Terror Attack in Germany: 12 killed at Christmas Market in Berlin

[Copperknickers II]

Breaking news, but seems certain this is a deliberate terror attack, all the hallmarks of the Nice attack. Driver has fled the scene, reports that he had weapons in the cab. He is still on the run. More fatalities very likely. RIP. As it happens I will be going to live in Berlin next year, very disconcerting.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ger...-idUKKBN148289

This is of course dreadful news and my heart goes out to the victims' family, but as this is the Mudpit, we must think about the political angle: a presidential election coming up next year in Germany and a populist revolt sweeping the Western world, and also the first ever major terror attack in Germany (not including the Munich Olympics which was an attack against Israelis not Germany itself). This has the potential to change things very significantly not just for Germany but also for the EU. I sincerely hope this turns out not to be a migrant, as that could have very severe consequences indeed given the exodus of Aleppo requiring more than ever a redoubled effort to get the victims of IS into a safe haven. The victims of IS certainly includes hundreds of Europeans, but we must not forget this is just a tiny spillover from the ocean of bloodshed against the innocent ordinary Muslims in the Middle East.

EDIT: and news coming in now that a man has entered a mosque in Switzerland and opened fire on Muslims. Unclear if this was in response to the Berlin attack, it remains to be seen (could be a Shia mosque of course and might be coordinated with the Turkey attack and Berlin attack, but that's wild speculation).

[Roma_Victrix]

I posted this link in the refugee thread: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-lorry-9486771

One death confirmed thus far, unknown amount of people have been wounded.

[Phier]

9 dead on one report.

Merry Christmas Germany.

Edit: Reports are driver captured, passenger killed.

[tgoodenow]

This sucks that people died.

[Humble Warrior]

Damn. This is seriously being a crappy Christmas for everyone.

And I have a horrible feeling it`s not anything like over yet. Might be a good idea not to go anywhere fun and public over the Christmas period, people.

[Iskar]

Let's drop the disruptive one-liners with snarky comments about betting on the assailant's nationality or religion, shall we?
If you do not have anything substantial to add to the discussion I suggest you refrain from derailing it with such posts, lest you are craving for an infraction for "disruptive posting".

Furthermore, comments or questions regarding deleted posts belong in the ModCom thread or in a PM to a moderator.

Thank you.

[bigdaddy1204]

Another horrible incident. It's awful! Why can't they just leave all people of the world alone. This is too depressing. These poor people are just trying to enjoy a Christmas market. These attacks spread fear everywhere. My sympathy to the victims and their families.

In political terms, the impact of this is highly predictable. It's likely to increase support for right wing parties in Germany. With the election coming up soon, it will further undermine Merkel and give support to the neo-Nazi style parties that are already gaining ground in Europe. It's really frightening. Society has shown a real weakness to these kind of terrorist attacks and their impact is vast. Worst case scenario, more attacks like this could cause western society to fatally undermine itself, allowing the far-right to take over and inflict a new Dark Age that will take us back to the worst horrors of 1945. I dearly hope my fears do not come true.

[Basil II the B.S]

ISIS claims responsibility for Berlin Christmas market attack


Then again they do it every time, even when there's little evidence it was one of their associates.

[bigdaddy1204]

ISIS claims responsibility for Berlin Christmas market attack

Then again they do it every time, even when there's little evidence it was one of their associates.

May these ISIS dogs be removed from the face of the earth.
If we really want to stop these kind of attacks, more needs to be done to stop Saudi funding of this dangerous ideology.
Furthermore, George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq in 2003 created the conditions for ISIS to thrive. He should bear some of the responsibility for this. He should be taken to court to face justice.

[IronBrig4]

I don't think this was committed by a refugee. Probably another young, second-generation Iraqi immigrant who got radicalized online. That's what happened last week when a 12-year-old unsuccessfully tried to bomb another Christmas market.

[B. W.]

I don't think this was committed by a refugee. Probably another young, second-generation Iraqi immigrant who got radicalized online. That's what happened last week when a 12-year-old unsuccessfully tried to bomb another Christmas market.

All the more reason to keep the first generation from getting there in the first place.

[pajomife]

The truck owner said that lost contact with driver this afternoon. Maybe a highjack.

[DaVinci]

It's not confirmed as terror attack. Although all circumstances speak for it.

reports that he had weapons in the cab

No, not true.

Saying this as German, who apparently has more close info about official news.

[Copperknickers II]

All the more reason to keep the first generation from getting there in the first place.

Not a good reason at all. The first generation in this instance happen to be largely refugees who we are bound by law to provide with asylum (both actual law and also the law of basic human decency, seeing as the war in Syria is largely the fault of Western countries).

No, not true.

It is true that there are reports of weapons in the cab. The reports may not be true, of course.

Saying this as German, who apparently has more close info about official news.

In fairness, we all have access to official German news sources, since any news network worth its salt has German speakers and Berlin residents working for them, my own sources (the BBC and Reuters) certainly not excepted.

[DaVinci]

Not a good reason at all. The first generation in this instance happen to be largely refugees who we are bound by law to provide with asylum (both actual law and also the law of basic human decency, seeing as the war in Syria is largely the fault of Western countries).



It is true that there are reports of weapons in the cab. The reports may not be true, of course.



In fairness, we all have access to official German news sources, since any news network worth its salt has German speakers and Berlin residents working for them, my own sources (the BBC and Reuters) certainly not excepted.

Bold part. Says something of the quality of your news sources. And is quasi the response to your latter statement.

P.S. I didn't mean, the reports about weapons are untrue whereas unknown to me. Just the info about weapons is untrue, no word about it in official sources.


Common statement: We will see, what police will investigate and officially will report. Until this happens, hotheads of TWC may hold their feet still.

[Copperknickers II]

Bold part. Says something of the quality of your news sources.

Nothing to do with quality, it's about priorities. Most people want to know about the reports and rumours of a news story, not only things which have been officially confirmed. Common sense dictates that officially confirmed news, while reliable, is also likely to only confirm things we already suspect because they have been reported beforehand as uncomfirmed reports. Perhaps Germans prefer 'official' news, but I'd say it's a pretty low quality news source which only reports official news. The general British consensus is to have a balance of official reports and confirmed reports and not to jump to conclusions. And then you have the conservative American and Russian consensus, which is to only report conspiracy theories and ignore the official version of events completely.

P.S. I didn't mean, the reports about weapons are untrue whereas unknown to me. Just the info about weapons is untrue, no word about it in official sources.

If there's no word about it then how do you know it's not true?

Common statement: We will see, what police will investigate and officially will report. Until this happens, hotheads of TWC may hold their feet still.

Very well. You can come back to this thread in a week's time when you have the official police reports. Just don't be surprised if we already know all of it because, surprisingly enough, 'official reports' are just people saying things, which is the same source as 'unofficial reports'. Some unofficial reports come from people who are extremely well informed, it's obviously up to the intelligent consumer of news media to sort the wheat from the chaff.

[DaVinci]

Nothing to do with quality, it's about priorities. Most people want to know about the reports and rumours of a news story, not only things which have been officially confirmed. Common sense dictates that officially confirmed news, while reliable, is also likely to only confirm things we already suspect because they have been reported beforehand as uncomfirmed reports. Perhaps Germans prefer 'official' news, but I'd say it's a pretty low quality news source which only reports official news. The general British consensus is to have a balance of official reports and confirmed reports and not to jump to conclusions. And then you have the conservative American and Russian consensus, which is to only report conspiracy theories and ignore the official version of events completely.



If there's no word about it then how do you know it's not true?



Very well. You can come back to this thread in a week's time when you have the official police reports. Just don't be surprised if we already know all of it because, surprisingly enough, 'official reports' are just people saying things, which is the same source as 'unofficial reports'. Some unofficial reports come from people who are extremely well informed, it's obviously up to the intelligent consumer of news media to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Possibly we have different definitions of official sources.

Official news sources = from police or ministerium of inner affaires or likewise speakers of state instititions

News sources = from all other not mentioned above

What you make out of it is your and everyones thing, not mine. I wait on official news along my definition.
And that's why i stepped by, into this thread initiated by you, causing typical comments.

[Pinarius]

This is of course dreadful news and my heart goes out to the victims' family, but as this is the Mudpit, we must think about the political angle: a presidential election coming up next year in Germany and a populist revolt sweeping the Western world, and also the first ever major terror attack in Germany (not including the Munich Olympics which was an attack against Israelis not Germany itself).

Erm, Oktoberfest bombing in 1980 shouldn't be forgotten.

[Papay]

The driver of the truck(not the man who threw the truck on the crowd)is Polish. The truck might have been hijhacked but lets wait a bit. Some days ago a man was recorded throwing a woman down the stairs in Berlin. All far right news rushed to claim he was "muslim immigrant" and it was proved that he was Bulgarian.

[Phier]

The current rumor is the dead guy in the truck was the polish driver and that he was hijacked.

My wifes grandfather flew his 50 missions as a bomber navigator in WWII over Axis territory (my immediate family all fought in the pacific). It seems rather sad to me that I'm going to be hoping a far right government wins in Germany to end this madness.