Hebrew speaking factions

**Nilash** · December 25, 2016, 10:17 AM

Hi there,
First, I gotta say I'm full of admiration for what you've done here, mod crew, It is incredible! Well done!
With that, just a heads-up for the Hebrew speaking factions: I do understand that it is a bit difficult to find someone who understand ancient Semitic languages and "settling" for Hebrew for all eastern factions is a wise choice. As an (native) Hebrew speaker myself I'm having a blast playing as the Carthaginians!

Your voice-over actor sounds like he studied the language from a book but never used it in real life or in front of someone who understand the language completely.
For example, the Hebrew word (plural) for "ladders" is Sulamot (faminine form), not Sulamim (masculine form); "Not possible" is either Eih efshar or Bilty efshari, Eih efshari is broken Hebrew; the word for horsemen is Parashim, not Parasim and spearmen are Dokrim (lit. Stabbers, which is not really the acceptable term for spearmen), not Dorekim. There are a few more.
If you want, I'll gladly volunteer to go over your script, if you're planning on doing another voice recording somewhere in the future, and correct what it is needed.

This is a minor and funny heads-up and it does not ruin or damage my experience of the gameplay, if you wondered

Again, great job, thank you and marry Christmas!

**Cohors_Evocata** · December 25, 2016, 02:14 PM

Thanks for the compliment. The factions in question are not supposed to be using modern Hebrew however, but ancient Punic (at least in regards to their voicemod), which was somewhat related to ancient Hebrew. I assume there are differences which distinguish the two, but I'm not familiar with either, so I can't say more. We've recently done some revisions and corrections on the various Semetic languages in the mod, but modern-day Hebrew shouldn't be taken as a guide in that regard.

EDIT: Forgot to mention it, hope those reading this post have a good time and good fortune in the days and years to come.

**Nilash** · December 26, 2016, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Cohors_Evocata

Thanks for the compliment. The factions in question are not supposed to be using modern Hebrew however, but ancient Punic (at least in regards to their voicemod), which was somewhat related to ancient Hebrew. I assume there are differences which distinguish the two, but I'm not familiar with either, so I can't say more. We've recently done some revisions and corrections on the various Semetic languages in the mod, but modern-day Hebrew shouldn't be taken as a guide in that regard.

EDIT: Forgot to mention it, hope those reading this post have a good time and good fortune in the days and years to come.

Hi,
Semitic languages are related but are not the same. For example, Arabic and Hebrew are pretty much sister languages but someone who speaks Arabic and myself would not be able to understand each other.
If you find someone who speaks Phoenician then by all means, but you ARE using Hebrew

if so, why not use it correctly?

**Moros** · December 30, 2016, 08:50 PM

It is not Hebrew it is actually Phoenician, which is much more closely related to Hebrew than Arabic (between whom one could easily find some sharing of roots). Biblical Hebrew and Phoenician share a common ancestor in the Canaanite language which was spoken until the end of the 2nd millenium. Phoenician and biblical hebrew thus were only seperated from each other by a couple hundred years. So obviously much of the rootwords are the same, most of the grammar is similar, but as usual pronunciation had changed most between the two. Aramaic, Hebrew and Phoenician speakers at the time could probably understand each other with some effort.

**Nilash** · January 14, 2017, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by Moros

It is not Hebrew it is actually Phoenician, which is much more closely related to Hebrew than Arabic (between whom one could easily find some sharing of roots). Biblical Hebrew and Phoenician share a common ancestor in the Canaanite language which was spoken until the end of the 2nd millenium. Phoenician and biblical hebrew thus were only seperated from each other by a couple hundred years. So obviously much of the rootwords are the same, most of the grammar is similar, but as usual pronunciation had changed most between the two. Aramaic, Hebrew and Phoenician speakers at the time could probably understand each other with some effort.

Not really, no.
During the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem, Hezekiah's ministers asked Rabshakeh to stop talking "Judean" and use Aramaic instead, so the populous won't understand the negotiations (King II 18), meaning those who spoke Aramaic didn't necessarily spoke or understood Hebrew and vice versa. I study master's degree in ancient history and I understand both Modern and 3rd century BC Hebrew and some Aramaic. The language you use in the mod is Modern Hebrew and some of it is broken...

**rovert** · January 14, 2017, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Nilash

Not really, no.
During the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem, Hezekiah's ministers asked Rabshakeh to stop talking "Judean" and use Aramaic instead, so the populous won't understand the negotiations (King II 18), meaning those who spoke Aramaic didn't necessarily spoke or understood Hebrew and vice versa. I study master's degree in ancient history and I understand both Modern and 3rd century BC Hebrew and some Aramaic. The language you use in the mod is Modern Hebrew and some of it is broken...

**The excited one** · January 14, 2017, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Nilash

Not really, no.
During the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem, Hezekiah's ministers asked Rabshakeh to stop talking "Judean" and use Aramaic instead, so the populous won't understand the negotiations (King II 18), meaning those who spoke Aramaic didn't necessarily spoke or understood Hebrew and vice versa. I study master's degree in ancient history and I understand both Modern and 3rd century BC Hebrew and some Aramaic. The language you use in the mod is Modern Hebrew and some of it is broken...

>if you don't agree with my point of view you are probably a anti-Semitic

please report the EB2 devs as being anti-Semitic to the JIDF we need fight the good fight against any form of anti-semitic sentiment we gotta stop its spreading since the rigged election of Donald "literally hitler" Trump... (proudly sponsored by russia)

**Nilash** · January 15, 2017, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by The excited one

>if you don't agree with my point of view you are probably a anti-Semitic

please report the EB2 devs as being anti-Semitic to the JIDF we need fight the good fight against any form of anti-semitic sentiment we gotta stop its spreading since the rigged election of Donald "literally hitler" Trump... (proudly sponsored by russia)

How did you get from me offering my help and praising this mod to me calling anyone anti-semitic?
I wasn't referring to my point of views, but making an historical argument, as expected from a community like this.
BTW, as far as I know my country's politics, those who tend to blame everyone for being anti-semitic are very much pro Trump

(altough this is getting off-topic)

Edit: my bad, Rabshakeh was Assyrian, not Babylonian.

**Genghis Skahn** · January 15, 2017, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by The excited one

>if you don't agree with my point of view you are probably a anti-Semitic

please report the EB2 devs as being anti-Semitic to the JIDF we need fight the good fight against any form of anti-semitic sentiment we gotta stop its spreading since the rigged election of Donald "literally hitler" Trump... (proudly sponsored by russia)

An Aussie :wub:ing? Never heard of that before

You must be literally [redacted] or something

TW, as far as I know my country's politics, those who tend to blame everyone for being anti-semitic are very much pro Trump

(altough this is getting off-topic)

And at this point, we know Trump supports Israel too.

Back on topic, we actually have a semetic expert in languages on the team now who could probably clarify whether it's Punic or Hebrew. AFAIK it is supposed to be Punic, however. Recently, a ton of Carthaginian names were edited/added to be largely Punic in nature.

**The excited one** · January 15, 2017, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn

An Aussie :wub:ing? Never heard of that before

You must be literally [redacted] or something

And at this point, we know Trump supports Israel too.

Calling me out for :wub:ing is against the rules of the TWC you should understand that calling people out is not healthy for the forum and this thread in general do you understand?

At this point we all know from the media that under Donald "literally hitler" Trump, the jewish populace are being prosecuted by the alt-right who uses the pepe to push his racist/xenophobic agenda against people of all races and identities (which includes the chosen ones)

Do you want to have blood in your hands for causing another shoah for letting Donald "literally hitler" Trump roam free and letting this anti-Semitic speech being spread through the internet? Small words are just the beginning of a bigger shoah...

Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn

Back on topic, we actually have a semetic expert in languages on the team now who could probably clarify whether it's Punic or Hebrew. AFAIK it is supposed to be Punic, however. Recently, a ton of Carthaginian names were edited/added to be largely Punic in nature.

See, see? the EB team has a Semitic "expert" who refuses to acknowledge the fact that Punic is supposed to be hebrew as hebrew was the original language of the middle-east.. This level of historical revisionism is getting out of hand and this is just a beginning of the persecution of the chosen peoples... plz report the devs to the JIDF asap OP this

**Genghis Skahn** · January 15, 2017, 08:27 AM

Calling me out for :wub:ing is against the rules of the TWC you should understand that calling people out is not healthy for the forum and this thread in general do you understand?

B-but the clown! The clown!! I used a clown emote!!!! It was a joke!!!!!!

**rovert** · January 15, 2017, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by The excited one

Calling me out for :wub:ing is against the rules of the TWC you should understand that calling people out is not healthy for the forum and this thread in general do you understand?

At this point we all know from the media that under Donald "literally hitler" Trump, the jewish populace are being prosecuted by the alt-right who uses the pepe to push his racist/xenophobic agenda against people of all races and identities (which includes the chosen ones)

Do you want to have blood in your hands for causing another shoah for letting Donald "literally hitler" Trump roam free and letting this anti-Semitic speech being spread through the internet? Small words are just the beginning of a bigger shoah...

See, see? the EB team has a Semitic "expert" who refuses to acknowledge the fact that Punic is supposed to be hebrew as hebrew was the original language of the middle-east.. This level of historical revisionism is getting out of hand and this is just a beginning of the persecution of the chosen peoples... plz report the devs to the JIDF asap OP this

**Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ** · January 15, 2017, 10:23 AM

Well, we don't know anything about Punic or Phoenician, they're long dead languages without any traces left for us to attempt even a superficial language reconstruction. In order to do this one must have access to extremely scarce materials not publicly available.

Just kidding!!!

https://www.amazon.com/Phoenician-Punic-Handbook-Oriental-Handbuch-Orientalistik/dp/9004117717

https://www.amazon.com/Grammar-Phoen...HEMZYD1CGEX77Z

https://www.amazon.com/Linguistic-St...HEMZYD1CGEX77Z

**Nilash** · January 15, 2017, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by The excited one

Calling me out for :wub:ing is against the rules of the TWC you should understand that calling people out is not healthy for the forum and this thread in general do you understand?

At this point we all know from the media that under Donald "literally hitler" Trump, the jewish populace are being prosecuted by the alt-right who uses the pepe to push his racist/xenophobic agenda against people of all races and identities (which includes the chosen ones)

Do you want to have blood in your hands for causing another shoah for letting Donald "literally hitler" Trump roam free and letting this anti-Semitic speech being spread through the internet? Small words are just the beginning of a bigger shoah...

See, see? the EB team has a Semitic "expert" who refuses to acknowledge the fact that Punic is supposed to be hebrew as hebrew was the original language of the middle-east.. This level of historical revisionism is getting out of hand and this is just a beginning of the persecution of the chosen peoples... plz report the devs to the JIDF asap OP this

**Moros** · January 15, 2017, 11:46 AM

You might actually be right sorry. We have someone who has been correcting them, but they might not have made it in your or the current build yet or only partly. Either way it's safe to say that our punic, aramaic, safaitic and Sabaic will be made to be correct as possible as far as possible and will always be an ongoing process. Personally I can only comment or respond at much detail on the Arabian front, but further questions can be directed at Ethelwulf who is the one doing the translations and corrections for the Semitic factions.

Also please guys let's refrain from such aggressiveness, Nilash raised a genuine concern nothing more.

**Nilash** · January 15, 2017, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Moros

You might actually be right sorry. We have someone who has been correcting them, but they might not have made it in your or the current build yet or only partly. Either way it's safe to say that our punic, aramaic, safaitic and Sabaic will be made to be correct as possible as far as possible and will always be an ongoing process. Personally I can only comment or respond at much detail on the Arabian front, but further questions can be directed at Ethelwulf who is the one doing the translations and corrections for the Semitic factions.

Also please guys let's refrain from such aggressiveness, Nilash raised a genuine concern nothing more.

Thank you. I was just trying to help.
My offer still stands. If my help is needed I'll gladly be at your service.

**Cohors_Evocata** · January 16, 2017, 12:34 PM

My apologies about not responding sooner after checking back internally. Let's just say that several EB voicemods... leave things to be desired. The good news is that we've finally begun work on that front again (though not on the Punic one). There has been some progress in updating various aspects of Semetic linguistics in the mod, including unit names for various Numidian (for whom we've used Punic by lack of other options, proto-Berber is even less easily available or reconstructed than Punic I believe) and Carthaginians. Dunno if that's been released yet, a good way to test is to check if the name for the Early Numidian Infantry has been changed to "Noshei-Romah Mashliyim" yet.

Originally Posted by Nilash

Thank you. I was just trying to help.
My offer still stands. If my help is needed I'll gladly be at your service.

This might actually be rather opportune if you can speak Hebrew and are capable of doing your own voice recordings, cuz' that'd mean we might be able to at least record the new unit names correctly (which will very likely directions on pronunciation deviating from modern Hebrew, mind). Would you be interested in that? I'd have to check back if that's a front we want to open right now, but I definitely see options here.

And guys, TWC has a "political mudpit" subforum for discussion about modern politics. Please take your discussion over there if you're keen on continuing it.

**Moros** · January 20, 2017, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Nilash

Thank you. I was just trying to help.
My offer still stands. If my help is needed I'll gladly be at your service.

I'll forward your offer to the team and to ethelwulf who's actually in charge of this.

Edit: yes, numidian has proven very difficult and is almost unattested. One of the few units we've yet been able to name are the numidian nobles, for whom it was impossible to vocalise the name. Unless I'm outdated again, as per the my earlier mistake. (my activity and presence has been low the last year or so due to work and RL)