige you to do so otherwise I will accuse you of prefferential treatment and xenophobia.

Come now Visarion, let's be reasonable. While Wallachia is already a big enough of a stretch as it is, I do not agree that Moldova should be an emergent faction in he mod. There's a huge historical and geopolitical gap between AD 1212 and 1353 when Moldova was founded. The founding was also dependent on various geopolitical events that might not exactly replicate in this mod.

Creating the Voivodate of Maramaros would open the floodgates towards depicting every minor dukedom that existed in Europe during the time...which might not be a good thing.

Oh... yes... even now there are ethnic Bulgarians around there... alongside the Gagauzi... sure they can receive that region as to ballance things a bit... no problem... I told this even before...

The medieval population of Bulgarians in southern Moldova and Budjak were assimilated into the ethnic Moldovan population centuries ago. The Bulgarians and Gagauzi populations living there today are of relatively recent origin - they were settled there by the Imperial Russian authorities during the 19th century.

[Maroni_The_Bat2]

Visarion.... Kwarazm is WAY more important and relevant to that of Moldavia. Accusing them of Xenophobia and differential treatment will NOT help your case. Be happy Wallachia is even in.

[lion8000]

FrozenmenSS in 1300 ad. the city Mavrocastro (modern Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi in Ukraine) was returned to Bulgaria by khan Toktu of the Golden horde. Also the Bulgarian ethnic and political presence in the lands beyond the Danube in the first third of the XIVth century has been evidenced by the arabian geographer Abufeda (1273-1331 ad).

[FrozenmenSS]

FrozenmenSS in 1300 ad. the city Mavrocastro (modern Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi in Ukraine) was returned to Bulgaria by khan Toktu of the Golden horde. Also the Bulgarian ethnic and political presence in the lands beyond the Danube in the first third of the XIVth century has been evidenced by the arabian geographer Abufeda (1273-1331 ad).

Yp til the 1330s Bulgaria held Southern Moldavia and from then on Moldavia was on its own.Wallachia ,even in the Collapse of the Bullgarian realms, was ally/vassal to the Bulgarians against the Ottomans till the end with Mircea the Elder.Why he did this in the first place?He was instaled as a ruler of Wallachia in 1386 by Tzar Ivan Shishman in the first place. Second common interests and so on.

[Visarion]

You mean Dobrudja? Yes they were there... there is no doubt about it... until the first half of the XX-th century even... Dobrudja had a Bulgarian majority. Romanians did try to shift the ballance of the population by mass migration of Moldavian and deported indebted nobles from Baragan and also by inviting Germans, Italians and encouraging Greeks to establish here from Bessarabia and Crimea alongside the already existing Greek population. It is true if that is what you mean. Dobrudja was and should have been a Bulgarian territory if not Greek.

[lion8000]

Actually I was speaking about the city Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi in modern day Ukraine, which is on the Dniester river. Also Abufeda is speaking about the Dniester river.

[Visarion]

Oh... yes... even now there are ethnic Bulgarians around there... alongside the Gagauzi... sure they can receive that region as to ballance things a bit... no problem... I told this even before...

[Visarion]

Yes but Voivodate of Maramarus was the factor that concluded the Moldavian autonomous Principality, the victor of the Golden Horde, it's not just any "minor" faction. They defeated the Hungarians, Poles and the mighty Ottomans altogether it's not just a thorn in the heel. It's not negligible quantity. Plus Maramaros together with Hungary and Szeklers defeated both the Cumans and Tartars at the end of the 13th and begining of the 14th century and was the leader of the anti-Tartar/Cuman campaign.