Page 187 of 188 FirstFirst ... 87137162177178179180181182183184185186187188 LastLast
Results 3,721 to 3,740 of 3754

Thread: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

  1. #3721

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    The point of these articles is that Assad would be replaced by another, more obedient and flexible member of his circle, not by the pretty much decimated opposition. Theoretically, the central government is nowadays strong enough to survive such a change, but there's simply no reason to risk your entire presence in Syria and the stability of your alliances, because Damascus refused an advantageous contract to a Russian oligarch because she refuses to abandon the project of recapturing Idlib. This is just wishful thinking with no basis on reality.

    Regarding Obama, his verbal accusations against the Syrian government and more importantly the military intervention against Libya may have played a role at fueling the uprising, but it was certainly not the decisive factor. The Syrian Civil War is not analogous to the Shiite revolution in Iraq, which was partly sparked by Washington's misleading promises of help. Finally, the assistance provided to the rebels certainly prolonged the conflict, but I'm not sure why you view this as a negative criticism against the American foreign policy. It allowed Washington to watch several hostile entities, like Iran, Hezbollah, Syria, Russia and Salafists to fight against each other, wasting huge amounts of human and material resources, with minimal repercussions for America. If he had neither reinforced the opposition nor imposed economic sanctions, the rebellion would have probably been squashed in much fewer years and Syria would have by now recovered most of her strength. An invasion would have been diplomatically very difficult, would cost billions of money, would sink the popularity of his presidency and would encourage all the aforementioned actors to target US marines instead of each other. After all, this quite pragmatic policy is also pursued by the current administration, which confirms its significant benefits over the alternative options.

  2. #3722
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Planet Nirn
    Posts
    4,458

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Assad will go away at some point just like all rulers. Unless you have an agreement like that in Libanon then the war will continue. Unfortunatelly there are forces that dont want an agreement

  3. #3723

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    A very interesting reading about the incredible adventures of a rebel commander in southern Syria. To summarise, our protagonist, Manaf, defected from the regular army and formed a battalion of FSA fighters in his hometowns. His activities usually involved robbing the residents' homes of their furniture, beheading captives and raping underage girls. He also raided and attacked al-Nusra, the Syrian affiliate of al-Qaeda, which was probably a stupid decision, because al-Nusra didn't tolerate his aggression, so Manaf sought refuge in the Yarmuk valley. Yarmuk was controlled by the Khalid ibn al-Walid forces, the local offshoot of ISIL, so Manaf was safe there, beyond the reach of al-Nusra. He subsequently joined ISIL, but he simultaneously collaborated with foreign intelligence services, including a CIA agent. His contractors paid him generously for the information he provided, while also promising to evacuate himself and his circle, once the Walid army collapses, presumably as a result of an offensive from the "moderate" jihadists. Unfortunately, what disintegrated first was Manaf's cooperation with CIA, as his contacts eventually realised that Manaf was abusing their relationship, in order to profit as much as possible, by selling the same piece of intelligence either to several agencies or to the same one repeatedly, after having been spiced up with juicy details. Manaf then fell into obscurity, while the region has been successfully reclaimed by the Damascus government.

    In my opinion, Manaf's case is a typical example of how corruption and opportunism thrive in a chaotic environment, like that of the Syrian Civil War. The main issue with the FSA leadership was not their secret sympathies to Salafism, but its ruthlessness. Religion and opposition to the oppression committed by the authorities is usually a useful pretext to establish your own militia with yourself as the local warlord and then exploit the helpless community. Scoundrels like Manaf change sides freely and their main objective is how to gain as much as possible, by back-stabbing pretty much everyone, from the Syrian Army and CIA to ISIL and al-Qaeda. This is the principal reason of why the scenario of a prosperous and unified Syria under the victorious FSA was always pure fantasy, even if the green moderates magically managed to overcome both the black and red baddies.

  4. #3724
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...201725873.html

    New very harsh sanctions were implemented against Syria. The sanctions allow the US to target non-Syrians who conduct business with the Assad regime.

    The new sanctions along with Syria's economy is free fall will definitely tighten the noose on Assad's regime.

    How long can Assad keep the status quo?
    Last edited by Vanoi; June 17, 2020 at 02:31 PM.

  5. #3725

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...201725873.html
    New very harsh sanctions were implemented against Syria. The sanctions allow the US to target non-Syrians who conduct business with the Assad regime.
    The new sanctions along with Syria's economy is free fall will definitely tighten the noose on Assad's regime.
    How long can Assad keep the status quo?
    Perhaps if they could cut oil to Syrian government it would make a big difference.

    US-Allied Syrian Kurds Reportedly Sell Oil to Damascus Government
    The Wall Street Journal reported Friday the U.S.-allied Kurdish Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) has been selling oil from fields that it controls in the east of Syria, despite U.S. economic sanctions. The Syrian government and the Kurds have been discussing possible autonomy conditions with Damascus in light of the expected U.S. pullout from the north of the country in April, and Arab media reports that oil resources are one of the main topics of negotiation.
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #3726

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Of course, we all remember how the United Nations trade embargo against Iraq led to a popular uprising and the bloodless fall of dictator Saddam Hussein. Oh wait, that actually never happened, because the people are not mindless puppets that can be casually manipulated by obvious attempts at soft intervention. The sanctions will only harm the average Syrian, whose quality of life will decline even further, while he may not even have access to basic medicine, but his anger will not be directed towards the regime, I'm afraid. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Syrians rally behind the government even more, as they will hear favourably the official rhetoric of Syrian prosperity being constantly threatened and undermined by foreign aggression. In fact, unless Washington is extremely naive, the goal behind the sanctions is not to harm Damascus, to cripple Syria as a sovereign state and thus rendering it incapable of playing any role in external affairs, while her allies will have difficulties in investing into a destabilised economy. Good news for smugglers, I suppose, but the prospects of children suffering from cancer appear even grimmer.

  7. #3727
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Of course, we all remember how the United Nations trade embargo against Iraq led to a popular uprising and the bloodless fall of dictator Saddam Hussein. Oh wait, that actually never happened, because the people are not mindless puppets that can be casually manipulated by obvious attempts at soft intervention.
    Sure if you outright ignore the 9 years of civil war Syria has faced unlike Iraq. Hell last time i checked even Iraq under Saddam had a functioning economy. Something Syria doesn't.


    The sanctions will only harm the average Syrian,
    Appeal to emotion and an outright lie.

    whose quality of life will decline even further, while he may not even have access to basic medicine, but his anger will not be directed towards the regime, I'm afraid. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Syrians rally behind the government even more, as they will hear favourably the official rhetoric of Syrian prosperity being constantly threatened and undermined by foreign aggression.
    Thats incredibly optomistic. You mean the very same Syrians who were protesting against Assad in Sweidaa? The very same Syrians chanting "Syria is for us, not the House of Assad"?

    https://www.ft.com/content/ca37cf33-...c-2b087dd8a17f

    There were protests in Tafas too.

    In fact, unless Washington is extremely naive, the goal behind the sanctions is not to harm Damascus, to cripple Syria as a sovereign state and thus rendering it incapable of playing any role in external affairs, while her allies will have difficulties in investing into a destabilised economy. Good news for smugglers, I suppose, but the prospects of children suffering from cancer appear even grimmer.
    More appealing to emotion. Is that it? Cause i can do that all day with Assad and what he has and continues to do.

  8. #3728

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    As opposed to Iraq's 10 years of external war? Or the fact that the Syrian government debt is 70% of its GDP, while Iraq's was like 1200%? Judging the economies of Iraq and Syria depends on your criteria. Druze protesting in Sweida sounds a tad less threatening than the Shiite uprising in 1991, to be frank. We both know that these sanctions do not affect the financial strength of the elites, but the quality of life of the average Syrian, together with his life expectancy, will shrink. It's a fact, not an appeal to emotion. The goal of the sanctions is to prevent reconstruction and guarantee that Syria will not escape from her misery in the foreseeable future. Again, that's a fact and not an appeal to emotion. I'm not sure why you are objecting, as this is a reasonable and efficient strategy for the interests of those who oppose Damascus. They may also hope to reignite the civil war, but honestly, the majority of Syrians is already too exhausted with the violence, while they also justifiably view the sanctions as the consequence of foreign aggression, not of their government's corruption and authoritarianism. Forecasting about the imminent collapse of the regime seems as convincing as predicting a friction between Moscow and Damascus, just when Russia reinforced her ally's air-force and escalated the bombing against the Salafist warlords in Idlib.

  9. #3729
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    As opposed to Iraq's 10 years of external war? Or the fact that the Syrian government debt is 70% of its GDP, while Iraq's was like 1200%?
    Iraq's external wars didn't destroy the country. Syria's civil war has destroyed much of Syria. And Syria doesn't even control large parts of its population, resources, and territory.

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...unfit-to-rule/

    “Syria has sustained the biggest losses of all the conflicts in the Middle East. From 2011 through 2018, GDP fell by almost two thirds from $55 billion to $22 billion a year. This means that recovery costs (that amount to at least $250 billion) are equal to 12 times the current GDP. According to the World Bank, about 45 percent of housing has been destroyed, including a quarter of it that was razed to the ground. Over half of health facilities and about 40 percent of schools and universities are out of operation,” he said.
    You wanna keep comparing Saddam's Iraq to Syria?

    Judging the economies of Iraq and Syria depends on your criteria. Druze protesting in Sweida sounds a tad less threatening than the Shiite uprising in 1991, to be frank. We both know that these sanctions do not affect the financial strength of the elites, but the quality of life of the average Syrian, together with his life expectancy, will shrink.
    Sweidaa has barely been touched by the war. And yet even the Druze who are usually supporters of the Syrian government are protesting. Thats not a good sign. Do you think Syrians will just starve themselves for Assad?

    Oh and the sanctions will definitely affect the regime. Makes it harder for non-Syrians to send them support and this will also affect Syria's ability to keep financing their war.

    You don't need to collapse the regime. You just need to force it to take action.

    It's a fact, not an appeal to emotion. The goal of the sanctions is to prevent reconstruction and guarantee that Syria will not escape from her misery in the foreseeable future.
    Facts and appeals to emotion aren't mutually exclusive. These sanctions will force a peace. Assad won't have much of a choice now. Russia isn't going to stay in Syria forever fighting for them while their economy collapses. A military victory is completely impossible. Peace is the only answer.


    Again, that's a fact and not an appeal to emotion. I'm not sure why you are objecting, as this is a reasonable and efficient strategy for the interests of those who oppose Damascus. They may also hope to reignite the civil war, but honestly, the majority of Syrians is already too exhausted with the violence, while they also justifiably view the sanctions as the consequence of foreign aggression, not of their government's corruption and authoritarianism.
    Again, not mutually exclusive terms. And i didn't object to anything. I do disagree with what you said but i addressed that above.

    And some Syrians certainly do see the government as to blame for the sanctions. I also addressed that above.

    Forecasting about the imminent collapse of the regime seems as convincing as predicting a friction between Moscow and Damascus, just when Russia reinforced her ally's air-force and escalated the bombing against the Salafist warlords in Idlib.
    Just Russia getting rid of old inventory. I'm sure the Syrian Air Force will work right away to strap some barrel bombs on those bad boys.

    You let me know when Assad achieves his military victory. I'll just sit and watch Syria's entire economy collapse. I'm sure the Syrians are ok with it though.
    Last edited by Vanoi; June 17, 2020 at 05:56 PM.

  10. #3730

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    As opposed to Iraq's 10 years of external war? Or the fact that the Syrian government debt is 70% of its GDP, while Iraq's was like 1200%? Judging the economies of Iraq and Syria depends on your criteria. Druze protesting in Sweida sounds a tad less threatening than the Shiite uprising in 1991, to be frank. We both know that these sanctions do not affect the financial strength of the elites, but the quality of life of the average Syrian, together with his life expectancy, will shrink. It's a fact, not an appeal to emotion. The goal of the sanctions is to prevent reconstruction and guarantee that Syria will not escape from her misery in the foreseeable future. Again, that's a fact and not an appeal to emotion. I'm not sure why you are objecting, as this is a reasonable and efficient strategy for the interests of those who oppose Damascus. They may also hope to reignite the civil war, but honestly, the majority of Syrians is already too exhausted with the violence, while they also justifiably view the sanctions as the consequence of foreign aggression, not of their government's corruption and authoritarianism. Forecasting about the imminent collapse of the regime seems as convincing as predicting a friction between Moscow and Damascus, just when Russia reinforced her ally's air-force and escalated the bombing against the Salafist warlords in Idlib.
    I have to agree with you, sanctions will not help matters. Best thing US do is stay out. While neutralizing ISIS was important, neither side of the Syria Civil War is perfect, and frankly I think Assad, being a religious minority himself, will do a better job of peotecting minority rights than the oppoaition.

    Maybe at one point time the opposition promised a more moderate government, but that time is long past, and the more radical and intolerant groups will take over. Simply because Russian backed Assam is no reason to back the opposition. I have heard opposition memebers speak and pro government members speak, and I find the pro government members much more reasonable. The one I heard was willing to forgive and forget, while the opposition was intolerant and completely unforgiving. Assad saw what happened to Gaddifi, he knows if he steps down he will be murdered. The opposition has committed its share of atrocities too, even if they don't get the same press.


    Rather than Obama's unrealistic demand Assad step down as any precondition for negotiation, US could perhaps help a realistic peace deal. Perhaps if rhe US sided with Russia, the opposition will realize the futility of continued fighting.. They have leverage wirh US aid to ring real concessions out of Assad, who after years of fighting I am.sure will be willing to make some concessions. Is the goal simply to remove Assad no matter whar or.make things betrer? You don't have to necessarily remove Assad to make improvements.

    Assad might voluntsrily step down and had over the government to a reliable subordinateq as part of a wider settlement agreement, but he is not going to step down under pressure. Russian is unlikely to abandoned him, they would lose face internationally if they abandoned an ally in the face of pressure.

  11. #3731

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Iraq's external wars didn't destroy the country. Syria's civil war has destroyed much of Syria. And Syria doesn't even control large parts of its population, resources, and territory.

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...unfit-to-rule/
    The Syrian government controls more of Syria than the opposition, who are not even united. If Assad were to step down there would be a power struggle among the opposiion who would rule, and the would not be the winners.


    You wanna keep comparing Saddam's Iraq to Syria?
    Why not? When Bush removed Saddam he was citicised by the Left, and Saddam was far worse than Assad, yet the the Left is insisting on Assad.

    Sweidaa has barely been touched by the war. And yet even the Druze who are usually supporters of the Syrian government are protesting. Thats not a good sign. Do you think Syrians will just starve themselves for Assad?
    Yes, beats the alternative of being rule by fanatical Muslim fundamentalist who will try to finish ISIS job of exterminating religious minorities. But the Left has repeatedly demonstrated they don't really care about religious minorities.

    You live in fantasy land if you think if you hand over Syria to the opposition that moderates will be in charge. One of the reasons that the opposition hates Assad so muxh is that he isn't a bigot like them, ans he doesn't oppress religious minorities the way they want, since Assad is a religious minority himself.


    Oh and the sanctions will definitely affect the regime. Makes it harder for non-Syrians to send them support and this will also affect Syria's ability to keep financing their war.
    No, it will just make the same it harder on the common folk.

    Sanctions didn't work against Iran, Iraq or North Korea. Please explain to me why they would miraculously disappear work against Assad. Wishful thinkng?.

    You don't need to collapse the regime. You just need to force it to take action.
    What action? The US, under Obama's stupid policy, made it a precondition Assad had to go for there to be any peace treaty. The governments back to the wall, since they know what happened to Gaddaffi, they will fight to the end, because they will be killed if they don't.

    Facts and appeals to emotion aren't mutually exclusive. These sanctions will force a peace. Assad won't have much of a choice now. Russia isn't going to stay in Syria forever fighting for them while their economy collapses. A military victory is completely impossible. Peace is the only answer.
    Sanctions never worked before, so why insist they will work now? I think Assas would be willing to dscuss peace, i is the opposition who isn't, other than unrealistic demands that Assad step down sonhe could be murdered like Gaddafi. That is not going to happen.

    And Russian is not gong to abandoned an ally, as I said they would lose too much face. Who is supporting the opposition?




    And some Syrians certainly do see the government as to blame for the sanctions. I also addressed that above.
    And some Syrians will resent the preasure outsiders are exerting and taking sides in an internal civil war. Or do you propose sanctions on the opposition as well? It takes 2 to fight


    You let me know when Assad achieves his military victory. I'll just sit and watch Syria's entire economy collapse.
    And you let me know when the opposition achieves their military victory. Despite years of fighting, Assad still controls more of the country.

    And.we all know how US sanctions brought down Castro. Oh wait, that did not happen. And if the US wants to impose sanctions, that does not mean others will honor it, does it?

  12. #3732
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    The Syrian government controls more of Syria than the opposition, who are not even united. If Assad were to step down there would be a power struggle among the opposiion who would rule, and the would not be the winners.
    And? Are you assuming that i support the rebels in Idlib? Cause i don't.




    Why not? When Bush removed Saddam he was citicised by the Left, and Saddam was far worse than Assad, yet the the Left is insisting on Assad.
    Thats cool but also completely irrelevant to why i was comparing Iraq to Syria.

    Yes, beats the alternative of being rule by fanatical Muslim fundamentalist who will try to finish ISIS job of exterminating religious minorities. But the Left has repeatedly demonstrated they don't really care about religious minorities.
    Syria can go on without Assad or the rebels. You assume they are the only two choices.

    You live in fantasy land if you think if you hand over Syria to the opposition that moderates will be in charge. One of the reasons that the opposition hates Assad so muxh is that he isn't a bigot like them, ans he doesn't oppress religious minorities the way they want, since Assad is a religious minority himself.
    No where in my entire post did i say anything about handing Syria over to the opposition. Can you actually address my points and not create ones for yourself to argue against?


    No, it will just make the same it harder on the common folk.
    And the government.

    Sanctions didn't work against Iran, Iraq or North Korea. Please explain to me why they would miraculously disappear work against Assad. Wishful thinkng?.
    None of them were in 9 year long civil wars nor are any of their economies on the verge of collapse, nor do any of them have a significant chunk of their territory occupied by foreign powers.


    What action? The US, under Obama's stupid policy, made it a precondition Assad had to go for there to be any peace treaty. The governments back to the wall, since they know what happened to Gaddaffi, they will fight to the end, because they will be killed if they don't.
    Peace or war. And that pre-condition was dropped years ago. Current peace process is stalled because the Syrians refuse to compromise.

    Assd's economy is collapsing. Either he wins the war or peaces out. The current status quo can't last forever.



    Sanctions never worked before, so why insist they will work now? I think Assas would be willing to dscuss peace, i is the opposition who isn't, other than unrealistic demands that Assad step down sonhe could be murdered like Gaddafi. That is not going to happen.
    Thats just . Current peace process is stalled because of the Syrian government.

    And Russian is not gong to abandoned an ally, as I said they would lose too much face. Who is supporting the opposition?
    Turkey supports the opposition. Russia can't afford to stay in Syria forever. Do you think Russia wants to stay in Syria as long as the Americans stayed in Iraq






    And some Syrians will resent the preasure outsiders are exerting and taking sides in an internal civil war. Or do you propose sanctions on the opposition as well? It takes 2 to fight
    I'm sure they will.


    And you let me know when the opposition achieves their military victory. Despite years of fighting, Assad still controls more of the country.
    Nice rebuttal. When Assad going to win again?


    And.we all know how US sanctions brought down Castro. Oh wait, that did not happen. And if the US wants to impose sanctions, that does not mean others will honor it, does it?
    They don't have to. Did you bother to read the sanctions? The US will sanction you if you try to do business with the Syrians. If they don't honor it, they get sanctioned too.

  13. #3733
    Odenat's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of world's desire
    Posts
    1,496

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Only the people who doesn't know Syria or never been at Syria can think that those new sanctions will harm Assad. Syria is an agricultural economy. Much of what Syrians produce goes by land to Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan or Turkey and Syria imports what it needs the same way. And 75% of this trade is out of the books (which means there are no records). You can't sanction such a country, you need to sanction everybody around it too. And sometimes the deals are not even made for money. A Syrian trader says; "i'll send you one truck of wheat, send me 10 galons of oil" and his Lebanese partner does that. What your Western mind is failing to grasp is that this is Middle East. People are not playing by Western rules, most of the deals are made at back rooms, everyone is ready to be betrayed etc.

    Remember that Iran which all of Western world is embargoing for the last 40 years is pretty much fine. They even sent their first satellite to space 2 months ago!

    Right now, what is hurting Syria is the economic crisis at Lebanon. That is why Syrian pound lost much of its value. Many places at Northern Syria started using Turkish lira instead. Even the salaries started to be payed at Turkish lira.

  14. #3734
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    What your mind is failing to grasp is that it doesn't matter if other countries try and trade with Syria. Under the new sanctions, the US will sanction anyone who does business with Syria. That means any foreign entity or company.

    If Jordan, Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon ect. attempt to do business with the Syrian government they get sanctioned along with Syria. Good luck.

  15. #3735
    Odenat's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of world's desire
    Posts
    1,496

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    What your mind is failing to grasp is that it doesn't matter if other countries try and trade with Syria. Under the new sanctions, the US will sanction anyone who does business with Syria. That means any foreign entity or company.

    If Jordan, Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon ect. attempt to do business with the Syrian government they get sanctioned along with Syria. Good luck.
    Maybe my english is too bad or maybe it is your english.... If you read what i wrote, you'll see that 75% of trade at the region pass from illegal ways. I know because i was there, i wonder how many times you have been at Syria? At Turkish border at Urfa, you can find everything from Ak-47's to land-to air missiles to Mercedes&Ferraris! And there isn't any official documentation, the money is not transfered by the banks, there is nothing to find even if you check! Iran is buying&selling everything they want by using gold, how do you think they have everything, from cars to satellites right now? Do you really think that Turkey, Iraq, Armenia, Azerbaidjan, Pakistan, India, China etc. is not trading with Iran although there are sanctions? The situation will be the same with Syria, good luck sanctioning the people you can catch.

    If i remember right, USA is already sanctioning China, Russia, Iran, Korea, Libya and some African&South American countries. It also threatens to sanction Turkey, India and some more African&South American countries. Soon, you'll run out of the countries to sanction.

    If you need to change a government at Middle East, you find a friendly leader, you assassinate the current president and replace him with your friendly leader. Or you addict people to your money and products and control them (just like what USA did at 1950s with Marshall plan). You don't sanction people because it is useless and you definetly don't invade. Americans were much more intelligent at 1950s&1960s. It is not a wonder they are crumbling with the leadership they got at the last 20 years.

  16. #3736
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    Maybe my english is too bad or maybe it is your english.... If you read what i wrote, you'll see that 75% of trade at the region pass from illegal ways.
    You mean that claim you made with no citation? I don't think you've actually read the sanctions either as the sanctions target much much more than just trade.

    I know because i was there, i wonder how many times you have been at Syria?
    Your personal experience isn't evidence for your claim 75% of Syrian trade is illegal.

    At Turkish border at Urfa, you can find everything from Ak-47's to land-to air missiles to Mercedes&Ferraris! And there isn't any official documentation, the money is not transfered by the banks, there is nothing to find even if you check! Iran is buying&selling everything they want by using gold, how do you think they have everything, from cars to satellites right now? Do you really think that Turkey, Iraq, Armenia, Azerbaidjan, Pakistan, India, China etc. is not trading with Iran although there are sanctions? The situation will be the same with Syria, good luck sanctioning the people you can catch.
    You really didn't read the sanctions did you? All of those countries traded with Syria because there were threat on sanctions on them. New sanctions allow the US to target those countries doing business with Syria when previously they could not.

    If i remember right, USA is already sanctioning China, Russia, Iran, Korea, Libya and some African&South American countries. It also threatens to sanction Turkey, India and some more African&South American countries. Soon, you'll run out of the countries to sanction.
    Iran's economy is complete because of sanctions along with Venezuela's. North Korea will forever have a economy because of sanctions. Not aware of any Libyan sanctions except the arms embargo. Sanctions against Russia and China are small in comparison to Syria.

    If sanctions didn't work then why does Iran want the US to ease sanctions on their country in exchange for negociation regarding the Nuclear Deal?

    If you need to change a government at Middle East, you find a friendly leader, you assassinate the current president and replace him with your friendly leader. Or you addict people to your money and products and control them (just like what USA did at 1950s with Marshall plan). You don't sanction people because it is useless and you definetly don't invade. Americans were much more intelligent at 1950s&1960s. It is not a wonder they are crumbling with the leadership they got at the last 20 years.
    You do know your own country sanctions Syria and has invaded the country? Guess you Turks aren't any smarter than us Americans.

  17. #3737
    Odenat's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of world's desire
    Posts
    1,496

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post

    You do know your own country sanctions Syria and has invaded the country? Guess you Turks aren't any smarter than us Americans.
    And do you think Turkish stopped trading with Syrians? Remember, this is middle east.

    https://www.duvarenglish.com/economy...trade-secrecy/

    And Iran&Russia still trades with Syria

    https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/447...-by-March-2021

    By the way, Vanoi, it seems that American government forgot that their own Kurdish allies are inside Syria! Now, USA is sanctioning its own allies.

    https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...s-removal.html

  18. #3738
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    And do you think Turkish stopped trading with Syrians? Remember, this is middle east.

    https://www.duvarenglish.com/economy...trade-secrecy/
    Olive imports? Thats it? Now tell me this. Are they importing olives from the Syrian government or from the rebel held areas in Syria itself?

    And Iran&Russia still trades with Syria
    Must not be much considering the state of the Syrian economy. Then of course Iran and Russia must spend money to help Assad's government so that offsets any profit they get from trading with Syria.

    By the way, Vanoi, it seems that American government forgot that their own Kurdish allies are inside Syria! Now, USA is sanctioning its own allies.

    https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...s-removal.html
    So sanctions do work now? Earlier you said this wouldn't have much of an effect.

    Nonetheless, the economic situation in the northeast remains better than under government controlled areas. The autonomous administration pays its employees significantly more than the Syrian government pays its own employees in the northeast, and the administration is currently considering doubling salaries to keep up with inflation.

    Despite the rapidly rising prices, many daily commodities are still more affordable in the northeast than in regime-controlled areas. A cylinder of cooking gas in cities of Syria’s regime-controlled west coast sometimes can cost as much as 30,000 pounds, whereas in the northeast, one can cost about 3,000 pounds, Mohammed said.
    So much for doom and gloom. Kurds just need to trade with someone else other than the Syrian goverment and the sanctions won't effect them. Hell according to the article the Kurdish administration is exempt from the sanctions.

  19. #3739

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    I hope this foreseeable decline of US stability finally puts an end to this sanction nonsense, for decades the whole world is forced to abide by this massive scale bullying, millions of people suffer for the sake of one country's crave for dominance.

  20. #3740
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tureuki View Post
    I hope this foreseeable decline of US stability finally puts an end to this sanction nonsense, for decades the whole world is forced to abide by this massive scale bullying, millions of people suffer for the sake of one country's crave for dominance.
    Highly doubt it. Worse civil discontent didn't stop the US before previously. Sanctions continue.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •