ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

[Nebaki]

So now you want to lie?

You claim Wikipedia claims that Turkey uses the Eurofighter.

I never did that, it was moreover sarcastic, but only someone like you can take an Wikipedia Article Serious. Wikipedia just uses the Sources on the Web which are most oftenly from DIY-Websites or just some claims by some Political officials, anyone there can edit those listings on these so called "encyclopedia" .

https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/arti...n-idlib-photo/

You are really bad a lying. My source still has the picture posted right in its article and has not taken it down.
In fact here's the image:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Waiting for that reply. Or do you at least admit your point was wrong and i was right?

First of all your Source is called "almasdarnews" is something that no one else here beyond ever hearing of it. The Source of these so called "almasdarnews" is this: https://twitter.com/humamisa/status/1226940514341195776
another clickbait of some wannabe Geo-Politicals-Experts on the Planet called twitter.

How it comes those twitter post does not exist anymore since it was already known to be hoax and nothing else.

But go on please enlight us of that Fourth Rate News Source Site which is in even his Class from Category D.

[Akar]

Are you seriously disparaging Wikipedia's credibility? I think we're better than talking about Wikipedia of all things, even if it disagrees with our previously held beliefs.

Wikipedia is 99.5% accurate.

https://www.zmescience.com/science/s...edia-25092014/

It is more accurate than the Encyclopedia Britannica

https://www.cnet.com/news/study-wiki...as-britannica/

[Vanoi]

I never did that, it was moreover sarcastic,

But you did. Heres your quote:

According to Wikipedia Turkey also already using F-35 and Eurofighters,

but only someone like you can take an Wikipedia Article Serious. Wikipedia just uses the Sources on the Web which are most oftenly from DIY-Websites or just some claims by some Political officials, anyone there can edit those listings on these so called "encyclopedia" .

I posted new sources that aren't Wikipedia that support my numbers from Wikipedia. You going to claim those are inaccurate too?

You are really unteachable, first of all your Source is called "almasdarnews" is something that no one else here beyond ever hearing of it

Actually the source has been used in this thread before. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't make it inaccurate.

The Source of these so called "almasdarnews" is this: https://twitter.com/humamisa/status/1226940514341195776
another clickbait of some wannabe Geo-Politicals-Experts on the Planet called twitter.

How it comes those twitter post does not exist anymore since it was already known to be hoax and nothing else.

But go on please enlight us of that Fourth Rate News Source Site which is in even his Class from Category D.

Is that the best you got? First you claim my picture is two years old and yet couldn't prove it. You claimed my source took down the picture because it was fake. Both weren't true. You still haven't proven the picture is fake abd simply claiming it is because its from Twitter will get you no where. Abdul posted pictures himself and show the M113 like mine does. Good luck simply explaining those away.

Feel free to address my new sources from my last post. These aren't Wikipedia so i'm curious to how you'll explain them away too.

[Nebaki]

I posted new sources that aren't Wikipedia that support my numbers from Wikipedia. You going to claim those are inaccurate too?

Then please post so-called "Sources" again, i bet these are from some known lovevly news formed wannabe news Agency.

Actually the source has been used in this thread before. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't make it inaccurate.

Of course i did not hear it before, i don´t spend my time on something that you are believing to be an reliable "Source" - So your Source takes some twitter posts, makes a big headline and starts with "...according to blablabla" and then "...X Country is Operating from Y Country made Products" and "...South Carolina is sooo boring" ?

Is that the best you got? First you claim my picture is two years old and yet couldn't prove it. You claimed my source took down the picture because it was fake. Both weren't true. You still haven't proven the picture is fake abd simply claiming it is because its from Twitter will get you no where. Abdul posted pictures himself and show the M113 like mine does. Good luck simply explaining those away.

Feel free to address my new sources from my last post. These aren't Wikipedia so i'm curious to how you'll explain them away too.

Your funny posts Source which obtains a twitter link isn´t working since already the twitter Community proved that is was fake, blind enough your are going further and "thinking" that you are an expert of Middle East and how it comes you still allegedly defend the opinion that these M113s can only be obtained from Turkish Inventory. This is nothing else then BS of your own conviction especially in case of Turkey. Even on the uprise of ISIS there was enough M113s captured from Iraqi Army which are now spread out between Iraq and Syria. These can even be ones from Lebanon or Iran which their Militia was using - for some countries these Militias are Terrorists.

I don´t even need to prove here something since you are the only one who is blind enough to believe that Hoax. A Guy who is seriously dealing with this Actual Issue in the Middle East already can differentiate between truth and false, how to trust new Media or not. But if you want still a prove, please just download your funny pic, i will not waste my time on it, use "https://images.google.com/" and then after you scrolled from so-called "copy-paste-wannabe-news-sites" maybe you just open your eyes a little bit more.

[Vanoi]

Then please post so-called "Sources" again, i bet these are from some known lovevly news formed wannabe news Agency.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/mode...and-forces.asp

First link indicates not only does Turkey possess the M113, its still in active service as well.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/US/M113_APC.php

Of course i did not hear it before, i don´t spend my time on something that you are believing to be an reliable "Source" - So your Source takes some twitter posts, makes a big headline and starts with "...according to blablabla" and then "...X Country is Operating from Y Country made Products" and "...South Carolina is sooo boring"

Work is boring thats for sure.

Your funny posts Source which obtains a twitter link isn´t working since already the twitter Community proved that is was fake,

If they proved it was fake then post the evidence already.

blind enough your are going further and "thinking" that you are an expert of Middle East and how it comes you still allegedly defend the opinion that these M113s can only be obtained from Turkish Inventory. This is nothing else then BS of your own conviction especially in case of Turkey. Even on the uprise of ISIS there was enough M113s captured from Iraqi Army which are now spread out between Iraq and Syria. These can even be ones from Lebanon or Iran which their Militia was using - for some countries these Militias are Terrorists.

The M113s that are in the Iraqi Army are the M113A2 variant. The M113 in my picture is not a M113A2. As POVG pointed out it has no smoke grenade launchers. The M113A2 were the first to introduce the smoke grenades. Meaning the M113 in my picture is an older variant and not one captured from the Iraqi Army.

i don´t even need to prove here something since you are the only one who is blind enough to believe that Hoax. A Guy who is seriously dealing with this Actual Issue in the Middle East already can differentiate between truth and false, how to trust new Media or not. But if you want still a prove, please just download your funny pic, i will not waste my time on it, use "https://images.google.com/" and then after you scrolled from so-called "copy-paste-wannabe-news-sites" maybe you just open your eyes a little bit more.

Jus because you lack evidence for your claims doesn't mean mine is wrong.

[PointOfViewGun]

The M113s that are in the Iraqi Army are the M113A2 variant. The M113 in my picture is not a M113A2. As POVG pointed out it has no smoke grenade launchers. The M113A2 were the first to introduce the smoke grenades. Meaning the M113 in my picture is an older variant and not one captured from the Iraqi Army.

Sigh... This seems to be needed to be pointed out. You're saying that since the M113 in the picture does not have the smoke grenade launchers its an older variant. What the picture showed was an M113 with the housing for the grenade but no grenades. The attachment is clearly visible. It was a stripped down M113 as I pointed out before. Why you rely on such pointless arguments is beyond me. By all means, continue...

[Vanoi]

Sigh... This seems to be needed to be pointed out. You're saying that since the M113 in the picture does not have the smoke grenade launchers its an older variant. What the picture showed was an M113 with the housing for the grenade but no grenades. The attachment is clearly visible. It was a stripped down M113 as I pointed out before. Why you rely on such pointless arguments is beyond me. By all means, continue...

Funny enough my point still stands as Turkey possess those variants as well. You still haven't explained how an M113 that has switched hands in the war still looks like its in great condition for seeing years of warfare. Both you and Nebaki have consistently ignored that point. And you say my argument is pointless? Both you and Nebaki can barely form an argument let alone actually prove your point.

[sumskilz]

Here is a video: https://twitter.com/Zinvor/status/1230501637468323841

Looks like the source is HTS themselves.

[PointOfViewGun]

Funny enough my point still stands as Turkey possess those variants as well. You still haven't explained how an M113 that has switched hands in the war still looks like its in great condition for seeing years of warfare. Both you and Nebaki have consistently ignored that point. And you say my argument is pointless? Both you and Nebaki can barely form an argument let alone actually prove your point.

How does an equipment built decades ago looks decent? Paint job? Just because 1-2 M113 vehicles don't look bullet ridden doesn't make it come from some non-existent Turkish factory that kept producing them after all these years.

[sumskilz]

How does an equipment built decades ago looks decent? Paint job?

The paint job, as in the particular camo pattern, on the M113 in the HTS video I linked is identical to these Turkish M113s. It's almost certainly of Turkish origin however they got it, and it isn't the only one. I was going to say that if it was captured, then it was captured in remarkably good condition, but then I found this:

To clarify a detail:

TR has given the armored vehicles only to the TR-backed NLF in #Idlib only.

However, all armed groups in Idlib (except for AQ) coordinate inside the Fath al-Mubin operation room.

All factions jointly use the military gear they have & HTS fighters jump in.

[Vanoi]

How does an equipment built decades ago looks decent? Paint job? Just because 1-2 M113 vehicles don't look bullet ridden doesn't make it come from some non-existent Turkish factory that kept producing them after all these years.

You are the one who claimed these M113s were originally from FSA groups who got them from Turkey. And yet these M113s have no visible damage of any kind whatsoever. They don't even look dirty.

You honestly expect me to believe a vehicle that has seen years of warfare isn't going to have any kind of visible damage or even signs that it was used in combat in any way? Try that piss poor argument with someone who is dumb enough to believe it.

And it does not to produced recently to look new. I mean holy do you think militaries don't perform maintenance on their military equipment? To make sure they are in tip top shape and look good. God that was a argument you just tried to make.

The F-16s in Turkey's inventory are decades old, and yet i bet if you looked at a Turkish F-16 its not going to look that way. Why? Because Turkey actively maintains its armored vehicle.

[bekiristein]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...th-a-t-72-tank

Many coincidences.

[Vanoi]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...th-a-t-72-tank

Many coincidences.

Wow. At least according to your article those ACV-15s were being manned by HTS. How is HTS getting its hands on ACV-15s i wonder?

[sumskilz]

I guess I was confused about what the argument is even about. So everyone agreed all along that the HTS M113s (at least) originally came from Turkey? Then why all the talk about what is or isn't in Turkey's inventory?

[Vanoi]

I guess I was confused about what the argument is even about. So everyone agreed all along that the HTS M113s (at least) originally came from Turkey? Then why all the talk about what is or isn't in Turkey's inventory?

Well Nebaki doesn't believe they are Turkish. POVG says they are Turkish but that they are weapons captured or obtained from the FSA. My point was that they are in too good of condition to be weapons that were captured in battle or obtained from the FSA who would have been using them in combat previously. They were very likely obtained from Turkey itself.

[sumskilz]

Well Nebaki doesn't believe they are Turkish. POVG says they are Turkish but that they are weapons captured or obtained from the FSA. My point was that they are in too good of condition to be weapons that were captured in battle or obtained from the FSA who would have been using them in combat previously. They were very likely obtained from Turkey itself.

Okay, got it. They do appear to have fairly recent paint jobs identical to the Turkish M113s in the pics I found.

[PointOfViewGun]

The paint job, as in the particular camo pattern, on the M113 in the HTS video I linked is identical to these Turkish M113s. It's almost certainly of Turkish origin however they got it, and it isn't the only one. I was going to say that if it was captured, then it was captured in remarkably good condition, but then I found this:

So, Turkey gave only 2 of these? The same 2 APCs appear in all these footages...

You are the one who claimed these M113s were originally from FSA groups who got them from Turkey. And yet these M113s have no visible damage of any kind whatsoever. They don't even look dirty.
You honestly expect me to believe a vehicle that has seen years of warfare isn't going to have any kind of visible damage or even signs that it was used in combat in any way? Try that piss poor argument with someone who is dumb enough to believe it.
And it does not to produced recently to look new. I mean holy do you think militaries don't perform maintenance on their military equipment? To make sure they are in tip top shape and look good. God that was a argument you just tried to make.
The F-16s in Turkey's inventory are decades old, and yet i bet if you looked at a Turkish F-16 its not going to look that way. Why? Because Turkey actively maintains its armored vehicle.

Every single vehicle FSA operates is damaged? They're incapable of maintaining their equipment? They even produce their own. Naturally, you're cherry picking parts of a picture. Perhaps to take attention away from your failed argument about smoke grenades earlier you're lashing out. That's understandable given how you're all over the place trying to make something stick.

[Vanoi]

So, Turkey gave only 2 of these? The same 2 APCs appear in all these footages...




Every single vehicle FSA operates is damaged?

Nope but they have signs of combat and wear and tear. And hell considering the FSA is nothing but a group of rebels i highly doubt they could properly maintain any of the vehicles they possess.

They're incapable of maintaining their equipment? They even produce their own. Naturally, you're cherry picking parts of a picture.

Thats just an up-armored truck. Produced by the SNA since your link points out its the Hamza Division in that photo. Just because the SNA can produce some crappy up-armored trucks doesn't mean that rebels in Idlib like HTS or the NLF can too or that they can even properly maintain all of their vehicles.

Perhaps to take attention away from your failed argument about smoke grenades earlier you're lashing out. That's understandable given how you're all over the place trying to make something stick.

Failed argument? You still haven't proven my argument wrong yet. Your poor argument about the origins of those M113s isnt going to help you.

[PointOfViewGun]

Nope but they have signs of combat and wear and tear. And hell considering the FSA is nothing but a group of rebels i highly doubt they could properly maintain any of the vehicles they possess.
Thats just an up-armored truck. Produced by the SNA since your link points out its the Hamza Division in that photo. Just because the SNA can produce some crappy up-armored trucks doesn't mean that rebels in Idlib like HTS or the NLF can too or that they can even properly maintain all of their vehicles.
Failed argument? You still haven't proven my argument wrong yet. Your poor argument about the origins of those M113s isnt going to help you.

Sigh... And every single FSA division is constantly fighting? They received new M113s as late as last year. Why do you feel the need to resort to altering points at such a petty level? I didn't point at Hamza Division, which operates under FSA, to say they could produce M113s. Please try to focus. You already acknowledged the failure of your argument that M113s in question were an earlier model, in the worst possible manner of course, so why try to dilute that? Owning it would be better.

[Nebaki]

Just because you lack evidence for your claims doesn't mean mine is wrong.

I did not lack the evidence for my claims, but how it comes you only Argue that you are totally right here and that your "Sources" aren´t even being questionable, Your claims speak for yourself.

Wow. At least according to your article those ACV-15s were being manned by HTS. How is HTS getting its hands on ACV-15s i wonder?

It is not the HTS. But your already showed us your PoV - any Opposition who is fighting Assad of Syrian Origin is for you a Member of HTS. When it´s come to a number of Peak of the amount of HTS Members then it was nearly ~ 20000, now they are even not 6000 or even much much more less.

Turkey launched some Military Operations a few Years ago and it was not against Russian Puppet Assad or how it comes how you would say it, supporting some Jihadis. There some Groups cleary got handed 1-2 ACV-15s. Turkey even don´t denied that since it was Group of Turkmen origin.

There is a big disinformation going around the New/Social Media spreaded by Trolls or wannabe Geo-Political-Experts and without even reading it and posting like it was not even questioned just as i said speaks for yourself.