Thread: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

  1. #3301

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    There are no Syrian Forces or something like near Manbij - only some Pro-Regime Militias which are allied with them but since they are not the Official Forces of Syrian Arab Army - so stop posting some links of wannabe Geo-Politics Experts of twitter, we already know how that Shows works.

    It is ok if you are for one Side but please stop this ridiculous posting of some really unreliable sources and stay objective.

  2. #3302
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz4CRPCzBJM
    Well YPG holds tens of thousands of women and children in camps under appaling conditions. Why does this thing remind me of Pol Pot?

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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Because as bad as the relationship between Turkey and Syria gets, Syria knows that Turkey will return whatever land that falls under Turkey's control. YPG on the other hand was trying to get as much leverage as possible to carve a state for themselves. Turkey's presence in Syria stopped being an existential crisis for Syria long ago. US backed PKK with large swathes of land is a bigger threat for Syria compared to whatever extremist element remains in Turkey backed rebels.
    Sure, Turkey might return the territory to Syria, but Syria under who's leadership? Not Assad, considering Turkey is currently the only thing keeping the anti-Assad forces alive. If Turkey were to withdraw from Syria completely tomorrow, the civil war will end within no more than a year.
    YPG is trying to get autonomy, something Turkey is unwilling to accept.
    Whatever extremist element remains? Take out the extremist element and you have about 7 FSA fighters left. The moderate opposition is long gone, especially in Idlib, the only area of any real significance controlled by the FSA, which is almost completely controlled by HTS, kept alive only because Turkey protects it.

  4. #3304

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    American sanctions are going to wreck the Turkish Lira; I would predict a drop similar to the time sanctions were imposed about the pastor. This war will get very unpopular in Turkey very quickly, especially if Assad assists the Kurds.

  5. #3305

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Obviously does have Russian approval as Russians themselves moved into Manbij. Do remember the SAA can shoot down Turkish aircraft.


    What to gain? The US is completely withdrawing from YPG territory. Russia and Syria could easily move into YPG territory from Manbij to Dier Ezzor gaining tons of territory, oil resources, and it secures more land for the pro-government forves while leaving Turkey with a lesser hand in negociations on Syria's future.

    The worst case scenario for Russia is that Turkey doesn't pivot toward them which is already the current status quo. Turkey already bought S-400s and Russia already has gained from the rift created from Turkey and NATO. Turkey has no one to turn to at all. NATO will not help them.
    Do you remember what happened in Afrin? Russians moved into Tell Rifaat area and moved no further, leaving SAA militants alone in the Afrin territory to get butchered. Russians moving into Manbij is not the sign of an approval and support of every move againts Turkey. I expect the same thing, Securing Manbij? Yes. Sneaking into Kobani before Turkey encircles it? Not very likely, still, possible. But they will provide no support to a direct confrontation or a general counter attack againts Turkey.

    Russia does not needs every inch of Syrian territory, SAA cannot even man the whole country anyway. What Russia needs is just a seemingly SAA dominance among the Syrian parties, and for that, instead of waging a mass scale war againts any parties, they prefer to watch other parties weaken each other and balance the score in SAA's favor, meanwhile they also take the small opportunities, Tell Rifaat was one example, Manbij is the second. If Russia really cared that much about territory, cared enough to completely piss off Turkey, why would they even leave the TFSA area intact to this day? You think Turkish presence could scare away determined Russians?

    Anyone believing that Turkey would hit a target without detecting any military elements in such a delicate political situation is blinded by their partisanship. YPG is just desperately trying to invoke reaction in the west, and they don't mind intentionally sacrificing people for that.
    Last edited by Tureuki; October 14, 2019 at 12:31 AM.

  6. #3306
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Erdogan and his AKP is already the big winner. Turkish CHP and kurdish HDP will rally around their different flags because of this war, btw. the current leaders of HDP are already under investigation because of "treason".

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  7. #3307
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II



    Last edited by Ukiah; October 14, 2019 at 01:20 AM.

  8. #3308
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    Default ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Because as bad as the relationship between Turkey and Syria gets, Syria knows that Turkey will return whatever land that falls under Turkey's control. YPG on the other hand was trying to get as much leverage as possible to carve a state for themselves. Turkey's presence in Syria stopped being an existential crisis for Syria long ago. US backed PKK with large swathes of land is a bigger threat for Syria compared to whatever extremist element remains in Turkey backed rebels.
    Let me get this straight.
    Turkey waged a sectarian war on the minority that is barely clinging to power in Syria (albeit through a repressive dictatorship).
    For 10 years almost every inch of syria was destroyed as a result of turkish backed war.
    Turkey actively trained the fighters and shares a sunni-expansionist ideology.

    The assad regime is still based on a secular and non-muslim or nusayri minority, facing an existential challenge by a rebelious sunni majority who largely align with wahabism.

    But the kurds that are not hostile to assad or minorities that make up the population in non-core fringes of syria are a bigger threat?

    The assad regime and the population bases it is built on literally faces EXTINCTION in the heartlands of syria, i am sure they care less about the kurdish areas.

    It was assad that armed the kurds against jihadists and left those areas in the first place. Clearly, the bigger threat is turkeys islamism and their proxies on the ground.
    Secular kurds are far more preferable to a well trained, financed, organized and radical sunni groups that put their backs to turkey.

    Assads problems will not be over when this was is over.
    Thee sunni population is still a majority and assad will deal with a destroyed country, rebuilding for at least a decade.

    For the kurds, this is the second best scenario. Assad is getting the best deal.
    He has literally purged millions of islamists from his country (yes, ETHNIC CLEANSING) and increased the relative power of his population base. There is now more space for assads population base, especially the minorities. And for the next few years, no one will dare say a word to assad.
    Syria will become less of a sunni majority country.

    And the secularist anti kurd people of turkey still talks of a deal with assad.
    They still deny that their coubtry literally became a symbol of sunni islamist expansionism.
    The fight against kurds isnt just a fight against pkk, it is a fight against SECULARISM.

    I dont think assad would care if kurds were ethnically cleansed by turkeys criminal settlement plan of arabs to the region. HOWEVER, these arabs will be sunni islamists loyal to turkey. They would also be used to increase the leverage of the fsa at the end of the war on the table.
    Furthermore, in the new future, they d control the borders and wait for a new civil war or taking of power.

    Turkey will de jure move out maybe but not de facto. Its islamist influence will always be there. I am sure assad prefers kurds over being besieged until the next rebellion.
    Last edited by dogukan; October 14, 2019 at 02:45 AM.
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  9. #3309
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    American sanctions are going to wreck the Turkish Lira; I would predict a drop similar to the time sanctions were imposed about the pastor. This war will get very unpopular in Turkey very quickly, especially if Assad assists the Kurds.
    I don't think bombing Kurds will ever be unpopular in Turkey.

  10. #3310

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    fAilEd tO sHoW tHe wEaPoNs. The video is right there on twitter, a bunch of assault rifles and machine guns lying on the ground near the bodies. I can't share it because it's graphic.

    @dogukan

    Russia can keep Turkey and therefore FSA on check. They can't do that to US protected YPG. YPG grabbed Deir ez Zor oil fields in front of SAA, they couldn't do anything, even the Russian mercenaries were bombed to hell out, can you imagine Turkey or FSA doing something like that? Turkey can't directly cross Russia, and FSA is nothing without Turkey, they had their shot, failed miserably, now they only serve Turkey's interests(which is entirely focused on YPG) in exchange of retaining their safe havens and some money, YPG on the other hand is far more organized and determined, and is protected by a super power that can cross Russian and SAA interests in a much larger scale. Both parties having secular tendencies mean nothing when they are tools of polar opposite powers. Not to mention that their ideologies and their plans and hopes for the future of country are nowhere even close.
    Last edited by Tureuki; October 14, 2019 at 06:32 AM.

  11. #3311

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Sure, Turkey might return the territory to Syria, but Syria under who's leadership? Not Assad, considering Turkey is currently the only thing keeping the anti-Assad forces alive. If Turkey were to withdraw from Syria completely tomorrow, the civil war will end within no more than a year.
    YPG is trying to get autonomy, something Turkey is unwilling to accept.
    Whatever extremist element remains? Take out the extremist element and you have about 7 FSA fighters left. The moderate opposition is long gone, especially in Idlib, the only area of any real significance controlled by the FSA, which is almost completely controlled by HTS, kept alive only because Turkey protects it.
    Under Assad. That question is already settled thanks to Russian help to Syrian government. Turkey needs to and will one way or another reconcile with Assad. While Idlib ventured into chaos Afrin and newly transformed SNA (FSA) have come along a lot. Hence, your characterization of them as all extremists is rather inaccurate.


    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    Let me get this straight.
    Turkey waged a sectarian war on the minority that is barely clinging to power in Syria (albeit through a repressive dictatorship).
    For 10 years almost every inch of syria was destroyed as a result of turkish backed war.
    Turkey actively trained the fighters and shares a sunni-expansionist ideology.
    The assad regime is still based on a secular and non-muslim or nusayri minority, facing an existential challenge by a rebelious sunni majority who largely align with wahabism.
    But the kurds that are not hostile to assad or minorities that make up the population in non-core fringes of syria are a bigger threat?
    The assad regime and the population bases it is built on literally faces EXTINCTION in the heartlands of syria, i am sure they care less about the kurdish areas.
    It was assad that armed the kurds against jihadists and left those areas in the first place. Clearly, the bigger threat is turkeys islamism and their proxies on the ground.
    Secular kurds are far more preferable to a well trained, financed, organized and radical sunni groups that put their backs to turkey.
    Assads problems will not be over when this was is over.
    Thee sunni population is still a majority and assad will deal with a destroyed country, rebuilding for at least a decade.
    For the kurds, this is the second best scenario. Assad is getting the best deal.
    He has literally purged millions of islamists from his country (yes, ETHNIC CLEANSING) and increased the relative power of his population base. There is now more space for assads population base, especially the minorities. And for the next few years, no one will dare say a word to assad.
    Syria will become less of a sunni majority country.
    And the secularist anti kurd people of turkey still talks of a deal with assad.
    They still deny that their coubtry literally became a symbol of sunni islamist expansionism.
    The fight against kurds isnt just a fight against pkk, it is a fight against SECULARISM.
    I dont think assad would care if kurds were ethnically cleansed by turkeys criminal settlement plan of arabs to the region. HOWEVER, these arabs will be sunni islamists loyal to turkey. They would also be used to increase the leverage of the fsa at the end of the war on the table.
    Furthermore, in the new future, they d control the borders and wait for a new civil war or taking of power.
    Turkey will de jure move out maybe but not de facto. Its islamist influence will always be there. I am sure assad prefers kurds over being besieged until the next rebellion.
    What a lovely charade... I really have no interest in entertaining your veneration of PKK. Assad tried using PKK against Turkey before, failed, and took a vacation with Erdoğan later on. That happened. So, there is no reason why Turkey and Syria can't reconcile to a degree. Assad would prefer "jihadist" groups to US-backed PKK any day.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; October 14, 2019 at 07:08 AM.
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  12. #3312
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    What a lovely charade... I really have no interest in entertaining your veneration of PKK.
    Where have I venerated PKK?
    Assad would prefer "jihadist" groups to US-backed PKK any day.
    Is that why his forces are entering YPG territory as we speak to stop your jihadists from taking over them?
    It's a very easy choice from Assad's perspective: one side wants autonomy under his rule, the other side wants him dead.

  13. #3313

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Where have I venerated PKK?
    Is that why his forces are entering YPG territory as we speak to stop your jihadists from taking over them?
    It's a very easy choice from Assad's perspective: one side wants autonomy under his rule, the other side wants him dead.
    I hit reply too soon. That part was not for you. Turkey wanting Assad dead is long gone. You need to realize the new dynamics.
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  14. #3314

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    The international media didn't just ignored crimes of PKK in the region. They actively acted as a tool for propaganda. It's simply disheartening to see how blatant the propaganda war have been.

    One example, from ABC News, check the first footage that is shown with the title "Slaughter in Syria" and the reporter saying "this video right here appearing to show Turkey's military bombing Kurd civilians in a Syrian border town":


    Here is where it was taken from, Knob Creek machine gun shooting, 2017, USA:


    Is there no shame?

    EDIT: ABC News made the video on YouTube private and took out the link on their website. Some copied the video in time.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; October 14, 2019 at 11:44 AM.
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  15. #3315
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tureuki View Post

    @dogukan

    Russia can keep Turkey and therefore FSA on check. They can't do that to US protected YPG. YPG grabbed Deir ez Zor oil fields in front of SAA, they couldn't do anything, even the Russian mercenaries were bombed to hell out, can you imagine Turkey or FSA doing something like that? Turkey can't directly cross Russia, and FSA is nothing without Turkey, they had their shot, failed miserably, now they only serve Turkey's interests(which is entirely focused on YPG) in exchange of retaining their safe havens and some money, YPG on the other hand is far more organized and determined, and is protected by a super power that can cross Russian and SAA interests in a much larger scale. Both parties having secular tendencies mean nothing when they are tools of polar opposite powers. Not to mention that their ideologies and their plans and hopes for the future of country are nowhere even close.
    I do not think that would be a logical situation from Assad's perspective but we will find out soon.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  16. #3316

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    fAilEd tO sHoW tHe wEaPoNs. The video is right there on twitter, a bunch of assault rifles and machine guns lying on the ground near the bodies. I can't share it because it's graphic.
    The French (I think) journalist and the female co-president of the Kurdish Future Party had a bunch of assault rifles? Really? Imagine that.

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  17. #3317
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    The international media didn't just ignored crimes of PKK in the region. They actively acted as a tool for propaganda. It's simply disheartening to see how blatant the propaganda war have been.

    One example, from ABC News, check the first footage that is shown with the title "Slaughter in Syria" and the reporter saying "this video right here appearing to show Turkey's military bombing Kurd civilians in a Syrian border town":


    Here is where it was taken from, Knob Creek machine gun shooting, 2017, USA:


    Is there no shame?

    EDIT: ABC News made the video on YouTube private and took out the link on their website. Some copied the video in time.
    Of course there is no shame. This is just another example of fake news being caught. If there was shame, they wouldn't keep doing it.

  18. #3318
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2019/...ays-tsoturkish

    https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2019/...-intentionally

    US officals say Turkey intentionally shelled prisons. They also say Turkey is intentionally releasing ISIS prisoners and blaming it on the Kurds.

    Meanwhile EU-Turkish relations are basically destroyed at this point. Its obvious at this point this invasion has cost Turkey its relationship to the EU and NATO.

    SAA are actively moving into Northern Syria including the border itself. Turkey has been out-played here by its own ambitions.

    https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2019/...operation-with

  19. #3319

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    Numerous EU countries have stopped export of weapons to Turkey. They should really do the same to Saudi Arabia and UAE.

  20. #3320

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria II

    ABC News ‘slaughter in Syria’ footage appears to come from a Kentucky gun range
    Are you distrustful of the coverage of what is happening now in northern Syria between the Kurds and the Turkish army? You have good reason to be.

    ABC aired supposedly shocking footage Monday and Sunday purporting to be from the frontline battle between the Syrian Kurds and the invading Turks. The only problem is: The footage appears to come from a nighttime machine gun demonstration at the Knob Creek Gun Range in West Point, Kentucky.

    After seeing a comment from Wojciech Pawelczyk, I began making some calls. As of this writing, it appears ABC indeed aired footage recorded in the Kentucky and claimed it was from Syria. The network has since pulled the video.

    "We’ve taken down video that aired on World News Tonight Sunday and Good Morning America this morning that appeared to be from the Syrian border immediately after questions were raised about its accuracy," a network representative told the Washington Examiner. "ABC News regrets the error.”
    Its next to impossible for a video like this to be used by mistake.
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