Some questions and comments from playing as Baktria

[(:Baktra:)]

Hi, I’m a longtime fan of EB and I am loving version 2.2f of EB2. The BAI and CAI are tremendous improvements. On the campaign map, I now have to be wary of the neighboring factions, because they are more aggressive and will attack me if my garrisons are too low. The CAI is considerably smarter than it was before. The BAI now really puts up a good fight, and will generally win if they have a superior cavalry force or higher quality troops. I have been playing as Baktria and am enjoying the in-game missions. Having to pay the 3000mani to the Seleucid Empire really makes you cautious with how you spend your money or who you fight with.

As I have been playing Baktria, I have come up with a few comments and questions that I think might be helpful to point out.

Seleucid Army Compositions
First, I just wanted to comment on the Seleucid Army Compositions. After I declared myself independent from the Seleucids, they began to attack me. The longer I was at war with them the more elite armies they would send. One army they attacked me with had at least 4 units of Hypaspistai, 4 units of Median Cavalry, and 2 units of Agema Phalangitai as well as regular phalangitai and other good quality units. Many other armies they attacked with had Hypaspistai, Hetairoi, and Agema Phalangitai. (Sorry for not having any pictures)

Baktrian Army Compositions
What is an acceptable historical amount of cavalry for a Baktrian Army?

Baktrian Independence Fail-safe
Have there been any thoughts about implementing a fail-safe to the Baktrian Independence script? When you declare yourself independent from the Seleucids, you have to capture 3 settlements and beat 4 of their armies in battle. What if the Seleucids have lost their territories on your borders to another faction? Then you would have to travel across another faction’s boundaries to fight the Seleucids far away from your own territory. I just wanted to mention it because it happened to me in the last patch.

Questions about Unit Recruitment
Akkadian Heavy Infantry
I noticed that I can recruit Akkadian Heavy Infantry in Oskobara (the settlement east of Baktria). When I looked at the recruitment viewer I saw that Akkadian infantry are mainly recruitable in the Near East and Persia and there was a big gap between that area and Oskobara. I was just wondering why they are recruitable outside of their traditional area of recruitment.

Median Cavalry
I saw the same abnormality when I looked at Median Cavalry. Why are Median Cavalry recruitable in the Oskobara when their traditional recruitment area is Persia?

Hippakontistai
I looked at Hippakontistai on the recruitment viewer as well and I saw that they are recuitable almost anywhere in the map except for a few places. The first one was North Africa, which I can understand, but the second were the 3 settlements surrounding Baktria (Antiocheia Margianes, Marakanda, and Kapisha). I am just wondering why they are not recruitable in those 3 settlements when they are recuitable almost everywhere else in the world?

Indian Cavalry
From looking at the recruitment viewer I just wanted to ask why are Indian Cavalry recruitable in Haomavarganu-Agu.

Alexandreia-Eschate
As far as recruitment goes, I find the settlement of Alexandreia-Eschate to be a little strange to In the settlements on every side but north of it have recruitment of some Hellenistic and Eastern units. Why is recruitment limited to just Saka steppe units in Alexandreia-Eschate? Even in Chach, Shahr, and Haomavarganu-Agu you can recruit some non-steppe units.

I hope this helps in some way. You guys did an amazing job making this game and I can’t wait to see the next release.

[QuintusSertorius]

Hi, I’m a longtime fan of EB and I am loving version 2.2f of EB2. The BAI and CAI are tremendous improvements. On the campaign map, I now have to be wary of the neighboring factions, because they are more aggressive and will attack me if my garrisons are too low. The CAI is considerably smarter than it was before. The BAI now really puts up a good fight, and will generally win if they have a superior cavalry force or higher quality troops. I have been playing as Baktria and am enjoying the in-game missions. Having to pay the 3000mani to the Seleucid Empire really makes you cautious with how you spend your money or who you fight with.

As I have been playing Baktria, I have come up with a few comments and questions that I think might be helpful to point out.

Seleucid Army Compositions
First, I just wanted to comment on the Seleucid Army Compositions. After I declared myself independent from the Seleucids, they began to attack me. The longer I was at war with them the more elite armies they would send. One army they attacked me with had at least 4 units of Hypaspistai, 4 units of Median Cavalry, and 2 units of Agema Phalangitai as well as regular phalangitai and other good quality units. Many other armies they attacked with had Hypaspistai, Hetairoi, and Agema Phalangitai. (Sorry for not having any pictures)

Medians aren't elites, and the Seleukids should be making a lot of use of them. For the others, there's a definite (hardcoded) issue with the AI grouping like units together. The Seleukids only have two places they can recruit Hypaspistai, Hetairoi and Agema Phalangitai, so they're clearly directing their recruitment of them at you.

More generally, recruitment priority is proving a very tricky thing to balance just right, I'm still working on it.

Baktrian Army Compositions
What is an acceptable historical amount of cavalry for a Baktrian Army?

They used a lot; both local and Hellenised/Hellenistic units too. Greeks in Baktrian armies preferred to fight in the saddle if possible. I don't think we ever produced a historical composition for them (some factions are still a WIP), but having 2-3 Greek units and 2-4 locals isn't outlandish in a full stack.

Baktrian Independence Fail-safe
Have there been any thoughts about implementing a fail-safe to the Baktrian Independence script? When you declare yourself independent from the Seleucids, you have to capture 3 settlements and beat 4 of their armies in battle. What if the Seleucids have lost their territories on your borders to another faction? Then you would have to travel across another faction’s boundaries to fight the Seleucids far away from your own territory. I just wanted to mention it because it happened to me in the last patch.

There's already a failsafe - if they have less than 6 provinces it's automatic. However, I wonder if Baktria and Hayastan each need more specific ones too.

Questions about Unit Recruitment
Akkadian Heavy Infantry
I noticed that I can recruit Akkadian Heavy Infantry in Oskobara (the settlement east of Baktria). When I looked at the recruitment viewer I saw that Akkadian infantry are mainly recruitable in the Near East and Persia and there was a big gap between that area and Oskobara. I was just wondering why they are recruitable outside of their traditional area of recruitment.

Median Cavalry
I saw the same abnormality when I looked at Median Cavalry. Why are Median Cavalry recruitable in the Oskobara when their traditional recruitment area is Persia?

Hippakontistai
I looked at Hippakontistai on the recruitment viewer as well and I saw that they are recuitable almost anywhere in the map except for a few places. The first one was North Africa, which I can understand, but the second were the 3 settlements surrounding Baktria (Antiocheia Margianes, Marakanda, and Kapisha). I am just wondering why they are not recruitable in those 3 settlements when they are recuitable almost everywhere else in the world?

Indian Cavalry
From looking at the recruitment viewer I just wanted to ask why are Indian Cavalry recruitable in Haomavarganu-Agu.

Alexandreia-Eschate
As far as recruitment goes, I find the settlement of Alexandreia-Eschate to be a little strange to In the settlements on every side but north of it have recruitment of some Hellenistic and Eastern units. Why is recruitment limited to just Saka steppe units in Alexandreia-Eschate? Even in Chach, Shahr, and Haomavarganu-Agu you can recruit some non-steppe units.

I hope this helps in some way. You guys did an amazing job making this game and I can’t wait to see the next release.

The answer to all of these is that the RV tells you where a unit is available from for all possible sources of recruitment. Which isn't necessarily a useful guide, given that Baktria, like all Hellenistic factions, has recruitment composed of multiple sources: governments (locals only), polis buildings (Greeks), colony buildings (Hellenistic or regional professionals). Where a unit comes from is generally the explanation of why it's available.

The Native Colony is the source of most of the units you're asking about; the Akkadians were used as garrison troops out east; the Medians are recruitable outside of Media because their neighbouring professionals; the Indians are similarly neighbouring.

The Hippakontistai are available from any polis or Hellenistic Colony, which are buildable in most places; thus the RV shows them as available from almost everywhere.

As for Alexandreia-Eschate and the Sakan regions generally, that non-steppe recruitment is for the most part hypothetical, not real. The Greeks, for example, come from a polis building (a small, token pool if you really want to waste colonists out there), but unless the settlement is a city (ie non-camp) you can't actually recruit them from there. You can't actually build a polis in most of them as Baktria, because they're camps. And whether convertible or otherwise, you can't convert them.

You need to use the "buildings" view to see where you can actually get a unit from. Even then, it won't distinguish between camps and cities. It also can't check reform conditions, which affect a lot of units.

[Airos]

Euthydemus fought the Seleucids with 10 000 horsemen in the Battle of the Arius according to Polybius.

In game I use one wing on each flank, one wing being 1 shock cavalry and 2 Horse archer. With 2 generals in reserve. Didn't feel outlandish with your neighbors being cavalry heavy themselves.

[Sarkiss]

There's already a failsafe - if they have less than 6 provinces it's automatic. However, I wonder if Baktria and Hayastan each need more specific ones too.

can this provinces be tracked at all, and/or track the amount of the provinces held by Hayastan/Baktria vs Seleukids?

The Native Colony is the source of most of the units you're asking about...

The Native Colony is a misnomer and is rather misleading imho. colony is, to quote Cambridge dictionary, "a country or area controlled politically by a more powerful country that is often far away". in other words, colony consists of foreigners but since it is "native" it cannot, by definition, be called a "colony". rather, wouldnt a "Native Settlement" or a "Native Community" be more appropriate and less confusing?

[QuintusSertorius]

can this provinces be tracked at all, and/or track the amount of the provinces held by Hayastan/Baktria vs Seleukids?

Provinces can be tracked, but to keep it all within one monitor, it only makes sense to track Seleukid ownership (doesn't matter who the new owner is), since its about their decline. I'm thinking for Hayastan if they no longer own Killikia, Syria, Syria-Koile, Assyrie, Adiabene, Media and Mesopotamia (obviously a different set for Baktria), that would be a good intermediate failsafe. Leaving the 5 or less provinces in place if they manage to retain one or more of those even while losing everything else.

The Native Colony is a misnomer and is rather misleading imho. colony is, to quote Cambridge dictionary, "a country or area controlled politically by a more powerful country that is often far away". in other words, colony consists of foreigners but since it is "native" it cannot, by definition, be called a "colony". rather, wouldnt a "Native Settlement" or a "Native Community" be more appropriate and less confusing?

It's right there in the description of the building; it's for the settlement of native and neighbouring professional units. The settling part is why it's a colony.

[Sarkiss]

It's right there in the description of the building; it's for the settlement of native and neighbouring professional units. The settling part is why it's a colony.

to my mind you cannot be both a native and a colonist - an Englishman from Yorkshire cannot leave in a colony down in London, if that makes sense. a native military settlement perhaps, to better reflect the settling part instead of a foreign element that is implied by a colony? nitpicking here.

Provinces can be tracked, but to keep it all within one monitor, it only makes sense to track Seleukid ownership (doesn't matter who the new owner is), since its about their decline. I'm thinking for Hayastan if they no longer own Killikia, Syria, Syria-Koile, Assyrie, Adiabene, Media and Mesopotamia (obviously a different set for Baktria), that would be a good intermediate failsafe. Leaving the 5 or less provinces in place if they manage to retain one or more of those even while losing everything else.

i think two factors should be considered here: 1 - a physical proximity between the client and the Seleukids; 2 - importance of a given province in helping to sustain the Seleukid imperial status. as such most of those provinces you've listed qualify by the virtue of falling into one or both of the above categories; most apart from Syria-Koile, which is neither originally Seleukid (being taken from the Ptolemies) nor was a true source of Seleukid resources and strengths (like northern Syria was in terms of revenues and manpower, or Babylonia that was a huge source of revenues and a breadbasket).

[QuintusSertorius]

to my mind you cannot be both a native and a colonist - an Englishman from Yorkshire cannot leave in a colony down in London, if that makes sense. a native military settlement perhaps, to better reflect the settling part instead of a foreign element that is implied by a colony? nitpicking here.

I don't see any issue with the semantics of it at all. You could have a colony of Yorkshiremen in London, if they all gather in a particular place and make that their own. They're still "foreign" to Londoners.

i think two factors should be considered here: 1 - a physical proximity between the client and the Seleukids; 2 - importance of a given province in helping to sustain the Seleukid imperial status. as such most of those provinces you've listed qualify by the virtue of falling into one or both of the above categories; most apart from Syria-Koile, which is neither originally Seleukid (being taken from the Ptolemies) nor was a true source of Seleukid resources and strengths (like northern Syria was in terms of revenues and manpower, or Babylonia that was a huge source of revenues and a breadbasket).

Syria-Koile/Damaskos is Seleukid at the start of the game. The ones listed are the bulk of their western heartland (and bordering the Caucasus).

[Sarkiss]

I don't see any issue with the semantics of it at all. You could have a colony of Yorkshiremen in London, if they all gather in a particular place and make that their own. They're still "foreign" to Londoners.

yes, but by the same token i have hard time calling their colony native.

Syria-Koile/Damaskos is Seleukid at the start of the game. The ones listed are the bulk of their western heartland (and bordering the Caucasus).

sorry, my mistake, didnt realise that we have 2 provinces there and took Syria-Koile as representing the rest of the Syria - all of its southern part. (hard to focus when you have two kids trying to climb your head as you type:-))

regardless, all the provinces you've listed are good, imho, all but Syria Koile/Damaskos that is neither bordering Yervanduni domains nor is a crucial linchpin in Seleukid's realm. i'd therefore exclude it.

[QuintusSertorius]

yes, but by the same token i have hard time calling their colony native.

It's both native and neighbouring. Native Colony is less of a mouthful. Besides if you take people from the immediate countryside and settle them on good land around the main urban centres, they're no less imposed than if they'd come from the next region.

sorry, my mistake, didnt realise that we have 2 provinces there and took Syria-Koile as representing the rest of the Syria - all of its southern part. (hard to focus when you have two kids trying to climb your head as you type:-))

regardless, all the provinces you've listed are good, imho, all but Syria Koile/Damaskos that is neither bordering Yervanduni domains nor is a crucial linchpin in Seleukid's realm. i'd therefore exclude it.

It's more about a contiguous bloc - those seven form one big mass comprising the majority of the Seleukids non-Anatolian western holdings (and both capitals). If they lose that, Anatolia and the east would be completely separated, as good as two completely different kingdoms.