ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

[Papay]

Cool. Its not going to change the fact the SNA is composed of Islamists and jihadists known for attacking civilians and executing prisoners. This isn't even the first incident involving SNA committing war crimes. Plenty of that in Afrin too.

In fact we can compare the two groups if you want. We can look at all the groups that make up the SNA and compare them to the YPG in terms of unlawful attacks on civilians and war crimes in general. Lets see how far you'll go in defending Islamists and jihadusts while you tell me how big and bad the YPG are.

We can compare them but i wouldnt jump to the conclusion that YPG is better than FSA. They have committed one of the worst ethnic cleansings in recent memory all with the help of american airplanes. Just because media cover YPG war crimes doesnt mean that they are better

[Vanoi]

We can compare them but i wouldnt jump to the conclusion that YPG is better than FSA. They have committed one of the worst ethnic cleansings in recent memory all with the help of american airplanes. Just because media cover YPG war crimes doesnt mean that they are better

A lot of ethnic cleansing claims come from the rebels who themselves have been accused of ethnic cleansing by the Kurds in turn.

If they did commit ethnic cleansing they did a horrible job. The vast majority of YPG territory is still an Arab majority.

[PointOfViewGun]

Not my job to prove your claims. This is just you making an argument out of nothing once again to deflect criticism from the SNA.
Are you now claiming news media intentionally ignores YPG and PKK crimes? Thats mightly claim to make. You have evidence for this right?

Pointing out double standards is not really deflection of criticism. I understand why you're trying to play it that way to avoid acknowledging any wrongdoing by YPG fighters. Afterall, your entire point in that post collapsed in a single response.

Pretty much, yeah, news media is largely ignoring virtually any negative development coming from YPG/PKK. The overwhelming amount of content they put out suggests deliberate action. For starters, PKK/YPG ties are reported as purely being a Turkish claim when in fact many analysts or USA government officials and agencies point at the same ties. Any act that involves civilian Kurds get headlines while any act that involves civilian Turks either go unreported or receive a sentence or two. The language is specifically geared to portray Turkey attacking Kurds, and not YPG/PKK. There is virtually no reporting on vast collection of crimes YPG/PKK is known to have committed in the region.

[Vanoi]

Pointing out double standards is not really deflection of criticism. I understand why you're trying to play it that way to avoid acknowledging any wrongdoing by YPG fighters. Afterall, your entire point in that post collapsed in a single response.

You haven't even proven that there is double standards at play here nor did you even source the YPG soldier shooting that prisoner.

Pretty much, yeah, news media is largely ignoring virtually any negative development coming from YPG/PKK. The overwhelming amount of content they put out suggests deliberate action. For starters, PKK/YPG ties are reported as purely being a Turkish claim when in fact many analysts or USA government officials and agencies point at the same ties. Any act that involves civilian Kurds get headlines while any act that involves civilian Turks either go unreported or receive a sentence or two. The language is specifically geared to portray Turkey attacking Kurds, and not YPG/PKK. There is virtually no reporting on vast collection of crimes YPG/PKK is known to have committed in the region.

Do you have a source for your claim or not? Your conjecture is not evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sh-border-town

Took me seconds to google a story by Western media regarding the PKK.

[Papay]

A lot of ethnic cleansing claims come from the rebels who themselves have been accused of ethnic cleansing by the Kurds in turn.

If they did commit ethnic cleansing they did a horrible job. The vast majority of YPG territory is still an Arab majority.

Exactly. Guess where the Arabs went. I posted a CNN video earlier about the Al Hawl camp where Kurds have locked up 70.000 women and children under the excuse that all of them are ISIS(even the children). Under different circumstances we would draw parallels with Pol Pot and Stalin. But the west happily tolerates these behavors

[Vanoi]

Exactly. Guess where the Arabs went. I posted a CNN video earlier about the Al Hawl camp where Kurds have locked up 70.000 women and children under the excuse that all of them are ISIS(even the children).

They are IDPs and relatives of IS members which is why they are in those camps and not all of them are even Arab. 70,000 people is a drop in the bucket of the total Arab population of Northern and Eastern Syria.

Under different circumstances we would draw parallels with Pol Pot and Stalin. But the west happily tolerates these behavors

Talk about hyperbole. Pol Pot murdered 1/4 of Cambodia's population while Stalin caused the death of millions. And you think what the Kurds did draws parallels to them? There is no comparison here.

[Papay]

They are IDPs and relatives of IS members which is why they are in those camps and not all of them are even Arab. 70,000 people is a drop in the bucket of the total Arab population of Northern and Eastern Syria.
Talk about hyperbole. Pol Pot murdered 1/4 of Cambodia's population while Stalin caused the death of millions. And you think what the Kurds did draws parallels to them? There is no comparison here.

We dont know what YPG did in all those yellow areas they control. There are reports about war crimes. Only in Raqqah thousands of civilians were killed. Western media always cheer about how good kurds are but they dont report about how many civilians were killed in those campaigns. So watch out when you say that we must compare the crimes of FSA and YPG. You might be surprised by the results

[Vanoi]

We dont know what YPG did in all those yellow areas they control. There are reports about war crimes. Only in Raqqah thousands of civilians were killed. Western media always cheer about how good kurds are but they dont report about how many civilians were killed in those campaigns. So watch out when you say that we must compare the crimes of FSA and YPG. You might be surprised by the results

They did report of civilian deaths and just like in Mosul many civilian deaths have been attributed to the IS who used them as human shields. We've seen this from Iraq to Syria.

[PointOfViewGun]

You haven't even proven that there is double standards at play here nor did you even source the YPG soldier shooting that prisoner.
Do you have a source for your claim or not? Your conjecture is not evidence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sh-border-town
Took me seconds to google a story by Western media regarding the PKK.

I gave you enough reference for you to find it yourself. I'm not gonna post a video of someone getting murdered. But, there is no NYT article on it, is there? Oh well...
Your objection to my point about the media is laughably pedantic. As I said, there is virtually no reporting you only post one article. Even the article itself is a testament to the difference in narrative. The title is not "Kurds shell civilians in Turkey" but something more precise.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Unless you're writing in invisible bits, you seem to be deliberately avoiding the PKK issue, or perhaps, you welcome such terror attacks, and many other documented crimes of YPG, when they're done against others...

I'm in favour of the cause, not the means. That's far more than I can say in favour of any other faction in Syria.

I already addressed posts set up under HTS control whether it was 100 years ago or two days ago... Sigh... You should seriously do less altering of my words. No, I did not "admit" that Turkey was taming or defending HTS. I specifically pointed out that Turkey is there to defend Idlib which you prefer to ignore, and Turkey didn't tame HTS, but HTS' certain leaders that preferred to be more pragmatic did which resulted in extremists leaving HTS. Once again, please argue against what I actually say.

You addressed it by saying that they were built when there were still FSA elements in Idlib, I pointed out that the most recent one was built when there weren't any. Thus the argument "It was different because FSA was still there in 2018" doesn't work when you continue to build new ones after FSA is long gone.
Why doesn't Turkey defend north-east Syria the same way it defends Idlib then? both are controlled by what Turkey calls terrorist organisations. Why the completely opposite stances on those 2 organisations? You can't claim to be in Syria to fight terrorists while defending terrorists there.

[PointOfViewGun]

I'm in favour of the cause, not the means. That's far more than I can say in favour of any other faction in Syria.

You addressed it by saying that they were built when there were still FSA elements in Idlib, I pointed out that the most recent one was built when there weren't any. Thus the argument "It was different because FSA was still there in 2018" doesn't work when you continue to build new ones after FSA is long gone.
Why doesn't Turkey defend north-east Syria the same way it defends Idlib then? both are controlled by what Turkey calls terrorist organisations. Why the completely opposite stances on those 2 organisations? You can't claim to be in Syria to fight terrorists while defending terrorists there.

What a pathetic way to justify terrorism. Amazing how people abandon principles so easily out of convenience... No, that wasn't the only part. Rest of it addresses it devoid of the timeline... There could be ISIL in Idlib and that still wouldn't take away the value of creating a buffer zone along the border. Your attempt to portray Turkey's approach to HTS inaccurately doesn't really accomplish anything. Turkey doesn't protect HTS as it allows Syrian government and Russians to attack them freely. As a result, some of the observation points are surrounded by the Syrian themselves.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

What a pathetic way to justify terrorism. Amazing how people abandon principles so easily out of convenience...

I'm not defending terrorism. But out of all sides involved in the Syrian civil war, the YPG commit the least of it, and are fighting for a good cause.

No, that wasn't the only part. Rest of it addresses it devoid of the timeline...

So you admit that your statement about 2018 and FSA still being there then was irrelevant? okay.

There could be ISIL in Idlib and that still wouldn't take away the value of creating a buffer zone along the border.

If Turkey was actively defending ISIS territory and stopping any ground offensive targeting them? Are you joking? Of course it would.

Your attempt to portray Turkey's approach to HTS inaccurately doesn't really accomplish anything. Turkey doesn't protect HTS as it allows Syrian government and Russians to attack them freely. As a result, some of the observation points are surrounded by the Syrian themselves.

Turkey didn't "allow" them to do that, who are you kidding? They simply walked around the checkpoint, and the Turkish government/military reacted a "bit" too slowly and then when they realised what was happening they rushed in and built a new observation outpost within HTS territory to stop any further advances. They were likely planning to build it further south, in Khan Sheikhoun to stop it from falling, but the SAA bombed the road ahead of them so they had to make do.

[PointOfViewGun]

I'm not defending terrorism. But out of all sides involved in the Syrian civil war, the YPG commit the least of it, and are fighting for a good cause.
So you admit that your statement about 2018 and FSA still being there then was irrelevant? okay.
If Turkey was actively defending ISIS territory and stopping any ground offensive targeting them? Are you joking? Of course it would.
Turkey didn't "allow" them to do that, who are you kidding? They simply walked around the checkpoint, and the Turkish government/military reacted a "bit" too slowly and then when they realised what was happening they rushed in and built a new observation outpost within HTS territory to stop any further advances. They were likely planning to build it further south, in Khan Sheikhoun to stop it from falling, but the SAA bombed the road ahead of them so they had to make do.

Care to share your comprehensive data on who does how much terrorism in Syria?
You keep on focusing on your "Bible is true because Bible says so approach" but you're trampling your own ideas. Somehow Turkey not attacking HTS around its posts means they're defending them but Turkey not attacking Syrian government forces doesn't mean that. You try to oversimplify the situation on the ground for the sake of cheap wins. Again, Turkey is not defending HTS or HTS territory. They're simply there to check on Syrian government forces. Contrary to what you indicate Morek observation post is not moved. It's still there.

[PointOfViewGun]

Kurdish Fighters Mount Counterattack Using Network of Tunnels

The SDF is also skilled in employing improvised anti-tank mines and using inventive modes of transportation to move troops around the region, including school buses and pickup trucks, the officer said.

Wow. Western media is so obsessed with whitewashing YPG that they represented use of school buses to transport troops as an inventive mode of transportation. Amazing.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Care to share your comprehensive data on who does how much terrorism in Syria?

Nah, It's quite obvious when looking at the other sides of the conflict: the butcher from Damascus, ISIS and finally the guys who behead children and use SVBIED's as a military strategy.

You keep on focusing on your "Bible is true because Bible says so approach" but you're trampling your own ideas. Somehow Turkey not attacking HTS around its posts means they're defending them but Turkey not attacking Syrian government forces doesn't mean that. You try to oversimplify the situation on the ground for the sake of cheap wins. Again, Turkey is not defending HTS or HTS territory. They're simply there to check on Syrian government forces.

Because most of the territory seized was controlled by Jaish Al Izza, whose headquarters was in Lataminah. Turkey basically allowed their territory to fall and rushed in when the government began to enter HTS territory. JAI later went to join the Turkish occupied zone in the north, so I guess that worked out for Turkey.

Contrary to what you indicate Morek observation post is not moved. It's still there.

Where did I indicate this?

[ioannis76]

Looks like about 25% of the buffer zone will be accomplished by tomorrow. These are the areas with mostly Arab majority villages. Once the ground is cleared from any explosives it will be suitable to house a few hundred thousand refugees currently residing in Turkey.

Well, there have been some delays, it seems...
But to have a group of militias, MILITIAS, recapture territory from the "second strongest NATO army", not to mention the amazing performance in Sari Kani, which hasn't even been captured yet, after fierce attacks by Turkey and Co. well...

As for the attack on the convoy:

https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2019/...trike-targeted

Here is the video.

[PointOfViewGun]

The French newspaper, Le Parisien, published a story two days ago based on their journalists that followed ISIL members that were in Ain Issa detention camp. They report that the people in the camp were let go by the Kurdish fighters. The journalists followed 10 women who were French. This is the camp where 800 ISIL members were reported to escape. Earlier Turkey was blamed for freeing the prisoners...

[ioannis76]

The French newspaper, Le Parisien, published a story two days ago based on their journalists that followed ISIL members that were in Ain Issa detention camp. They report that the people in the camp were let go by the Kurdish fighters. The journalists followed 10 women who were French. This is the camp where 800 ISIL members were reported to escape. Earlier Turkey was blamed for freeing the prisoners...

That doesn't prove anything. There was a Greek journalist group organised and payed for by the turkish embassy, that went to Syria reporting pro-Turkey news. If the Turkish foreign ministry paid for the mission of Le Parisien, too, then one can expect to read such things.
The US has made it quite clear that it was Turkey that was responsible for the release of the ISIS members.
And if we were to look at it from a rational point of view, then Turkey had every interest in doing this, in order to create disturbance for the Kurds. It appears that they turned out to be more than a match for its soldiers and their affiliate groups, so Turkey needs all the help it can get.

Btw, is Erdo going to meet Pompeo and Pence, or "does he speak only with Trump"?

Kind of panicky reactions from Turkey.

[Tureuki]

What a French paper says, what Turkey says, most importantly what LOGIC says all doesn't matter but what Kurds says have to be taken as proof it seems.

It seems like there is no drastic change on the situation so far, as i said what's gonna happen in Manbij was obvious, fate of Kobani is still not entirely clear and Russians still release balanced statements. We will see what happens.

Pence is wasting his time, Erdo is ruled by his emotions and his concerns and hopes about inner politics, consequences of this act was of course evaluated beforehand, he doesn't care, US can't change his mind, best they can do is settling an agreement.

[Papay]

Trump: "Kurds are not angels". I agree with you mr Trump. But when the previous administration and yours kill thousands of civilians with bombs, you dont have the moral authority to claim that you are better