Proposal - Women, Marriages and Dowries

**Poach** · December 30, 2016, 04:15 PM

A discussion among the mods ended up with this proposal formed to deal with women. As a disclaimer (which is also present in the proposal), we know it's sexist, but we're RPing a sexist culture.

Women

Women in Westeros lived deeply unequal lives, where they were seen primarily as wives and mothers. As Westerosi society was openly and thoroughly patriarchal, they enjoyed few rights of their own, and were especially vulnerable if they were without a husband, father or brother to protect them.

As such, Lordly female characters and NPCs are subject to a number of additional rules and restrictions. These are as follows:

- They will lose control of their titles when married, with the husband assuming control of them.

- They may be married off by their male guardian to a suitor of the man's choice. In practice fathers and brothers would often attempt to compromise, finding both a "good husband" that also represented a favourable political alliance, but the final legal decision rested with the male guardian and he may marry his ward off to an awful person for political gain if he pleases. Guardians will first be their fathers, then brothers (specifically the brother that assumes his father's title), then their liege lord (if she has no father or brothers alive). Female heiresses were therefore particularly valuable pawns, as their new husband would assume control of their estates.

- If the guardian is their liege lord, he may assume effective control over the woman's estate, and would often appoint a castellan to control that estate's affairs. In practice this means the liege lord may apply any level of taxation without penalty (up to 100%), may direct the construction or destruction of buildings, and the hiring, dismissal, and control of standing forces. Any vassals the woman would have by virtue of her title will report directly to her liege lord instead.

These rules apply mainly to female aristocrats: non-noble women (merchants, sellswords, smallfolk) are not bound by these rules, unless they come into control of land and titles.

OOC Note: The moderators know that this represents a deeply sexist set of rules, but we must bear in mind that we're roleplaying a medieval society, which was deeply sexist. We know a number of players have a preference for playing female main characters, and as such what we'd suggest is you create a husband for them who lives in the shadow of his wife: a meek, timid man who defers to his wife on all matters. This allows you to use your female character as the main character while also protecting you from these rules, but without creating a scenario that breaks the rules of the society we're trying to roleplay.

You may decide to go with having a woman ruling in her own right anyway, but be warned that you will be more vulnerable to subterfuge as a result. Defying your liege if he decides to marry you off or tax your estates will still count as rebellion.

Marriages and Dowries

Introduction

Marriages were political among Westerosi nobility: few married for love. Due to the feudal nature of Westerosi society, marriages were the most secure and enduring way to form alliances between families, something that was crucial both in social advancement and in protecting oneself: a family with no friends was vulnerable to attempts to seize their lands and titles by subterfuge.

With this in mind, marriages can only be seen as political: two families were agreeing to support and cooperate with each other, militarily if necessary. Lords Paramount would most regularly marry their sons and daughters to prominent Bannermen from within their own realm in order to shore up support, or to well-regarded suitors from elsewhere (Princes, tourney champions, wealthy noble families in order to secure a good dowry).

Lords Paramount forming marriage alliances with other Lords Paramount would be seen by the Crown as a deliberate statement, and likely as a threat: two Kingdoms forming so close a bond would lessen the Crown's ability to control them.

Rules

Due to how political marriages are, a few rules need to be established to best allow players to exploit this and to react to other marriages.

1. Betrothals must be announced in the realm-wide announcement thread. Once announced, the marriage may take place 72 hours (3 RL days) afterwards. This is to allow other players to react, either in arranging their own counter-betrothals or in attempting to sabotage your own (convincing the Faith to declare the marriage void for some fabricated reason, trying to get the son forced to the Night's Watch or Kingsguard, so on...).

2. The party providing the bride must also provide a dowry. The dowry expected by AI Lords (as a guide for players) will be calculated as follows:

- For players of the same rank (eg High Lord family marrying into High Lord family), the dowry will be 25% of the husband's family's yearly province income. (eg for a 60,000 Dragon province, the bride's family will be expected to provide 15,000 Dragons as a dowry).

- For a 1 rank difference (eg Minor Lord marrying into High Lord), the dowry will be 75% of the husband's family's yearly income (eg 45,000 Dragons).

- For a 2 rank difference (eg a Knight marrying into a High Lord family), the dowry will be 150% of the husband's family's income (eg 90,000 Dragons).

- Lords with a land income above 30,000 Dragons will not normally consider allowing a non-noble to wed their children. If this comes up, moderators will deal with it on a case-by-case basis, but be warned we must start from a position of rejecting the request unless an excellent case can be provided for it. For very poor minor Lords it was not uncommon for marriages of their daughters to wealthy merchants to be arranged, but for wealthy Lords, High Lords, and Lords Paramount it would normally be a source of considerable embarrassment for one of their children to marry a commoner.

- Something of similar value may also be accepted, with moderators treating partial or entire non-monetary dowries on a case by case basis.

Bear in mind that provision of the dowry doesn't mean the marriage will be agreed to. Families were always striving to marry at or above their station. As such, a family accepting a marriage from a lower station would need to be convinced of the merits of such an alliance. This naturally doesn't apply to Lords Paramount, who by convention would normally form marriages with their prominent Bannermen or prominent Houses from other Kingdoms.

**Xion** · January 01, 2017, 02:11 PM

Will the women rules apply to Dorne in the same manner they do to an Andal/First Man realm, or will they be different? As Dorne's culture is different than the rest of the realm due to the influence of the Rhoynar, with women having equal rights in inheritance laws and apparently ruling their own lands after marrying (I can provide a few examples if required), which would negate the first rule, and part of the second I think.

**Dirty Chai** · January 01, 2017, 02:20 PM

It doesn't apply to Dorne, no. Parentless children/minors are still under the authority of their liege though, regardless of gender.

**Adamat** · January 02, 2017, 04:46 PM

If a landholding Lady marries a guy with children from an earlier marriage, will the title pass on to her eldest child or his? Also, any way to implement some form of matri marriages since technically we're playing a dynasty and not a geographical location?

**Dirty Chai** · January 02, 2017, 05:45 PM

Unnecessary as just because your child has a different surname doesn't mean you don't get to play as him/her...

Consider that England's monarchy has had like several different patrilineal lines ruling it - the descent from William the Conqueror is matrilineal, but we tend to consider it one long dynasty despite that.